B&M Converter is bad

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straightlinespeed

straightlinespeed

Sometimes I pretend to be normal
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Brand new converter that was never run, unfortunately was in a box for a couple years so I cant return it is garbage. I have a new B&M 2000 stall converter that is junk! I have a issue with the car wanting to die as soon as you put it in gear and thats with the idle set at 1200.

So here is my question. Im looking for a new converter and not going to go with the B&M. That converter was neutral balanced and I had the matching flex plate since Im running a 360. All the converters Im looking at (Hughes, TCI, Tubro Action) are all balanced converters. Will that work with my flex B&M flex plate and will the balance of my engine be ok?
 
Put a timing light on it... It's messed up from the word go.
 
I'm not sure I understand. I had it on a dyno today at a performance shop and they were having the same problem. They set my timing correctly. I'm not going to doubt there ability with setting timing when all they do is build high performance cars and engines. So please tell me what timing has to do with the car acting like the converter is locked up at such a low rpm
 
where did they set the timing at?....

Do you know the specs on the engine and camshaft:?
 
70aarcuda said:
where did they set the timing at?....

Do you know the specs on the engine and camshaft:?
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They set the timing to 38*, which I believe is total. Sorry i have no other info on the timing settings and i still dont understand all the technical initial, mechanical and advanced, curve etc. They said my distributor is working properly and nothing needed to be changed with that. They had the cam card which is a xe268. And its more or less a stock built 360 with magnum heads.
 
Go with a fti converter best service... talk to gregg there out of florida
 
big difference on how a car will idle between initial timing and total timing...

so the converter works fine except the engine dies at idle in gear.?
 
I don't remember where your engine ended up as far as specs and power....But I do know, a 2000 stall B&M is just above stock, at best. I used a few 11" models many moons ago, and eventually learned my lesson.

P.S. There's no way that engine should have to idle anywhere near 1200 rpm's. More like 850/900 would be more in line...
 
70aarcuda said:
big difference on how a car will idle between initial timing and total timing...

so the converter works fine except the engine dies at idle in gear.?
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The cars idle is set at 1200. Once you put it in gear it drops to about 500 and runs rough. It wants to just take off. I can't even foot brake the car and get it to spin the tires because I can't get the rpms up. The car just wants to take off and go.
 
I know it just came off the dyno, but even with the tight converter, that combo should be workable for now. Does it seem like the carb is loading up when you drop it in gear? Vacuum leak? Too much power valve?
 
70aarcuda said:
Buy a new converter......done..
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Is that sarcasm or do you really think its the converter? Lol

Sorry I wish I understood more on how the timing works. I know what the initial is, I just have no idea how to check mechanical ( and if its off how to pick which springs and weights), and I really don't understand curve. I just want to make sure that it really is the converter and not another issue.
 
Sounds like way too much mechanical advance in the distributor, so even though you have 38 degrees total timing, the timing at idle is way retarded, which will cause your exact symptoms.
 
OldmanRick said:
I know it just came off the dyno, but even with the tight converter, that combo should be workable for now. Does it seem like the carb is loading up when you drop it in gear? Vacuum leak? Too much power valve?
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No I don't believe the carb is loading up. It don't feel like that because as soon as you let off the brake and hit the gas it goes. Maybe a vacuum leak, I can check for that tomorrow. I don't think Eddy's have power valves do they?
 
straightlinespeed said:
No I don't believe the carb is loading up. It don't feel like that because as soon as you let off the brake and hit the gas it goes. Maybe a vacuum leak, I can check for that tomorrow. I don't think Eddy's have power valves do they?
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No power valve on the Eddy. That function is controlled by a spring. I doubt that's your issue as the stock setting should be able to handle your setup.

If there's no vacuum leak, i'd have to go with a timing issue or a bad converter, like has been mentioned earlier.
 
IT'S NOT THE CONVERTER!

That cam in a well set up engine will idle at 750 and 700 in gear.
 
Converters don't just turn on at 2000 R's or whatever they are advertized at.
I would think that it tries to take off because the idle is so high, and the idle is so high to compensate for mistuning somewhere.
This is indicated by the huge RPM drop when you put it in gear.
I think this is where everyone is headed with this.

You did say you wanted to be sure.
 
TrailBeast said:
Converters don't just turn on at 2000 R's or whatever they are advertized at.
I would think that it tries to take off because the idle is so high, and the idle is so high to compensate for mistuning somewhere.
This is indicated by the huge RPM drop when you put it in gear.
I think this is where everyone is headed with this.

You did say you wanted to be sure.
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That's what I'm getting from it too. Anytime you have a near stock stall converter and have the idle turned up to 1200 it'll naturally want to take right off. Shoot I've got a 3500 stall in mine and if I'd set the idle at 1200 it'd do 10-15 mph. Not saying the converter isn't bad, but it sure sounds more like a engine issue to me, most likely the carb is leaning way out either from a vacuum leak or obstruction somewhere in the idle circuit, or messed up tuning by the dyno operator. Most dyno operators know enough what their doing but when an engine is idling on a dyno with no load he might have set the a/f ratio too lean to work when installed in the car and in gear. When you drop a car in gear the a/f ratio goes leaner, possibly it's just too lean to idle good. When I tuned mine I had to set the a/f ratio at about 13.5 to 1 in neutral because it goes up to 14.2~14.4 to 1 when I drop it in gear. Any leaner than that and it don't idle good. First and simplest thing I'd try is backing out the idle mixture adjustments a 1/4~1/2 turn and see if that makes it better. If it gets better back them out a little more and see if it gets better again.

And *** D55 Dave said retarded initial timing can also make it idle sluggish/bad. In fact the initial timing should to be verified first before doing anything else including adjusting the carb like I recommended above.
 
fishy68 said:
That's what I'm getting from it too. Anytime you have a near stock stall converter and have the idle turned up to 1200 it'll naturally want to take right off. Shoot I've got a 3500 stall in mine and if I'd set the idle at 1200 it'd do 10-15 mph. Not saying the converter isn't bad, but it sure sounds more like a engine issue to me, most likely the carb is leaning way out either from a vacuum leak or obstruction somewhere in the idle circuit, or messed up tuning by the dyno operator. Most dyno operators know enough what their doing but when an engine is idling on a dyno with no load he might have set the a/f ratio too lean to work when installed in the car and in gear. When you drop a car in gear the a/f ratio goes leaner, possibly it's just too lean to idle good. When I tuned mine I had to set the a/f ratio at about 13.5 to 1 in neutral because it goes up to 14.2~14.4 to 1 when I drop it in gear. Any leaner than that and it don't idle good. First and simplest thing I'd try is backing out the idle mixture adjustments a 1/4~1/2 turn and see if that makes it better. If it gets better back them out a little more and see if it gets better again.

And *** D55 Dave said retarded initial timing can also make it idle sluggish/bad. In fact the initial timing should to be verified first before doing anything else including adjusting the carb like I recommended above.
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This is absolutely true, in fact, with not enough initial timing (due to too much mechanical advance) the idle speed ends up being turned up so much (opening up the throttle blades) that the engine is not even idling on the idle circuit - it is idling on the main circuit in the carb.

Your dyno guy was probably looking at peak horsepower numbers at high RPM and adjusting timing at rpm and jetting for this, but probably didnt pay much attention to your idle tune.
 
10 to 1 odds it's not the converter! I'm definitley in the camp with the guys saying its an issue with the tuning.
 
Ok, I will be buying a good timing light, doing some research on how to properly do this, initial, mechanical and total. Then checking this all out myself. Im starting to wonder what the inside of my distributor even has, such as are the springs even connected and what not.

I would rather spend the money on a timing light and a new distributor or spring kit, what ever it may need than a new torque converter.
 
Dyno tuning is about max power, normally. Had a bike "dyno tuned" a while back. Screamed up top but made absolutely nothing anywhere else......made riding two up difficult. I spent some time tweaking it. When all was said and done had it ran on the same dyno again. Ended up being down 1 hp.....with a worlds different power curve...Since then I have viewed tuning on a dyno as a racer thing....for everyday drive-ability it needs to be tuned on the road.....
 
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