Bad spark?

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Moparornocar51

Moparornocar51

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Hey guys i get headache i installed everything new now, the distributor another coil new wires.. i also tried the new distributor without the msd box , that i can get sure everything is correct i still dont have a good spark, every 2 seconds just a little spark i also checked with the ohm meter the spark plug wires, everything seems to work but i dont have a good spark? Any ideas maybe?

And when i set the engine at the TDC mark the first cylinder is at TDC but the mark on the dumper is not at zero ??

I really get sick with that things now, maybe u guys have an idea

I use the msd billet ready to run distributor and msd blaster coil


thx Peter
 
Hi Peter,

i´m sure with this msd ignition you have to delete the ballast resistor - did you? Maybe that´s the cause for weak spark - low voltage due to the resistor.

Make sure everythings grounded good. Don´t know the wiring details, the manual should tell clearly.

Regarding TDC: same with my damper, i made a new tdc mark and use a timing tape. I personally always check tdc at cylinder 1, with heads on you can use a straw or something, put it into the spark plug hole.

Michael
 
Hi Michael i delete the ballast resistor allready i also tried directly 12volt from the battery still a bad spark, i also made a new negative cable from my battery to the negative cable and to the chassy, but my plus cable is still 40 years old i will change that one too and i also will try a good optima battery, my friend will help me this week im sure that something with the main cables or the battery is wrong cause i installed everything new, the distributor just have 3 cables one goes to the negative of coil one to positive of the coil and one to ground, i also tried this one directly to my battery, if this still dont help a devil is inside and i will call judas priest8)
 
You are using what, an MSD box and ??? for distributor?

Have you checked supply voltage to be sure you are ACTUALLY getting good voltage to the box? Ground?

How about dist? You using a Mopar breakerless dist? Checked the reluctor gap?
 
Hi guys i thought it were the spark plug wires maybe so i go to a shop and bought a new one, but the spark isnt better i made a video maybe u guys knew what the problem is, i have 4 cables on my distributor the orange one goes to - coil the red one goes to + coil and another cables from + coil i put directly to the battery + it also says i have to put the gray one to to tach input? But i think that isnt important for a spark at first right? And the black one i put directly to the battery -!


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Can it be that my startet is not strong enough that the engine is durning to slow???

Here is a video

http://www.youtube.com/embed/eudy0ZN0IWY?hl=de&fs=1

Thanks Peter
 
The starter sounds like it's cranking fine. I'm not familiar with those distributors at all. What is in it for a pickup? Does it have a magnetic pickup like a Mopar breakerless dist? Can you adjust the gap in the pickup/ reluctor?

Take the cap off and see if it appears to be a bent shaft. Wiggle the shaft sideways and judge how much slop is in the bushings, or better yet, remove the dist. from the engine so you can get a real feel for what's going on.

My guess is this is a distributor/ pickup problem.

Judging form the spark WHEN IT WORKS, I'd guess not a voltage problem, not a coil problem. COULD be something in the electronics package, but I'd suspect the dist/ pickup area first.

I'm not tryin' to chastise you, but this is one reason I don't like to run non--OEM parts. In order to "be safe" in case of trouble, you just about have to have a complete identical MSD system on hand when things go south.
 
That's called the "intermediate shaft." I read somewhere that someone claimed one came loose, and man, I find that one difficult to believe, but maybe. That is, however, why I suggest you pull the dist. so you can examine it more closely.
 
yes i will try that soon, one time a week ago i tried a china distributor and the shaft dont goes in so easy as the real msd ones or oem ones then i grind that one to take it in, i didnt have a spark then and i want to put that distributor out, BUT THEN THE intermediate shaft COMES OUT TOO and i just put it in, that why i was asking if that part could be my problem too and if how and why?

Thanks alot for ur time!!!
 
My first question was how you are checking the spark, but then I saw your video. Why is it titled "426 small block". I am guessing your engine is 318 cu in. The spark looks strong when it does fire. Perhaps you don't have a good ground connection thru the painted top of the master cylinder. When I hookup a spark plug like that, I run a small alligator clip lead from the battery neg. to the outside of the plug. Better to get an in-line spark tester from Harbor Freight. You could also arrange the spark wire end to sit ~1/8" from a good (unpainted) ground on the engine.

Not familiar with that MSD distributor, but my guess is it is similar to the Pertronix Ignitor (under-the-cap igniter module), but maybe with a Chrysler reluctor wheel. If so, it should work. You could always remove the distributor and spin the rotor by hand to save your starter.

Re your other questions like how to orient the intermediate shaft slot and checking timing, search for a few recent answers I made to similar posts. One problem with the magnetic pickups is that the rotor needs to spin fairly fast to work. With points or a DC type pickup like the Crane XR700 optical one I use is that you can slowly turn the crank by hand and see exactly when it fires rel. to your timing mark. You didn't explain how you determined "when engine is at TDC" since you say the timing mark appears off. Did you stick a wire in the spark plug hole to see the piston move?
 
I just got back from Google and MSD, and I have to say, "I ain't impressed." I had to dig and DIG into the back dark unused pages of their catalog just to find a picture of the pickup coil, and that it's actually repaceable, something that should have been right in the destructions. Judging from the pictorial of the pickup and reluctor (star wheel) It does not seem to be adjustable.

I'd still take a careful look in the distributor

Wiggle the shaft, look for play

Check the star wheel carefully for damage, broken, bent, or magnetic "junk" inside the dist

Check that the pickup wheel/ mounting plate has not come loose.

I'm still basing this on the intermittent nature of the spark.

DEFINATELY pull the cap and crank the engine, looking for looseness, or something not rotating.

(Once, in a previous life, I found a GM distributor that had broken the "top hat" assembly loose from the shaft, and was not turning all the time, and certainly OUT of time.)
 
OH, HELL. TAKE A GOOD LOOK at your cap Do you actually have the coil wire plugged into the center of the distributor, insead of a spark plug wire tower?

IS this a plug wire or the coil wire you are checking spark from?

Take a good look at the rotor / and cap for cracking/ moisture/ dirt/ carbon tracking

IF you are checking spark with a plug wire hooked to the cap, there's not a damn thing wrong with that spark.
 
[IF you are checking spark with a plug wire hooked to the cap, there's not a damn thing wrong with that spark]

I agree, I don't think that you have a spark problem. It appears pretty strong in that video. You should find TDC on the compression stroke and start over again. JMHO
 
To continue 67Dart273's comments, hook the spark plug direct to the wire coming out of the coil. That takes the spark distribution out of the picture. You should see 4 strong sparks per revolution. If so, the ignition part is good and you have a problem with "spark distribution", which could be due to cracked cap, "wrong timing", "rotor mis-phased".

Once you get it idling, you need a timing light to go further, or just advance until it runs best (fastest speed or lowest vacuum), then retard it a bit if you get pinging on hills.
 
@BillGrissom i checked my spark at the master cylinder yes just for the video, but before i also was checking it at the battery of negative it wasnt even better!

At all i put every spark plug wires away from the distributor just one spark plug wire from the coil to my distributor and one from the distributor with a spark plug to ground, the spark looks strong yes but isnt it to slowly just 1 spark in every 1 1/2 seconds? Also at my distributor cap i forgot to tell you that around 4 sparks came out of the top of the cap??

And yes i knew how to set my engine at TDC now i also checked when the 1 piston is up on the top and i also have a timing light, but before i try to start my engine i need a good spark and i dont have one, also when i use the timing light at the first cylinder and i crank the engine it wont flash at my timing light

the title says 426 small block because its not a 318
that is my engine
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/4feb2008smallblock426strokerdynotest.php

but thx all for ur helps maybe we will find it out soon!

Thx Peter
 
After all that it seems it's doing exactly what it is supposed to do.
Am I missing something here, or do I see a spark every time that engine turns over 360 degrees?
You do know that you wont get 8 sparks out of one wire when the engine turn 360 degrees, right?
 
Moparornocar51 said:
i put every spark plug wires away from the distributor just one spark plug wire from the coil to my distributor and one from the distributor with a spark plug to ground, the spark looks strong yes but isnt it to slowly just 1 spark in every 1 1/2 seconds? Also at my distributor cap i forgot to tell you that around 4 sparks came out of the top of the cap??
Click to expand...

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with your spark.

The reason it is sparking part of the time, part of the time "not" is because you are using a spark plug wire output from the cap

the reason the cap is arcing (BAD DO NOT DO THAT) is because you don't have the rest of the wires hooked up.

TO CHECK SPARK either use the coil wire REMOVED from the cap or else temporarily hook a spark plug wire to the coil

OR BETTER YET use a grounded probe/ screwdriver, and hold it right at the top of the distributor tower


DO NOT crank the engine with ignition on and NO spark gap hooked up.

YOU CAN KILL the electronic ignition module that way.

WHY? Because ignition is just like lightning. It will find the easiest path to ground. With the spark plug wires unhooked, and the cap arcing, the coil is producing TREMENDOUS voltage which is "looking for" a place to go.

This very high, abnormal voltage is much much higher than normal operation. That is because normally, the SMALL spark plug gaps "suck down" the peak voltage from the coil.

With the cap arcing over at you mentioned, this VERY high voltage is "reflecting" back into the electronic module of your ignition system.

DO NOT EVER operate an ignition system with a plug wire or several plug wires unhooked.
 
When you accidently pulled your intermediate shaft, you probably installed it back in a few teeth off.
Start from square 1. using a remote trigger, bump engine over untill your thumb is blown off #1 plug hole.
Look @ your timing mark, it may be before or a little after TDC. Rotate crank bolt to align marks to TDC.
Verify! that rotor is pointing @ #1 plug tower.
Rotate dist. to where it`s pointing to #1, if you made up wires pretty short, it`s best to adjust with inter. shaft.
2 teeth off can equal 90 deg. of rotation, and this can put a vac. adv. can pointing toward front instead of passenger fender.
Do all this and verify firing order! 18436572, and she should bark to life.
Those broken terminals should still work but I would replace them for peace of mind. That`s why when I ordered plug wires I got the 90deg. ends factory made and assembled the straight boots, much easier.
 
Thx u all guys i will try all ur tips soon when i have time and then i will see how its going on, for sure i will let u updatet, thx PETER
 
Thanks all you guys finally i got this bad ***** run, allways when the number 1 piston was on the top, the rotor allways showed to the 2. cylinder so i turned the intermediate shaft to the first cylinder and bought new spark plugs and wires!

But when i go over 5000 rpm then the v-belt jumps out i guess i have to install a serpentine kit! U guys knew a good site where this stuff isnt to expensive?

Thx Peter
 
Moparornocar51 said:
Thanks all you guys finally i got this bad ***** run, allways when the number 1 piston was on the top, the rotor allways showed to the 2. cylinder so i turned the intermediate shaft to the first cylinder and bought new spark plugs and wires!

But when i go over 5000 rpm then the v-belt jumps out i guess i have to install a serpentine kit! U guys knew a good site where this stuff isnt to expensive?

Thx Peter
Click to expand...

Sounds like your belt and pulleys aren't in alignment. You might need to make shims to get everything to where it needs to be.
 
Moparornocar51 said:
But when i go over 5000 rpm then the v-belt jumps out i guess i have to install a serpentine kit! U guys knew a good site where this stuff isnt to expensive?
Click to expand...

There are thousands of hot cars running over 5k or years on V belts. Check your pulleys carefully for alignment, dents, damage, dirt/ debri impacted inside the pully, the fit and tension of the belts, and how tight is stuff like the alternator mounted? Any movement under speed?

As a last resort change the belts, and make sure they are not too wide / too narrow.

You don't need expensive sperpentine conversions to keep belts on your engine.
 
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