Anyone Know What this Connector is Called?

[gage zamrzla]

The rectangular connector. It comes off the starter, through the firewall bulkhead. From there it connects to the back of the alternator gauge.

Anyone know an exact name and where I could get one? I've gone to all my local auto parts stores the good and the usuals and nobody can come up with anything.

I had a loose connection to the gauge that I believe heated up the alternator gauge, it started to smoke lightly and then fried very shortly after. The positive wire fried from the gauge through the firewall and up to the starter. All the other wires appear to have been undamaged. I'm replacing all the other connections and putting in a new wire but this part is warped from removing it and I'm not thinking I'm gonna be good trying to force it back through the bulkhead. This one's far too beat up and bent to fit back I to place.

Any suggestions or info on the connector name and a place I could get another would be a great help.

 

[67Dart273]

None of that is factory

What year/ make/ model vehicle you working on and where exactly was that attached?

Part of it resembles "it was taken?" from a starter relay.

 

[gage zamrzla]

1963 Dodge Dart. It connects directly into and through the firewall bulkhead. This photo shows the ground on the left coming through the bulkhead. The positive went though the empty slit on the right.

 

[gage zamrzla]

This would be facing toward the front of the car in the engine bay.

 

[Dana67Dart]

Are you looking to have oem look?

If not you could get a piece of copper the right size, drill 2 holes one in each end and use a nut and nylock nut to bolt the lug the the piece of copper. It kind of looks like a connector bypass like 67 up did for taxi and police

 

[65 Dartman]

As you said the flat connector in your first post went through the bulkhead connector on the right which appears to be somewhat melted. If so it should have had a 12 gauge wire that probably went to the ammeter. 63 and 65’s were the only A Bodies to use a solid terminal like that. By the 65 FSM the other terminal goes to the battery circuit, not a ground

 

[gage zamrzla]

As far as electrical goes I'm not worried about OEM nearly as much as I am not burning the car to the ground lol.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give that a look and maybe give it a try this coming weekend.

 

[gage zamrzla]

And hell, if someone on here in the Bay Area is well experienced with electric I have no problem providing the beer, cash or whatever it takes to get you over here to help me out and make sure I don't have another almost fire when I go to put this back together. I can do the labor but I'm still real green when it comes to electrical beyond simply replacing wires.

 

[4spdragtop]

Not being a smartass, install a battery quick disconnect and make sure to always have a fire extinguisher in car with you.(not in trunk either)

And hell, if someone on here in the Bay Area is well experienced with electric I have no problem providing the beer, cash or whatever it takes to get you over here to help me out and make sure I don't have another almost fire when I go to put this back together. I can do the labor but I'm still real green when it comes to electrical beyond simply replacing wires.

 

[gage zamrzla]

Not being a smartass, install a battery quick disconnect and make sure to always have a fire extinguisher in car with you.(not in trunk either)

Not taken that way and that's actually what a friend of mine suggested last night and I was planning on doing so so thank you for the suggestion and the extinguisher is always right under the seat just in case.

 

[Mattax]

These parts most certainly are factory.

Obviously it came from the bulkhead connector you are holding.

That may be a '63 only bulkhead connector. The terminals at the red arrows are for the alternator output and the battery output/charge wires.
Having a big heavy connection like that provides more surface area and less resistance. Unfortunately if the screw or crimp is loose then its going to heat up when current is flowing through, just like any other poor connection. So looseness may have been a problem, but the question remains whether it was the cause. We'll discuss that next post.

If you can't get another connecytor, it sounds like you'll be OK with salvaging that one. Best thing to do will be to remove the all the of the male and female terminals from that side and the mating connectors. Clean or replace them. Get a new seal set from Detroit Muscle Technologies. Get a crimper some heat shrink tubing and good wire.
I'll edit this post with some links later on.

 

[gage zamrzla]

As you said the flat connector in your first post went through the bulkhead connector on the right which appears to be somewhat melted. If so it should have had a 12 gauge wire that probably went to the ammeter. 63 and 65’s were the only A Bodies to use a solid terminal like. By the 65 FSM the other terminal goes to the battery circuit, not a ground

I believe it was a 10 gauge wire connecting to the ammeter. I had replaced it due to a bad (webbed) wire originally in the car from the time I purchased it. It seemed to work perfectly fine and has for several months until recently I noticed when I went to inspect why it was smoking that the connection of that 10 gauge wire to the ammeter was crimped poorly, my own fault and I believe that was what was causing the gauge to heat up and smoke to the point it fried the gauge and wire.

Old gauge is crispy now in the back side. My belief if that had the connection been secure and not coming in and out the inside of the gauge wouldn't have melted together and shorted and I may not have had this problem to begin with though like I mentioned I'm pretty green so I could be mistaken.

Could someone suggest why the positive wire would be fried but the black connecting to the battery circuit wouldn't be?

 

[Mattax]

I had a loose connection to the gauge that I believe heated up the alternator gauge, it started to smoke lightly and then fried very shortly after. The positive wire fried from the gauge through the firewall and up to the starter.

Lets try to figure out what went wrong.
This will require getting you up on how the electrical system is set up.
The wires from the battery positive to the 'alternator' gage continue on to a welded junction.
At this junction the alternator positive joins the battery positive and feeds going to the various main circuits.

When the engine is running and the alternator working, power flows from the alternator to the main junction and then to where ever needed.
If the battery needs recharging, current flows to the battery. The ammeter needle moves toward charge.
If the alternator can't supply the power, then the battery does. Current flow out of the battery and the ammeter shows discharge.
Normally right of starting you might see the needle move as much as halfway toward Charge (20 amps) then move to zero over the next few minutes.

So if you can recall what the situation was when the wires were heating, and what the ammeter was showing, there may be some clues as to what went wrong.

 

[Mattax]

Old gauge is crispy now in the back side. My belief if that had the connection been secure and not coming in and out the inside of the gauge wouldn't have melted together and shorted and I may not have had this problem to begin with though like I mentioned I'm pretty green so I could be mistaken.

Could someone suggest why the positive wire would be fried but the black connecting to the battery circuit wouldn't be?

Its hard to see the exact construction from the one photo and I don't know '63s.
Slight possibility some small piece of metal was touching the connecting plate and creating a short to ground.

Seems more likely the metal plate connecting the studs wasn't as well attached to the one.
On some ammeters it is possible to solder the stud to plate connections that were originally just press fit.
On some ammeters the stud to plate connection depends somewhat on the plastic housing - and if they get hot and flow, then they can get loose.

 

[67Dart273]

Obviously it came from the bulkhead connector you are holding.

Yeh LOLOLOL Now that we know what he is working on

 

[Mattax]

I'm hesitant to put all the blame on your crimping or reattachment of the red wire to ammeter.
If that was the case, then the terminal through the bulkhead shouldn't have failed.
Other than charging, normally there's not a lot of current in that line. But if there are other problems, then that changes. That's why I asked if you noticed what the ammeter was showing before and/or during this meltdown.

For the repairs.
Removing terminals - Engine Compartment Main Bulkhead Connector

Cleaning bulkhead connectors

Sources for Chrysler type wire terminals

Lets Talk Open Barrel Crimpers - Reviews and Discussion

 

[gage zamrzla]

Lets try to figure out what went wrong.
This will require getting you up on how the electrical system is set up.
The wires from the battery positive to the 'alternator' gage continue on to a welded junction.
At this junction the alternator positive joins the battery positive and feeds going to the various main circuits.
View attachment 1715690229
When the engine is running and the alternator working, power flows from the alternator to the main junction and then to where ever needed.
If the battery needs recharging, current flows to the battery. The ammeter needle moves toward charge.
If the alternator can't supply the power, then the battery does. Current flow out of the battery and the ammeter shows discharge.
Normally right of starting you might see the needle move as much as halfway toward Charge (20 amps) then move to zero over the next few minutes.

So if you can recall what the situation was when the wires were heating, and what the ammeter was showing, there may be some clues as to what went wrong.

The best that I can remember leading up to this the gauge was wobbling more to the right toward charge. When accelerating it would drop slightly but was pretty consistently pointing in the charge direction.

 

[Mattax]

A slight charge could just be a normal battery needs. Wobble takes a little experience and some guessing if its a loose wire, or regulation or normal.

When checking out the old ammeter, see if there is any looseness in that stud.
The other thing to do is check for resistance. It should be so low it doesn't show on a multimeter. Touch the meter's probes together and then check the ammeter. Any measureable resistance is too much.

How the meter works is the metal plate carries the current close to the needle.
The electromagnetic field created by the electricity moving through moves the needle.

 

[gage zamrzla]

I'm hesitant to put all the blame on your crimping or reattachment of the red wire to ammeter.
If that was the case, then the terminal through the bulkhead shouldn't have failed.
Other than charging, normally there's not a lot of current in that line. But if there are other problems, then that changes. That's why I asked if you noticed what the ammeter was showing before and/or during this meltdown.

For the repairs.
Removing terminals - Engine Compartment Main Bulkhead Connector

Cleaning bulkhead connectors

Sources for Chrysler type wire terminals

Lets Talk Open Barrel Crimpers - Reviews and Discussion

You say the terminal through the bulkhead failed, what exactly do you mean by that? If you're referring to me trying to replace it due to being misshapen or warped that was from me trying to remove it because the slot is such a tight fit. Or are you referring to it frying the red wire on both ends of the firewall? I was under the impression it's simply a connection to keep current flowing and that shouldn't stop it from frying on both sides.

Just trying to understand what you mean by it failing and don't want to give a false impression.

 

[Mattax]

My impression was that the plastic retainer holding this terminal overheated.

And that's why you removed it.
No?

 

[Mattax]

Seeing some evidence of heat damage here too.

I would put a wanted add for a good clean '63 connector and ammeter. The ammeter may be the same as other years and models.
The connector may is a little different than '65 but may be the same as other '63 models.

While your fixing the system, I would measure for resistance in the key switch, as well as voltage regulator to ground, the alternator to ground, and the ground connection engine to the battery negative cable.
Any measurable resistance in the ammeter is not good.

If you must reuse the damaged one, it could be checked on the bench by putting a current through.
To do this you'll need a 12 to 14 V power supply (a car battery will work) and something that will draw 5 or 10 amps.
It could be a headlight, a heater blower, or a carbon pile resistor. I dont know what you have available.

Put a voltmeter across the two ammeter studs.
When the circuit is connected, current will flow through. The ammeter should show the amount of current, and if there is resistance in the ammeter it will show as a voltage difference between the studs.

Setup like this

The complete the circuit if the ammeter has no resistance to the flow (ideal).

I doubt it will be zero. But it should be pretty close to zero with only 4 to 5 amps through it.

Lets say there is a voltage across the ammeter.

Having a 0.6 Volts loss with only 5 amps of current is significant.

Besides the heat, it also means that 1.2 Volts would be lost when 8 to 10 amps are flowing through. That's not acceptable.

Remember earlier I wrote that if it shows any resistance on a typical multimeter, its too much?
This is example is just on the edge of the amount of resistance that a multi-meter may be able to reveal.
The digital meter I use generally shows .1 Ohms when its probes are pressed together.
Lets compare that to the resistance in our example.

We'll estimate the current based either on the ammeter reading or the high beam of our lamp.
If the ammeter is showing about correctly and knowing the battery is fully charged (12.5 volts) we can be pretty sure current is around 4 to 5 amps.

V = I x R
0.6 Volts = 4 amps x Resistance
0.6 Volts/4amps = Resistance
0.15 Ohms resistance in the ammeter.

So with my multimeter, it might just show .2 ohms with the probes clamped to the ammeter's studs.

 

[gage zamrzla]

My impression was that the plastic retainer holding this terminal overheated.
View attachment 1715690522
And that's why you removed it.
No?

Sort of yes, the wire fried and I had to remove the terminal to replace the full wire the plastic retainer is in ok condition considering how bad the wire webbed and burned up.

 

[gage zamrzla]

Seeing some evidence of heat damage here too.
View attachment 1715690524

I would put a wanted add for a good clean '63 connector and ammeter. The ammeter may be the same as other years and models.
The connector may is a little different than '65 but may be the same as other '63 models.

While your fixing the system, I would measure for resistance in the key switch, as well as voltage regulator to ground, the alternator to ground, and the ground connection engine to the battery negative cable.
Any measurable resistance in the ammeter is not good.

If you must reuse the damaged one, it could be checked on the bench by putting a current through.
To do this you'll need a 12 to 14 V power supply (a car battery will work) and something that will draw 5 or 10 amps.
It could be a headlight, a heater blower, or a carbon pile resistor. I dont know what you have available.

Put a voltmeter across the two ammeter studs.
When the circuit is connected, current will flow through. The ammeter should show the amount of current, and if there is resistance in the ammeter it will show as a voltage difference between the studs.

Setup like this
View attachment 1715690532

The complete the circuit if the ammeter has no resistance to the flow (ideal).
View attachment 1715690535

I doubt it will be zero. But it should be pretty close to zero with only 4 to 5 amps through it.

Lets say there is a voltage across the ammeter.
View attachment 1715690538
Having a 0.6 Volts loss with only 5 amps of current is significant.

Besides the heat, it also means that 1.2 Volts would be lost when 8 to 10 amps are flowing through. That's not acceptable.

Remember earlier I wrote that if it shows any resistance on a typical multimeter, its too much?
This is example is just on the edge of the amount of resistance that a multi-meter may be able to reveal.
The digital meter I use generally shows .1 Ohms when its probes are pressed together.
Lets compare that to the resistance in our example.

We'll estimate the current based either on the ammeter reading or the high beam of our lamp.
If the ammeter is showing about correctly and knowing the battery is fully charged (12.5 volts) we can be pretty sure current is around 4 to 5 amps.

V = I x R
0.6 Volts = 4 amps x Resistance
0.6 Volts/4amps = Resistance
0.15 Ohms resistance in the ammeter.

So with my multimeter, it might just show .2 ohms with the probes clamped to the ammeter's studs.

View attachment 1715690589

I have a replacement ammeter that I ordered from MoparMall.com it's used but in very good condition. The studs on it are definitely solid where the ones on my original do have a very slight wobble like you mentioned before.

As for the connector you're referring to the part I originally asked about in this post, the rectangular one correct?

And thank you for the walkthrough, I"be read it twice and will go over it a few more times just to be certain and give this a go once I get a day off later this week. Really, a big thank you again for all of this information.

 

[Mattax]

I have a replacement ammeter that I ordered from MoparMall.com it's used but in very good condition. The studs on it are definitely solid where the ones on my original do have a very slight wobble like you mentioned before.

OK. The wobble was why it got hot. If you want to disect it further and post photos, maybe it will help others.
When you install make sure the studs are insulated from any metal dash parts. Some use fiber washers, others go through the circuit board. I don't know your cars dash just mentioning it.

As for the connector you're referring to the part I originally asked about in this post, the rectangular one correct?

The bulkhead connector - yes. If you can reinstall the terminal so it doesn't move, then maybe its fine. If it can move then the vibrations could cause the screw and crimps to lose grip. A lot of us are dismissive of the wire supports, removing them when they get in the way of repairs and maintenance. Only years later we find out the hard way that the guys who built the car had a reason for putting them there. I for one am a lot more humble these days.

The bench test was a way to reveal resistance if you were reusing the old one.
The concept can be used broadly so its worth reviewing anyway.
Remember that current is electrons moving.
Voltage is level of energy.
When flowing electrons encounter resistance, power gets used and the energy level drops.

On a slightly different subject-
I don't know how the cables are laid out on a '63.
It may be worth looking into using a later style positive cable that has a second wire going directly to the starter relay.
The only thing it might do is provide a more direct connection in a cooler environment. On a slant six this is pretty open and maybe doesn't make a difference.
The other thing to consider is installing a fusible link. The purpose of the link is like a fuse. Its a smaller gage wire with special insulation. The idea is that it can handle occassional, short periods of excessive current ( 40 amps) but if the battery is accidently grounded, it will melt immediately.
It probably would not have helped prevent the overheating failures you saw.
I can't picture this 'webbed' wire you inherited and removed but have to think whatever caused that damage also may have damaged the ammeter stud connection.


The easiest type of link to add will be one with a ring terminal large enough to go on the relay stud.
In the Chrysler Tech booklet we can see a double link used in '65 for the Fury that also protects the horn relay.
Electrical Accessories & Service (Session 207) from the Master Technician's Service Conference

I don't know if anyone repops that or the Valiant/dart version, but if you really like the idea you can buy a 16 gage link and make your own.
Here's two versions with a ring terminal

 

[BillGrissom]

Yes, two of my A's have those, and my C-body. I term them "bulkhead buss-bars", used to feed-thru the high ALT and BAT wires. They were used only in 1963 and 1965. I like them so much that I bought the cabin harness for a 1965 Fury off ebay ($30) to install the bulkhead in my 1964 Valiant, to match my 1965 Dart and 1965 Newport. I had to cut the firewall hole 1/8" taller to fit. Other years ran those high currents thru the more regular Packard terminals (spade) in the bulkhead, which causes continual problems with overheating from corrosion and melting. Some years have bigger Packard terminals, but still doesn't work well since a slide fit, instead of bolted like yours. A 1965 bulkhead would give you more terminals for future wires, but might be slightly taller. Around 1966, the bulkhead got 3 connectors when they moved the wiper motor to the engine bay.

I don't know why you can't re-use yours. They are tin-coated copper so you can easily beat flat with a hammer. Yours look a bit flimsier than my 1965, where the cabin wire slides into a cylindrical housing and was welded or soldered. Clean it well, crimp, then solder. Solder protects from corrosion. On the engine side, you can use any new wire you want under the bolt. Your wire looks fine, so just add a little solder to the crimp. The factory wire was 12 awg, but I used thicker 8 awg (or 6 forget).

You also need to find why you had either excessive current or heat from corrosion. Did you install a higher output alternator? Check that the ammeter wires on the dash cluster are properly insulated from ground. Since only the BAT+ terminal on the ammeter was burnt, and that bulkhead buss-bar, it sounds like that wire became grounded at the ammeter. Perhaps the ammeter needle assembly fell apart internally. One common corrosion source is a "welded" connection where a bunch of black ALT wires are fused and wrapped with friction tape. That often becomes green with corrosion under the tape. I kept those wires fused together, cleaned the outside as best I could, and added solder. But, that would make heat on the black ALT wire, which you don't see, but still check it to avoid future problems while "in there".

In my cars, I ran an alternator bypass wire in the engine bay to keep excessive current from routing thru the cabin. I used parallel-reversed diodes so that normal flow is thru the ammeter, until the diodes start conducting more in forward-bias (>0.5 A) to shunt current direct to BATT+. That keeps my ammeter working, without pegging it with a higher output alternator. Search for my post on "modernized wiring" if interested.