anti-recline device causes fight on plane/2 kicked off

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krazykuda said:
Yeah.


He did upgrade to "economy plus", but he didn't go full blown first class....

I've never heard of "economy plus" before this, as I try not to fly because of all of the hassles. It sounds like the "poor man's first class"....
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Bingo, economy plus does give you about 4 more inches between you and the seat in front of you.

Something else, a lot of folks have said he should have gone firstclass if he was worried about having enough room. But a lot of planes don't even have a first class section. It's economy, economy plus, or business class which is just the first few rows of economy plus.

I think they do need to take a few seats out, and make more room for everyone, but that will never happen cause the airlines are greedy and don't give a crap if we're all crammed in like sardines.
 
He is lucky he was picking on a woman with a glass of something to douse him with. If it had been me, he might likely ended up doused with blood from his nose.
 
When a seat reclines, it affects two people - the one in the seat, and the one behind the person in the seat. Why should only one of them have control?

The fact that a device like the Knee Defender even exists is because some people think that having a reclining seat gives them license to be inconsiderate. So someone tries force them into compliance by making it impossible to ignore the person in the seat behind by inventing a device like the Knee Defender.

Rather than treating each other kindly, we try to solve our problems with gadgets that only create more problems.

No matter how you look at it, it's such a sad commentary on human interaction...
 
moparmat2000 said:
actually not true. not every seat has a recline function. the seats in front of an emergency exit do not have a.recline function , nor do the seats between a double overwing exit. however the best seat in the house in coach is the row thats at the aft overwing emergency exit. this row does recline because theres no exit behind it. the row at the fwd overwing exit has extra room but these do not not recline as it will interfere with emergency egress from the aircraft aft overwing emergency exit thats behind it

typically your seat spacing is 31" from front track locking pin, to front track locking pin seat to seat. emergency exit rows are typically 36" from locking pin to locking pin. so your aft overwing emergency exit row which i try to get everytime i fly has extra legroom, and reclines. works great since i have bad knees.

how do i know this, well i am an airline heavy maintenance mechanic.

Matt



its not that bad, its only one hundred dollars.
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Bulk head is good too for leg room with no one in front of you and it's close to the first class lav.
But then you don't get to pull the plug door and be the first one off if the plane catches fire.
 
mja1962 said:
When a seat reclines, it affects two people - the one in the seat, and the one behind the person in the seat. Why should only one of them have control?

The fact that a device like the Knee Defender even exists is because some people think that having a reclining seat gives them license to be inconsiderate. So someone tries force them into compliance by making it impossible to ignore the person in the seat behind by inventing a device like the Knee Defender.

Rather than treating each other kindly, we try to solve our problems with gadgets that only create more problems.

No matter how you look at it, it's such a sad commentary on human interaction...
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We have a winner!!!!
 
adriver said:
Bulk head is good too for leg room with no one in front of you and it's close to the first class lav.
But then you don't get to pull the plug door and be the first one off if the plane catches fire.
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love the bulkhead seats
and since my youngest is 9 months old and my parents live 5000 miles away, we get that seat quite often because it where they attach the sockdrawer for the baby
 
younggun2.0 said:
if a person will go thru all the bullshit of ordering a device and putting it on a airline seat then he can pony up and fly first class. EVERYONE in coach has the same seat with the same recline function. thats the ticket you paid for when you booked your flight. if i was on the flight with this guy i would be livid!
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***Winner.. *DING DING DING, bells, whistles and all that ****!
 
mja1962 said:
some people think that having a reclining seat gives them license to be inconsiderate.
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Are you saying that the person sitting behind has more right to be comfortable than the person in the front?

How is reclining in your seat being inconsiderate?

You are just trying to get comfortable when you are packed in like sardines. Both people should be comfortable, not one or the other.

It's more inconsiderate/selfish to force someone else to be uncomfortable so that you can be comfortable. Reasonable people should compromise and not act like jackasses.


Another reason that I rarely fly... Only when I have to.
 
krazykuda said:
Are you saying that the person sitting behind has more right to be comfortable than the person in the front?

How is reclining in your seat being inconsiderate?

You are just trying to get comfortable when you are packed in like sardines. Both people should be comfortable, not one or the other.

It's more inconsiderate/selfish to force someone else to be uncomfortable so that you can be comfortable. Reasonable people should compromise and not act like jackasses.


Another reason that I rarely fly... Only when I have to.
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I agree with you - reasonable people should compromise and not act like jackasses.

Of course the person behind has no more right to be comfortable than the one in front - and no less. That's exactly my point.

Your statement: "It's more inconsiderate/selfish to force someone else to be uncomfortable so that you can be comfortable." applies equally to both the person in the back as well as in the front.

Reclining becomes inconsiderate when the person behind you is made uncomfortable by the reclined seat. Nobody has questioned that the "jerk" in this story was uncomfortable, they just had an issue with how he dealt with the situation. (I would not use the "Knee Defender" myself). So, is the solution just that he should be uncomfortable so that the person in front can be comfortable?

Reminds me of the old saying, "Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins"

And worth repeating - reasonable people should compromise and not act like jackasses. (If only we didn't have to deal with the unreasonable people!)
 
mja1962 said:
I agree with you - reasonable people should compromise and not act like jackasses.

Of course the person behind has no more right to be comfortable than the one in front - and no less. That's exactly my point.

Your statement: "It's more inconsiderate/selfish to force someone else to be uncomfortable so that you can be comfortable." applies equally to both the person in the back as well as in the front.

Reclining becomes inconsiderate when the person behind you is made uncomfortable by the reclined seat. Nobody has questioned that the "jerk" in this story was uncomfortable, they just had an issue with how he dealt with the situation. (I would not use the "Knee Defender" myself). So, is the solution just that he should be uncomfortable so that the person in front can be comfortable?

Reminds me of the old saying, "Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins"

And worth repeating - reasonable people should compromise and not act like jackasses. (If only we didn't have to deal with the unreasonable people!)
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I agree that BOTH people have a right to be comfortable.

But it really is not either of their fault that the planes are packed like sardines. It's the plane manufacturers and airlines who are responsible for the passenger layout.

I read an additional article yesterday about this that stated that BOTH of the passengers involved PAID FOR ECONOMY PLUS. So both did pay to be more comfortable than the standard coach fares.

Now it also said that the airline does not support the use of the "knee defender". That being said, the airline should have taken more strict action against the guy who refused to take the knee blocker off the seat. If they would have taken care of the situation properly, the woman wouldn't have needed to throw the water on the guy to prove her point. She did try to address it properly through the flight personnel, they failed to remedy the situation and enforce the rule that the knee blocker is not allowed.

So I place the blame on those involved in this order:

1. The jerk who refused to remove the knee blocker has most of the blame here. 50%

2. The airlines should have used their authority to enforce the rules. 35%

3. The woman who threw the water on him after the airline personnel could not enforce the rules properly. 15%


We all know that if you screw around on a flight there can be serious consequences. The guy had no right to refuse to remove the knee blocker when the attendant asked him to.

If the knee blocker is not approved to be on a flight, then why didn't the security inspection catch it and not let it go on the plane in the first place?

The knee blocker is a useless product if it is not allowed on the airplane. Why are they being sold to the public if they are "illegal" to use. It does not support the purpose that it is made for and should not be sold in the first place.


The frustrated woman actually got more results by throwing the water on him than the airline employees did. If she didn't throw the water on him, he would have gotten away with it.
 
I don't disagree...

I do wonder what would have happened if the guy simply and politely asked the woman not to recline all the way, instead of forcing the device on her. It might have turned out differently...or not.
 
Frankie said:
I'm 6'3" and if the seat in front of me is in the upright position, by knees are usually hard against that seat back. If the person in front of my tries to recline it usually gets very uncomfortable for both of us. My knees are getting crushed against their back, and, yes, they can feel that.

It usually only takes one or two tries before the stop. In most cases common courtesy prevails.
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Same here! I can hardly walk after a couple hr flight
 
Did I pay for a seat and the space my legs take up on the plane? If my knees are right up against the back of their chair is this my space or theirs? A reclining seat now is taking away from the space I paid for. Like I originally said, just make all seats unable to recline like they did with the one's in front of the emergency rows and no more problems.
 
64conv65hard said:
Did I pay for a seat and the space my legs take up on the plane? If my knees are right up against the back of their chair is this my space or theirs? A reclining seat now is taking away from the space I paid for. Like I originally said, just make all seats unable to recline like they did with the one's in front of the emergency rows and no more problems.
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the fact is that the seat reclines. that reclined position is space i paid for. don't like it pay up and move to first class. so simple.
 
So...who owns the shared armrests then?

Should passengers in the aisle or at the window each get 1.5 armrests, while the middle seat gets only two halves? Is it the luck of the draw? Where does it end?!

;)
 
This is why I prefer to drive instead of fly...


I get to control my own schedule and comfort without any hassles....
 
mja1962 said:
I don't disagree...

I do wonder what would have happened if the guy simply and politely asked the woman not to recline all the way, instead of forcing the device on her. It might have turned out differently...or not.
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Last time my stepfather flew (business trip), he did that. The passenger in front of him immediately jammed the seat all the way back. The guy he often travels with has it pretty bad: he's 6'7" tall. Basically, he spends the entire flight wedged against the next seat, totally unable to move his legs.

I will hitch-hike before I will fly...it's less hassle.
 
mja1962 said:
So...who owns the shared armrests then?

Should passengers in the aisle or at the window each get 1.5 armrests, while the middle seat gets only two halves? Is it the luck of the draw? Where does it end?!

;)
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i've never had an issue with an armrest. seems to just work out.
 
Has anyone ever tried farting on a plane to help get more "personal space"?
 
abodyjoe said:
the fact is that the seat reclines. that reclined position is space i paid for. don't like it pay up and move to first class. so simple.
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So if the 300 lb guy sits next to you and the armrest can be put down as the barrier but he still hangs into your area it's ok? This is why I take the train, plenty of room.
 
Although I agree with the woman here, I fly every week and they giver you very little room to operate. If you have a computer on the tray table and the person in front of you just decides to recline abruptly (without the common courtesy of asking if it bothers you), the indent where the tray sets into when stored will catch the top of your screen and damn near break it! I think no seats should recline. They disable the ones in front of the exit row so not EVERYBODY gets to recline.
 
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