Almost lost a wheel

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72bluNblu said:
Hey I’ve done the same. I know better now, but I certainly haven’t always.

My point is only that people blame the spacers, but, I would bet in a lot of those cases the spacers weren’t to blame as much as maintenance.

It’s definitely a consideration, with the spacer/adaptors you’ve got twice as many lug nuts to maintain torque on. More parts means more things to go wrong. But all things being equal, the spacers are safe if properly maintained even if it’s more work to do that.
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I have seen some billet spacers/adapters over the years. I would assume they need to have torque checked also, but do you think they would be better than the ones that look like they are made out of cast pot metal?
 
33IMP said:
Not really, I think the hub would be too hard to tap by hand. I was just kinda assuming the splines in the 7/16 studs would be big enough (and MAYBE the same) to substitute a 1/2 stud with the same spline size.
Well you know what happens when you assume. I guess if it was that easy, it would have been done, many times, and there'd probably be a sticky. lol.
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i tossed the studs, but the hub i have measures .540(ish) on the hole.

some 1/2" studs i have kicking around obviously fit thru the hole no probs, so yeah it's feasible.

poking around on dorman's site i came across some 1/2-20 studs for mid 70's ferd, lincon & merc that have a .545 knurl, but seem pretty short at 1-3/4" and the shoulder length might be excessive, preventing the drum from seating. but i'm guessing it could work in a pinch. maybe.

the other option would be for gluttons of punishment: drill out the hubs to accept a more common knurl size and go that route...
 
harrisonm said:
I have seen some billet spacers/adapters over the years. I would assume they need to have torque checked also, but do you think they would be better than the ones that look like they are made out of cast pot metal?
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I made my own spacers when I was working. Steel on one car, billet 6061 at a half inch thick on another. Both drilled to fit nicely on the axle hub. 3 in screw-in studs in one car, 3in spline studs on the other.
I would not use the cast aluminum spacers with 15 or 20 lug holes in them.
I check torque on them before every race.
 
72bluNblu said:
Yes sir, all good points. Nobody has to like them or run them, I myself prefer not to have them. They do add complexity, twice as many lug nuts to maintain torque on. But that's totally different than saying that all of them, regardless of quality, are unsafe or even dangerous.
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I believe we're 100% on the same page here.
 
@junkyardhero - I'm certainly guilty of the "temporary use" thought process regarding adapter use. It's now been five years an approx 80K miles of use on this vehicle.
 
This is an Adapter not a spacer although it does create space. Spacers are safer than adaptors.. Never use adapters for the very reason you discovered .
Do a proper BBP axle swap, it’s the safe way to go. If your making any kind of decent HP get 1/2” long studs .
 
72bluNblu said:
You properly torqued them on install, which is great. But did you re-torque them again within 100 miles? Did you check them again after that? Because like any new wheel install, that’s required.

Spacers are no different than aluminum wheels. They’re supposed to be torqued at regular intervals.

I bought a new trailer earlier this year. Steel rims mind you. Before I left the lot I watched them torque all of the lug nuts to spec with a torque wrench, at their request. Then I had to sign a waiver saying I would check the torque again at 100 miles. No **** (I’m guessing some knucklehead tried to sue them). My drive home was more than 100 miles, but I wasn’t pulling off the freeway to torque lug nuts.

But you know what? When I checked them after I got home, a handful of lug nuts between the dual axles needed more torque. I literally watched the guy at the trailer dealer torque them to spec, heard the torque wrench click. They weren’t loose, but, they weren’t at spec anymore either. And that is why there are mileage intervals to check torque on new wheels. And that goes for new spacers too. If you don’t follow the torque check schedule, well, you haven’t installed and maintained them properly.

People blame the spacers, but I’d be willing to bet that the install/maintenance is the issue 99.9% of the time.
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There is a reason for torque specs. I have use front wheel spacers on my B300 Van for over 50 years and never had a problem. In all fairness, they were only 1/2" spacers and installed with the wheel threads only. They were 8 bolt wheels. I needed the clearance from 16.5" wheels to 15" for my 50 T/A's.
 
Thank you all for the comments. Adapters are not, and never have been, my first choice. But it can be difficult to justify the cost of a BBP upgrade to a car that has limited value and desirability in the marketplace. A car that I've been trying to sell since the day after I purchased it.

At a minimum I would suggest to other early "A" owners who still have L.H. lugs on their cars to switch them out to R.H. lugs so you can use the larger conical seat lug nuts provided with the adapters if you do decide to use adapters. As well as proper torqueing and even a bit of locktite on threads. Car is back together with above minimum changes detailed above. Drove 100 mi. yesterday to car show and back without incident. I've been averaging 18K miles per year on this car so I'll make an effort to update thread as I get more miles accumulated on repair.
 
seems we've lost the folks at the back. we're talking about adapters not spacers

spacers ≠ adapters

spacers are fine to run (within reason) and should also maintain a rigorous torque schedule. but adapters are a whole different matter.
 
Out of the box, what 's the possibility of redrilling the hubs and drums for 1/2"-20 studs and adding the adaptors to the door stop collection?
 
junkyardhero said:
seems we've lost the folks at the back. we're talking about adapters not spacers

spacers ≠ adapters

spacers are fine to run (within reason) and should also maintain a rigorous torque schedule. but adapters are a whole different matter.
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No, they are in fact not a different matter at all. If both sets of lug nuts are torqued properly, it makes no difference. Read the article from post #59.
 
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junkyardhero said:
i am operating from a position of pendantry and will not be swayed.

good day sir!
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Lol! Ok, fair enough, they are not in fact the same thing.

But for either one in practice, if you torque them properly and check them at proper intervals they are perfectly safe.
 
I read the info banzaibullit submitted from Maximum Motorsports. It does seel to describe spacers which use the same lug studs as the wheel. My adapters bolt to the existing drum/axle and have five additional lugs that the wheel bolts to. My question is if an adapter has the same lug pattern for both the mounting holes and the lug studs is it classified as an adapter or a fancy spacer ?
Agreed with Maximum Motorsports statements regarding proper torqueing.
 
72bluNblu said:
Lol! Ok, fair enough, they are not in fact the same thing.

But for either one in practice, if you torque them properly and check them at proper intervals they are perfectly safe.
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I SAID GOOD DAY SIR!

but yeah, the point stands, either are fine if used properly-- which means keeping a maintenance schedule that includes torque checks. which, most people don't...
 
valiantpatrol said:
I read the info banzaibullit submitted from Maximum Motorsports. It does seel to describe spacers which use the same lug studs as the wheel. My adapters bolt to the existing drum/axle and have five additional lugs that the wheel bolts to. My question is if an adapter has the same lug pattern for both the mounting holes and the lug studs is it classified as an adapter or a fancy spacer ?
Agreed with Maximum Motorsports statements regarding proper torqueing.
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I mean if the bolt pattern doesn't change it's not adapting anything right?

That's how these things get confused. But if you look at the breakdown in the Maximum Motorsports article, it really doesn't make a difference (there is one extra consideration). If you have an adaptor or a spacer, if the lug nuts are properly torqued and maintained at that torque then there really isn't much difference.

If you apply the physics that the MM article covers, there is only one thing that changes between a plain old spacer and an adapter with its own studs. The material of the adapter has to be strong enough to support the studs it carries (just like the hub), because you're bolting the adapter to the hub and the wheel to the adapter. Once everything is tight, well, all the same principles apply.

The only reason it's worth mentioning at all is because of those crappy, cast adaptors that used to be out there for the 5x4 to 5x4.5" switch. They were only like 3/4" thick, and cast out of cheap metal. Lots of pictures of those that are cracked, and that's because the base material of the adaptor isn't strong enough to carry those studs long term. If you use a quality billet adaptor it's not an issue at all.
 
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