Alternatives to KYB?

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oldskool

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My 68 Cuda's running KYB4509 and KYB5511 shocks on a pretty stock set up. Up front I've got BFG 215 70R14 and in back I've got 255 60R15. I checked the old receipts from the previous owner and looks like these were bought in 2002. I can't say how much it was driven since then (I've only had it a month so far).

The ride is pretty harsh to say the least and I'm slowly making my way through the car to improve the ride since this is now my commuter. It's meant as a driver, not a racer so I'd like it to feel as such though I don't want to drive a boat. The majority of the stock suspension was replaced/rebuilt so I'm not too worried about that just yet.

Before I run out and just replace the same shocks, any KYB alternatives that I can try w/o making any mods to my current setup? Thanks in advance. My lower back will thank you.
 
Bilsteins @ Firmfeel and only $400 for a set plus shipping..

Yet RustyRatRod Rob told me just the other day, not to waste my monies on any shock that is not totally hand adjustable isn't worth the extra $$$.
 
Before I started tearing my Dart apart, it had an all stock suspension, with worn out bushings, and some new Bilstein's I put on. I was running a 205/75/14 all the way around and it was a great ride.
 
I have KYB's on rebuilt (stock level) cuda and I hate the ride. Will Bilsteins help me too? Are monroe matics better for my setup?
 
HotLines said:
Bilsteins @ Firmfeel and only $400 for a set plus shipping..

Yet RustyRatRod Rob told me just the other day, not to waste my monies on any shock that is not totally hand adjustable isn't worth the extra $$$.
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Hahahahahaha!
 
for what its worth i had kyb on the duster.i thought it was harsh.put on some monroes and it was mushy.went back to the kyb
 
Saetun said:
Daily driver? Go Monro-Matics
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Sure, if you don't mind changing them every 500 miles or so. Within a couple years you'll have spent more than a set of good shocks anyway.

If you're actually driving daily, your car should be set up as a mild autocross car IMO. Better brakes, better suspension than stock. You'll need it if you want to keep your sheetmetal straight. With the way people drive now, and the performance of even your basic econo-boxes (especially braking), you need better than stock handling performance just to stay out of trouble. Good shocks are a bigger part of that equation than a lot of people think.

That's just my opinion, but its based on 50k+ combined miles in my Challenger and Duster, daily driving in California.

72BBSwinger said:
Bilsteins are great Fox's are awesome.
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Exactly so. The Bilsteins are great shocks. Fox's are better, especially for big torsion bars.
 
I was running KYB's on the front with 0.87 bars and now still with 1" bars.
The must profound change in ride-quality was exchanging the poly UCA's with rubber Moog Offset bushings. This alone took away 70% of the harshness at potholes and large speedbumps.

I have ordered a pair of Hotchkis Adjustable shocks for the front, but I'm really hoping they will provide a '4 bills' upgrade to the car compared to the KYB's... But to be honest, I still have my doubts.
 
BigBlockMopar said:
I was running KYB's on the front with 0.87 bars and now still with 1" bars.
The must profound change in ride-quality was exchanging the poly UCA's with rubber Moog Offset bushings. This alone took away 70% of the harshness at potholes and large speedbumps.

I have ordered a pair of Hotchkis Adjustable shocks for the front, but I'm really hoping they will provide a '4 bills' upgrade to the car compared to the KYB's... But to be honest, I still have my doubts.
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You won't be disappointed with the Hotchkis adjustables. The KYB's are even more awful than you think. I swapped from KYB's to Bilstein RCD's on my Challenger, the difference is night and day. Even changing from the Bilsteins to Hotchkis (fox) non-adjustable shocks on my Duster was noticeable. If you noticed changing from poly UCA bushings to rubber, the KYB to Hotchkis shock change will be like buying a new car.
 
The KYBs have a lot of gas pressure which contributes to the harshness. Bilsteins have a lower pressure.

I bought KYBs to put on my 67 Cuda but after feeling how stiff they were and then measuring the gas load I decided to not use them and bought Bilsteins. Besides new shocks I put Firmfeel .94 torsion bars on the front and new 6 leaf springs on the rear.

I'm really happy with how my car rides and handles now, good control in cornering and a firm, but not harsh ride quality.
 
I've thought long and hard about getting 'better' shocks, mainly because I'm not really 'sick' of the KYB's and I think they are doing OK on a daily use.
But then again, I've never felt 'better' shocks on an old car before.

I could have gone with non-adjustable shocks , but that would always leave that nagging question in my head about wondering if I should have gotten the adjustable shocks.

About the torsion bars... I'm at 1" from JustSuspension, but I think I would really like a 1.06" aswell.
 
BigBlockMopar said:
I've thought long and hard about getting 'better' shocks, mainly because I'm not really 'sick' of the KYB's and I think they are doing OK on a daily use.
But then again, I've never felt 'better' shocks on an old car before.

I could have gone with non-adjustable shocks , but that would always leave that nagging question in my head about wondering if I should have gotten the adjustable shocks.

About the torsion bars... I'm at 1" from JustSuspension, but I think I would really like a 1.06" aswell.
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I thought the 1" bars from JustSuspension were a little on the soft side as well. I had them on my Duster for a bit but went up to Firm Feel's 1.12" bars. I love them, and the ride with the Hotchkis non-adjustable shocks is still great, even with 18" rims. The 1.06" bars should be about 50 lbs/in lighter than the 1.12" bars, but also that much stiffer than the 1" bars, so they'd be a great compromise between handling and comfort I think. I'll probably be running a set on my EL5 GT, its going to be a little more "user friendly" than my Duster.

I'm very happy with the Hotchkis non-adjustable shocks. I've found in the past that I typically end up adjusting stuff like that fairly close to the middle of the range and then never touching it again. Kinda defeats the purpose of having adjustables. If I were racing it might be a different story, being able to tune the shocks for different tracks would be a big advantage. But I don't do enough competitions to make it useful enough to buy them. And because I got my Hotchkis non-adjustables 2nd hand from a guy upgrading to adjustables the price difference was even bigger.
 
BigBlockMopar said:
The must profound change in ride-quality was exchanging the poly UCA's with rubber Moog Offset bushings. This alone took away 70% of the harshness at potholes and large speedbumps.
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Do you mean the Universal Sway Bar Bushings? Forgive my newb-ness, I'm not well versed in suspension.

My issue is mostly potholes and speedbumps so I'm looking at exactly the same fix.
 
oldskool said:
Do you mean the Universal Sway Bar Bushings? Forgive my newb-ness, I'm not well versed in suspension.

My issue is mostly potholes and speedbumps so I'm looking at exactly the same fix.
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He's talking about the bushings that go into your Upper Control Arms (top A arm) and connect to the body. The offset bushings are rubber and give you a bit more caster IIRC.
 
How harsh are we really talking here with KYB shocks.
 
Rubber UCA bushings do a good job of insulating every crack and pebble from the floor and steering wheel. The lowers do too, I have neither, but my wasnt built for comfort.
 
1) I found a Hotchkiss kit on Summit. Are these the Hotchkiss you guys are referring to?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hss-79020015/overview/year/1968/make/plymouth/model/barracuda

2) There's a cost delta between the Bilstein's and Hotchkiss. I'm already coming from KYB. Is the change in ride worth the increase from Bilstein to Hotchkiss?

3) I checked my UCA bushings and they pretty good. They have been swapped by the prev owner. Is it worth it changing those to Moog if I'm changing the shocks? My mech's doing the work, not me, so I'll be paying for the labor if I want them changed. Just trying to determine if it's worth the labor cost to swap 'em.

This is my daily driver as of a month ago. As the ride's pretty harsh, I'm willing to do what makes sense to smooth it out. I'm not against spending some money if the difference is obvious.
 
Yup, those are the Hotchkis shocks. Those are the non-adjustable version, just like the set I have on my Duster.

I only bought the Hotchkis shocks because I had a chance to pick up a set second hand for a pretty good price. I was pretty happy with the Bilsteins. I did notice a difference going from the Bilsteins to the Hotchkis shocks, and it was an improvement, but the Bilsteins worked well enough that I still recommend them. Especially if you're not going to go really huge with the torsion bars. But it was definitely a noticeable improvement.

As far as the UCA bushings, the Moog 7103 offset bushings allow for more caster, which makes it easier to get more modern alignment #'s. It shouldn't change the ride quality a bunch, but using more modern alignment numbers definitely improves handling, so it does improve the overall experience. By more modern alignment specs I mean in the ballpark of -.5* camber, +3 caster, and 1/16" to 1/8" toe in.
 
Cool. At this point, I'm leaning towards the Bilsteins. Seeing as PST appears to have a forum discount which would make the pricing attractive.
 
oldskool said:
Cool. At this point, I'm leaning towards the Bilsteins. Seeing as PST appears to have a forum discount which would make the pricing attractive.
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You could also get their 1.03" torsion bars. Less $$$ than Firm Feel's 1.06's, and a discount. Only thing is they STILL haven't published their wheel rate for the 1.03" bars. I'm sure it falls somewhere between the 1" JS bars and the FFI 1.06's, but it would still be nice to know what it is. I'd get them in a heartbeat if they proved to be somewhat close to the 1.06" bars (252 lb/in) and would skip them if they were any less than 225 lb/in.
 
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