Big Block power with better heads???

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1967 'cuda said:
Interesting... I realize you're not aiming for the restoration market with your concept but rather for the guys tweaking as much HP as they can out of their motors. - So the purists out there may cringe at the idea of putting Chebby parts on their cars but most likely the blocks would be actually using aftermarket heads from those companies like Brodix - not Chevrolet. Once people wrap their heads (no pun intended) around the concept that they're not committing sacrilege adding parts off a GM to their cars they may accept it.

There isn't a Mopar owner that hasn't realized how much more expensive it is to build a Chrysler than brand X. - But most of us bite the bullet and pony up because of our devotion to our Mopars. Head selection has hurt us. Most aftermarket companies have been less likely to devote the engineering costs for Mopars because the market is smaller.

Intake & exhaust may be your biggest obstacle. - The low cost solution may end up awfully expensive.

Good luck with your idea and I hope it pans out. Why would it matter to some if they were telling folks they were running Brodix instead of Edelbrock or Trick Flow?
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Well there are inherently a few obstacles. Honestly the idea came up because the lack of blocks available to begin with. That being said we have 14k wrapped up in two blocks for a couple of customers that bit the bullet and we pulled the trigger on a pair of BMP blocks. Don't get me wrong, they are works of art, but 7k a block after final machining is a lot of money for anyone. So we thought about getting into casting blocks of our own design, that quickly turned into the fear of copyright infringement which would be a huge issue. So if you are going to change the design of the block enough to get away from the previous stated issue, why not go for broke and share some of the luxuries that brand x guys have and that's killer top end parts. The intake would be a trick for sure, but its all do able. We finished one big block and its going low 9's, the same platform with better heads and it would be an 8.50 or better piece with no real hard work. An engine is like a human body, the bottom are your legs, the cam is the brain and the top half are your lungs, you can have great legs and be smart, but if you cant breathe you wont be going anywhere very quickly lol. Thank you for your input sir.
 
I like both the GM and BBM, have always said that if you put some shaft rockers on the chevy then you got something to work with so to me motors is motors pretty much, they all do the same thing. I have a host of chevy parts on my BBM already including the trans.
 
the67fish said:
I like both the GM and BBM, have always said that if you put some shaft rockers on the chevy then you got something to work with so to me motors is motors pretty much, they all do the same thing. I have a host of chevy parts on my BBM already including the trans.
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This is very true, also a lot of guys fail to realize that their rod journals are big block chevy. In the world of pro stock they are Honda rod journals. I mean we love to be different, this is part of the reason for this idea but I firmly believe that if done properly no one person would mistake the engine for a Mopar if the hood were off. Yeah the heads would be different to say the least but I am not trying to talk the guy with the numbers matching 67 gtx to build this engine for his platform. Just want to make a better bullet at the end of the day and something that is closer in reach to the average mopar guy that wants to go fast. Doing it all mopar is down right expensive. But this route might be more tolerable. If a guy wants to make good power he is already looking for an aftermarket block. This just frees up the top end to become more economical in the grand scheme of things. It will never be cheap, but it could be the difference between going in the 9's to the 8's or faster.
 
So are you talking about a skirted crossbolt Mopar style block with the BB Chevy bore spacing?
 
ssba said:
So are you talking about a skirted crossbolt Mopar style block with the BB Chevy bore spacing?
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Yes sir that is correct, change the lifter bore angles and the bore spacing as well as the bolt pattern for the heads. Come up with an intake combination or adapter that will work and it all sounds so easy lol. But essentially try to make something that can be built at a chevy price and make similar power.
 
Great idea for the racers, IF you can price the block at an wallet-appealing rate. Haven't seen much new stuff that's reasonable. Also, would these blocks be cast and machined here, in the States?
 
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with mopar purist and mopar stroker motor available, i wouldn't even consider a chevy head. don't waste your time. thats a vary narrow market to sell in.
 
also i would try an ask some of the other company to see what their yearly sales in units are in specialty heads or blocks. For example if x company only sells 10,000 specialty heads to chevy guys. that may give you an idea to figure out if your short run profit might we worth sticking it out in the long run. you may need 5-10 years before mopar guys catch the hype.
 
Great idea, but, i honestly don't think that it would sell much and be cost effective.
What comes to mind is that people would just put a BBC in their Mopar, mount it, and build exhaust if they wanted this sort of configuration.
I think you should spend time on a different head design for the BBM rather than a block design that uses the BBC heads, and that will keep the purists on board with you.
You are looking at a very niche market here, think of Sonny's engines, but a lot cheaper.........
I think it would be trick, but the R&D costs would bankrupt you unless you had a lot of backing.
I'm not particularly brand loyal, and do recognize the benefits from your idea, but selling it to the public would be tough IMHO.
I for one would go with 2nd gen Hemi if i wanted that kind of power, and you have the looks to boot. That's tough to beat.
 
I would ask on moparts, they have lots of threads on aftermarket blocks over there. You would get lots of ideas and opinions.
 
A dohc 4-valve version has far more interest to me.
 
I run a Stage V conversion heads on a 440 block and at the time it was because Hemi blocks could make you bleed from everywere on price and condition. The heads used Hemi intake manifolds and valve covers so you could use off the shelf parts to complete your engine. So with that being said what about the intake and other sheet metal I don't think street guys are the market you are looking at but if you now have to fab a good sheet metal intake, and headers to fit a chassis are we getting into a lot of expense with a block a GOOD set of heads that make power and custom intake and headers are you getting to the price of a Hemi that has by far the best heads ever. Just my 1 1/2 cents on this
 
MMissile said:
Great idea for the racers, IF you can price the block at an wallet-appealing rate. Haven't seen much new stuff that's reasonable. Also, would these blocks be cast and machined here, in the States?
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Yes this would be here in the states, just like Dart and World. Thank you for your input sir.
 
Dartnut said:
Great idea, but, i honestly don't think that it would sell much and be cost effective.
What comes to mind is that people would just put a BBC in their Mopar, mount it, and build exhaust if they wanted this sort of configuration.
I think you should spend time on a different head design for the BBM rather than a block design that uses the BBC heads, and that will keep the purists on board with you.
You are looking at a very niche market here, think of Sonny's engines, but a lot cheaper.........
I think it would be trick, but the R&D costs would bankrupt you unless you had a lot of backing.
I'm not particularly brand loyal, and do recognize the benefits from your idea, but selling it to the public would be tough IMHO.
I for one would go with 2nd gen Hemi if i wanted that kind of power, and you have the looks to boot. That's tough to beat.
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I can agree with your logic sir I really can, the problem with designing a head, there is so much more that goes into that and when its all said and done, there is still no block to bolt it too. It would not be easy for sure, but wanted to throw the idea out there.
 
hemi446 said:
I run a Stage V conversion heads on a 440 block and at the time it was because Hemi blocks could make you bleed from everywere on price and condition. The heads used Hemi intake manifolds and valve covers so you could use off the shelf parts to complete your engine. So with that being said what about the intake and other sheet metal I don't think street guys are the market you are looking at but if you now have to fab a good sheet metal intake, and headers to fit a chassis are we getting into a lot of expense with a block a GOOD set of heads that make power and custom intake and headers are you getting to the price of a Hemi that has by far the best heads ever. Just my 1 1/2 cents on this
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Well this is def something that does not have a street market appeal. We are looking more at a race set up. I feel that it could be done cheaper than a hemi if it is engineered correctly. That will be the trick of the entire project, to be able to use the least amount of custom parts possible. If done properly we think we could get away with spacers for shelf stock intake manifolds. The heads would all be shelf stock stuff, the cam and pistons would be custom, but for most racers those are items that are already down that route. We tend to only build mild street engines anymore that use shelf stock pistons with engineering costs coming down for dealers like ourselves, we can get custom pistons for reasonable cost these days. For us to grind a custom comp cam, it is no different in price. We are still ironing out details but your input is greatly appreciated sir. Thank you
 
Why reinvent the wheel ? If it is cost saving HP your after build the Chevy BB ? If it's ultimate HP your after build a Hemi! Designing a Chevy head to fit a recast Mopar block, Whats is the advantage, your not building ultimate HP and your damn sure not going to save anyone money?
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
Why reinvent the wheel ? If it is cost saving HP your after build the Chevy BB ? If it's ultimate HP your after build a Hemi! Designing a Chevy head to fit a recast Mopar block, Whats is the advantage, your not building ultimate HP and your damn sure not going to save anyone money?
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Well unless its a fuel application, it is cheaper to build a chevy and make more power then a hemi. Even to go through all of this it would be cheaper, this is thought up to make affordable horsepower that you just can not make with a wedge and with a hemi it can get down right stupid money.
 
barbee6043 said:
i understand the concept. just give me a 426 hemi I can afford!? ha
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I wish that were the answer, but with those four little letters the price always seems to go through the roof. This is all geared towards being affordable for the average guy who wants to go fast but still have the distributor up front.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
Why reinvent the wheel ? If it is cost saving HP your after build the Chevy BB ? If it's ultimate HP your after build a Hemi! Designing a Chevy head to fit a recast Mopar block, Whats is the advantage, your not building ultimate HP and your damn sure not going to save anyone money?
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The advantage lies in the heads really, you don't have a lot of selection of hemi heads these days as well. its either full tilt way to big of a head and then the price tag or some ok heads at best. With chevy heads, there is so much development already and used parts are everywhere, plus dollar for dollar and cfm for cfm you cant beat a BBC head. Just open a brodix catalog anymore and it becomes clear how bad *** they can be. We already have glides behind our engines and a lot of guys running a 9 inch. How is this any different is our thought. Its not a chevy head, its a brodix or dart ect head. Just like john force with his funny car when he was in a ford, it said boss 500 on it, we all know its a hemi design, but its no longer a Mopar engine really, nothing in them is from Mopar, nascar, pro stock ect ect, nothing about those cars came from the big three. IDK, it might be a bad idea, but it is one we have kicked around for a while now.
 
You'll get no argument from me that the selection of BB Chevy heads is abundant. You asked about building a Mopar block that would accept a BB head? I'm saying you can't build one cheaper than using a BB Chevy short block! Hell look at all the different makers of aftermarket Chevy blocks! You have GM themselves, Merlin, World , Dart, Bill Mitchell , ETC. My point is if you want to build HP as cheap as possible, Just build the Chevy BB in it's entirety.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
You'll get no argument from me that the selection of BB Chevy heads is abundant. You asked about building a Mopar block that would accept a BB head? I'm saying you can't build one cheaper than using a BB Chevy short block! Hell look at all the different makers of aftermarket Chevy blocks! You have GM themselves, Merlin, World , Dart, Bill Mitchell , ETC. My point is if you want to build HP as cheap as possible, Just build the Chevy BB in it's entirety.
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I agree it would be cheaper to do Chevy all the way. Can not deny that what so ever. I think that if the block retains things such as distributor location water pump style, deep skirted block and oiling system it might not hurt a Mopar guy as much in the feelings Dept to try vs going full blown Chevy if that makes sense sir.
 
Perhaps a better way to go is to duplicate the Fred Brewer head? They were getting 475-500 cfm flow ratings out them.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
Perhaps a better way to go is to duplicate the Fred Brewer head? They were getting 475-500 cfm flow ratings out them.
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chevy prostocks are above 500, and have been for quite a while. you can put bigger valves in the big chevy head than a hemi head, w/o interference. if the vavles are kept they same size-hemi all the way.
 
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