alum edelbrock heads

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So with a non radical cam you can just bolt rhe heads and stock rockers on and measure for pushrods with an adjustable measuring pushrod. Use the manufacturers specs for preload, bolt it all up carefully and you'll be good to go.

I also ran ootb eddy heads for over seven years before I got them ported. They ran awesome for me.
 
You would be waaay better off IMO to bump up the Scr with zero deck or better pistons, and leave every thing else stock, than to leave those pistons down in the hole, and thumperize it.
Sure you will gain a wee bit in Scr with the smaller chambers, but with the Eddies sucking heat out of the chambers, and with the thumper stealing Dcr,the net Dcr will be so low that the bottom-end torque will all but disappear.You might gain a few hp after 4000 or 4500, but getting there will be LAZY, and just where is the bulk of street driving done? Certainly not above 4500rpm. Unless you put a hi-stall in it and some gears(more money),Lazy will it be. Sooner or later you will be so frustrated, that the pistons will find there way in there, or you will go crazy. Why not just get it over with now.

Heres a ferinstance;
New pistons .005 out of the hole with 5cc eyebrows, Stock iron heads with a clean-up cut,.039 gasket,a 262 cam with the intake opening set to 55*ATDC. This works out to about a total chamber volume of 80.5, and a 10.2 Scr, and a 8.2Dcr. This with the .034 tight quench will smoke 295s for a very long time.
Now lets work the Eddies;
pistons down .125 no eyebrows,aluminum heads at 65cc, same .039 gasket,same 262 cam, same 55*ICP. This works out to a TOTAL chamber volume of 99.5, a Scr of 8.45, and a Dcr of 7.23, but wait the al heads suck another .5 to 1.0 out of that, so that might leave you with as little as 6.5Dcr. That is out of the gate LAZY.
So, those attractively priced heads, with the stock pistons under them, will do nothing but slow you down. But you are welcome to prove the math, and prove me wrong.
 
I built a .020 360 with KB107 pistons @ zero deck.
Hughes solid cam & springs.
OTB Eddys.
Stock crank & stock 340 rods (floating pins).
Externally balanced it.

Ran a best of 11.50 in 1973 Dart Sport in full street trim with 9" slicks.

3:91 gear & 9.5" convertor.

That 360 comes alive with some compression.
 
I wouldnt mind slappin in some pistons at this time but the $$$ for machine is just not there right now. Im looking to get it back in the car right now safely and when winter comes i can kick some more money into it. I have about 2500-3000 to throw at it right now. Idk what to do
 
Mopar
You got any spare heads at all kicking around. I once put an entire 318 2bbl top end on an LC 340, with the 340 springs.What a blast.At least until 5000 or so. Just saying.
If you plan to zero deck it,grab the Eddies now, and just drive it.BUT NO CAM.

Got another one for ya.
From my previous post with the Eddies; Total combustion chamber volume of 99.5, stock type cam with a (Im guessing) ICP of 40*ATDC, Scr comes to about 8.45, and the Dcr to about 7.8.Which might run something like 7.2 with aluminum. Not blazingly strong but not that lazy either, and probably still better than with the iron heads, or at least not worse.
I just wanted you to realize that the heads by themselves,with no other changes, wont win you any races.
If you have to buy heads regardless, then the Eddies is the way Id go.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Mopar
You got any spare heads at all kicking around. I once put an entire 318 2bbl top end on an LC 340, with the 340 springs.What a blast.At least until 5000 or so. Just saying.
If you plan to zero deck it,grab the Eddies now, and just drive it.BUT NO CAM.

Got another one for ya.
From my previous post with the Eddies; Total combustion chamber volume of 99.5, stock type cam with a (Im guessing) ICP of 40*ATDC, Scr comes to about 8.45, and the Dcr to about 7.8.Which might run something like 7.2 with aluminum. Not blazingly strong but not that lazy either, and probably still better than with the iron heads, or at least not worse.
I just wanted you to realize that the heads by themselves,with no other changes, wont win you any races.
If you have to buy heads regardless, then the Eddies is the way Id go.
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Thats what im thinking at this point. Then i am already that much further ahead and have room for improvement. Could u suggest a mild bump stick i can swap to right now though. I dont like the looks of the lobes on this cam and would rather just have a fresh one in it and lifters. Idk what to do about pushrods either. Would it just be a stock set or are they different with the eddys?
 
I would be thinking about some cam advance to help with the low CR for the 'interim' setup with the Edelbrock heads and the present pistons set up. Get a timing setup on this first go-round so you can set cam timing now and in the future revisions. IMO, don't mess with the carb you have at this point, to help low end response.

I assume by 'thumper' cam you mean one with a lopey idle....not a good idea with the low CR setup as it sounds like you are figuring out. Noise does not always equal speed or power. Personally, for the street, I'd look for LSA of 110 or even 112, and duration no more than 262 or 256 range. Lift .500 or less to keep it simple on the springs and valvetrain setup.

Do you have info on the springs and any rockers that are on these heads you are considering?

BTW, AJ and others, when you say lower DCR with AL heads, I presume you mean the AL heads have the effect on reducing detonation tendencies the same an iron head with lower DCR, is that right?
 
nm9stheham said:
I assume by 'thumper' cam you mean one with a lopey idle....not a good idea with the low CR setup as it sounds like you are figuring out. Noise does not always equal speed or power. Personally, for the street, I'd look for LSA of 110 or even 112, and duration no more than 262 or 256 range. Lift .500 or less to keep it simple on the springs and valvetrain setup.
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x2

My father put the muther thumper cam in his street rod truck. It miserable. SOunds like a top fuel dragster. But to drive it around...miserable. My cam is the same at .050 and the same lift but LSA 112. Huge difference.
 
Im not sure on the springs that are in the eddy heads. I know they are stainless valve. He bought them for a 340 and later found out they wouldnt work so he never used them. I like that size cam grind u mentioned. Ive been researching them alot. So if i do the small cam and eddy heads for this year, that leaves me a little room in the bank for some engine cooling and maybe some ignition. Any input in those departments guys? Thanks for all your help guys. Ive been wrenching my whole life of 28 years but ive never gotten into motors this deep. I have the common sense. I just need the knowlege now and you guys are teaching me alot in a hurry
 
cant sleep?lol
If you put a cam in it any bigger than what you have now, you will lose low-speed torque.
A high mileage cam, can look like crap, but run just fine.Im guessing the front of the engine is still off. And so are the heads,right? So pull one lifter out, and look at the bottom side.Is it still flat,or nearly so, with just a wee tiny cup.That will run fine til winter. Check them all,one at a time.Each lifter has to go back where it came from.Generally,if the lifters are good,then so is the cam.But if you find one or two that are severally dished,well then it becomes a judgement call.Do you want to spend a couple of hundred on something you are just gonna shelve in 6 months or less?
Well heres an idea;
If you are less interested in mph at the big end, and more interested in low speed(city) to mid rpm performance,You could stick a custom cam in there, for just a few bucks more.This cam would have a short period like the stocker, but fast-rate lobes,and as much lift as the cam-grinder can give you, to a maximum of what the heads will support,and ground on a fairly wide LDA.A cam like this would probably have a fairly low operating range.But I can see it being a bit of a tractor.Which,I,for one would like to experiment with. With those Eddies having large valves and higher lift capacity, you may as well exploit that.This is somewhat counter-intuitive thinking, but if you need a cam, or just want a cam, then this is what I would do.And if it turns out you like it, it will be even stronger with higher compression,perhaps to the point of requiring premium fuel under high load/wot conditions. But that can be dealt with later.There are possible ways around that.

BTW, AJ and others, when you say lower DCR with AL heads, I presume you mean the AL heads have the effect (of) reducing detonation tendencies,(to) the same (as) an iron head with (a)lower DCR, is that right?
Quote edited.
Yes, to some extent. The aluminum heads suck heat out of the chambers,and deliver it to the cooling system,and the surrounding underhood air--big time.When I originally put my combo together, It was 11.2Scr,9.2Dcr, and ran 87E10 full load WOT, without detonation at 32 to 35*timing. I quickly found out that on the street,MY a$$dyno couldnt tell the difference in output anywhere in that range, so it has run on the low end most of its life(32/34*). To exploit this effect, I have always run a 205*stat. The heads do require a longer than normal warm-up time tho.I combat that with a fat idle circuit and PLENTY of advance in the Vcan. I think the effect varies with load.
This would not be possible with iron heads, which seem to top the Dcr out around 8.5 on 87, 8.8on 91, and tickling 9 on 93 (from what I have gathered here from members). And with timing limited in some cases.
 
AJ/FormS said:
BTW, AJ and others, when you say lower DCR with AL heads, I presume you mean the AL heads have the effect (of) reducing detonation tendencies,(to) the same (as) an iron head with (a)lower DCR, is that right?

Yes, to some extent. The aluminum heads suck heat out of the chambers,and deliver it to the cooling system,and the surrounding underhood air--big time.When I originally put my combo together, It was 11.2Scr,9.2Dcr, and ran 87E10 full load WOT, without detonation at 32 to 35*timing. I quickly found out that on the street,MY a$$dyno couldnt tell the difference in output anywhere in that range, so it has run on the low end most of its life(32/34*). To exploit this effect, I have always run a 205*stat. The heads do require a longer than normal warm-up time tho.I combat that with a fat idle circuit and PLENTY of advance in the Vcan. I think the effect varies with load.
This would not be possible with iron heads, which seem to top the Dcr out around 8.5 on 87, 8.8on 91, and tickling 9 on 93 (from what I have gathered here from members). And with timing limited in some cases.
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OK, good numbers. I just wanted to make sure the new folks knew that DCR does not change with AL heads but the effect is like it gets lower.

'Back in the day' talk was of 'effective CR', I suspect only the likes of the big race teams and factories really worked at all with DCR numbers; all one knew as that a bit over 10:1 CR was safe on the new-fangled low-lead hi-test in general. All iron heads of course. I dug out my old cam card and dredged my memory for the CC's I set in the head and for the set static CR, etc., for my 351C build in 1974, and used the Pat Kelly DCR program and out popped the DCR for that old build: 8.48 !! LOL, was I lucky without knowing it! (All from studying Car Craft and Hot Rod magazines; the www was a generation away...lol).

For the OP, that engine had the stock high flows in the 351C-2V heads, similar to what you are looking at with the Edelbrocks out of the box, with a 10.3 static CR and quench dome pistons; you can do good quench with your engine and the new heads with flat top pistons and adjusting the deck height to somewhere near zero. The cam was a stump-puller cam, 114 LSA, 113 intake LCA (1 degree ground in cam advance), 445/471 lift and 254/264 duration. With large tube headers, a good intake and 600 cfm vacuum secondary carb, it would pull steady torque from 1500 to 6500; my 1-2 shift point was 55 mph and the 2-3 shift was 85 mph, with a 3.08 or thereabouts rear gear. Stock 440 Mopar B-bodies did not stand much of a chance in regular street races in Chambersburg PA and Roanoke VA. (My Ranchero was 3300 lbs so that helped; a rear gear like 3.55 would be even better but mileage would suffer). Stock torque converter on a C4 3 speed, and got 19 mpg on the interstate at 65-70 mph. Mild idle and rumble, excellent street manners with good torque across a wide RPM band, and would pass all mid 70's emissions except for NoX. And I used it to tow a 2500 lb race car all over the eastern US 3-4 time per year for several years....

So that is is an example of what you can do with lower duration, moderate lift, good breathing, and paying attention to the CR's. To me, that is the street engine you can drive all over and enjoy any time; at any RPM when you put your foot into it, it will be there ready to go. It will not set the ultimate drag times..... So what you want to do with the car is important to decide. Hope this helps you understand and make a good decision on how to go forward.
 
AJ/FormS said:
"That 360 comes alive with some compression.+

Yeahitdoes
Mike
Mines similar to yours, 10.7Scr,with an HE3237; [email protected] 93mph in the 1/8th.
How does that compare to yours?
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In the street car, it ran 94MPH in the 1/8.

I put that engine in the Demon, 8" convertor, 4:30 gear & 10" slick.
7.0's @ 96MPH.
 
nm9 says
"So that is is an example of what you can do with lower duration, moderate lift, good breathing, and paying attention to the CR's. To me, that is the street engine you can drive all over and enjoy any time; at any RPM when you put your foot into it, it will be there ready to go. It will not set the ultimate drag times..... So what you want to do with the car is important to decide. Hope this helps you understand and make a good decision on how to go forward."
I am in full agreement with that.
The Hughes 232* cam in mine is just about too much for me. Actually it is too much, but with the tranny pkg and gears I have worked out,and the untold hours of tuning,its acceptable.
But I will say this, the Hughes HE2330(223*), was a waaaay nicer street pkg. Way more off-idle torque,generous midrange, and power enough to run 106 in the qt.Excellent throttle response,Smoke the 275s,Cruise all day, Get fuel mileage in the high 20sUS,Never overheated, Drive it anywhere,All the time,DD.
Even in 99, no one could help me with Dcr. Most had never heard of it. I had to dredge my memory-banks to come up with the trig. to create the formulas, to calculate the Dcr. And of course there was no empirical data to suggest what Dcr worked with what fuel. I was on my own. I had to back-engineer from magazine articles that had proven to work. When I set that motor up with a 9.2Dcr, I was fully prepared to have to go to water injection.By the time it was built, Manitoba was oxyginated pump fuels only.
I was very pleasantly surprised, when it ran full-load/Wot at 36*,without detonation,on 91. I was even more pleased to find it accepted 87E10.
That 223* cam was advertised as a fast-rate cam, before there was anybody else advertising that. I have no idea what the advertised duration was. It idled like a stock 340 cam or even smoother. I remember being disappointed that it sounded so tame. But boy-o-boy,only-time-out-106mph seemed really fast to a guy whos highschool car(nearly new stock 340Swinger) ran [email protected]@3330#.That Dart was fast in its time I was a happy guy.
 
mikedevore said:
In the street car, it ran 94MPH in the 1/8.

I put that engine in the Demon, 8" convertor, 4:30 gear & 10" slick.
7.0's @ 96MPH.
Click to expand...
Your idea of "street " car and mine are miles apart , for me a street car should be able to drive every day 30 -50 miles each way , home - work - home , be able to take a 200 mile cruise no problem . 4:30 gears and 8" converter would suck in the above sittuation .
Just sayin , fast car , but " street " car ?
 
jerry6 said:
Your idea of "street " car and mine are miles apart , for me a street car should be able to drive every day 30 -50 miles each way , home - work - home , be able to take a 200 mile cruise no problem . 4:30 gears and 8" converter would suck in the above sittuation .
Just sayin , fast car , but " street " car ?
Click to expand...

No doubt. There's always a division on what streetable & a street car is.
I did live with 4.10's and the MP Purple Hyd. 292/.509 for a while. Rush hour blew chunks. Going in @ midnight was fine.

Street car to me is 3.55's and less
Cam @.050 of 230 or less
Etc.... Something grand ma can drive without issue or concern.
LMAO

Streetable is what ever you can live with. If it is a 540 13-1 HEMI running E-85, 4.88's and a solid roller with a cam greater than 270 @ .050, then GOD bless ya!
 
jerry6 said:
Your idea of "street " car and mine are miles apart , for me a street car should be able to drive every day 30 -50 miles each way , home - work - home , be able to take a 200 mile cruise no problem . 4:30 gears and 8" converter would suck in the above sittuation .
Just sayin , fast car , but " street " car ?
Click to expand...

Read a little closer.
When that engine was in a street car (1973 Dart Sport) with full interior, exhaust, wipers etc, it had 3:91 gears & a 9.5" convertor.

It could be driven to & from the track, 60 mile round trip, with no concerns.
No overheating & cruised nicely @ 60MPH.

The 4:30 gera & 8"convertor came after it was installed in the Demon, that also has the frames tied, 6 point roll bar, cal tracks & 10" slicks. Not a street car.
 
70aarcuda said:
Been driving around with an out the box set for several years now..actually make that two sets..
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This ^^^^ as well. 15+ years and 3 as a daily commuter in and out of the city.

AJ/FormS said:
Bought mine in 99. Bolted them straight on. Been there for 15 years/125,000 miles.

OP do yourself a favor, leave the stock gear on the stock heads.
Click to expand...

I agree. Roller rockers at this stage isn't a real good bang for the buck.

As a note to the prior page, about taking the head as a direct swap on a low compression engine..... It's still a win win and a power maker. The loose of compression will be trumped by air flow. Provided a decent cam is a part of the build. No sense NOT taking advantage of the heads ability.
 
When I first put my S on the road in 99, with 3.55s. cruising was 2800@60mph. I drove that car everywhere, as my DD for 4 years,all seasons. On Sept long weekend, Id pull the entire drive-train out. In would go a stock 73 teener longblock, a well-tuned 904, and a rear chunk between 2.76 and 3.23. It got sos I really liked the 2.76s. One year I had enough of that Buuuuuuzzzzzzzzing 360/3.55s. So I ordered up a GV. Now Im cruising a happy man. 2100/60mph. And with the 3.09 low/Direct 4th, she takes off like she had 4.11s.Thats streetable with the 232*cam and 750DP.

I totally agree with rumble!
 
Thanks.
I do like that 2100 @ 60 mph. I'd like to (sooner or later) get a 4spd OD trans in my Magnum. Low gear set and .69 OD ratio, yea buddy, that will work for me.
 
The comment s about 'there is street and then there is street' is spot on; what people consider 'street' can vary quite a bit. In my case in the Appalachians, wide torque is needed 'cuz you don't have long straights, and where you need good torque coming out of corners will be all over the map. But, I can see where if you are in a city or suburban area and you can only open it up on freeway on-ramps like at a 1/8 mile drag strip, then more top end might be a lot of fun.

For the OP, I looked really quickly at the Lunati cam you referenced and I really kinda like it....for my kind of street driving. I'll be looking at that for the upcoming SBM build for my sons' '65 Cuda. This looks like a torquey cam. I might like a bit more lift, but with the ports of the heads you are considering, I suspect you will get cylinder filling like a higher lift cam with these lift numbers.
 
I guess I'm the only one who read dozens of posts saying that they should be checked out before being installed.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-291790.html

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-93611.html

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-271840.html

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-295372.html

Seems to be some pretty familiar names in there saying that they should be checked over before being installed. Anyway, I'm glad that I did.
 
AJ/FormS said:
The Hughes 232* cam in mine is just about too much for me. Actually it is too much, but with the tranny pkg and gears I have worked out,and the untold hours of tuning,its acceptable.
But I will say this, the Hughes HE2330(223*), was a waaaay nicer street pkg. Way more off-idle torque,generous midrange, and power enough to run 106 in the qt.Excellent throttle response,Smoke the 275s,Cruise all day, Get fuel mileage in the high 20sUS,Never overheated, Drive it anywhere,All the time,DD.
Even in 99, no one could help me with Dcr. Most had never heard of it. I had to dredge my memory-banks to come up with the trig. to create the formulas, to calculate the Dcr. And of course there was no empirical data to suggest what Dcr worked with what fuel. I was on my own. I had to back-engineer from magazine articles that had proven to work. When I set that motor up with a 9.2Dcr, I was fully prepared to have to go to water injection.By the time it was built, Manitoba was oxyginated pump fuels only.
I was very pleasantly surprised, when it ran full-load/Wot at 36*,without detonation,on 91. I was even more pleased to find it accepted 87E10.
That 223* cam was advertised as a fast-rate cam, before there was anybody else advertising that. I have no idea what the advertised duration was. It idled like a stock 340 cam or even smoother. I remember being disappointed that it sounded so tame. But boy-o-boy,only-time-out-106mph seemed really fast to a guy whos highschool car(nearly new stock 340Swinger) ran [email protected]@3330#.That Dart was fast in its time I was a happy guy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing these data points. This is the kind of info that helps people get a grip on the differences in cam and breathing and all that.

Do you have any ideas why the 9.2 DCR worked OK for your setup? Quench? The cooler AL heads? Other??? That is what I would like very much to understand. (And what is the exchange rate for Canadian DCR's to US DCR's? Or did you calculate Imperial DCR? LOL)
 
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