Biggest mistake ever- lunati cams

-
I will say this and then you will do what you want.

The margin for error breaking in a cam is very narrow. Anything you can do to get the window open wider is cheap and easy.

Spring pressures, even as low as yours are are not the only consideration.

It doesn’t take long to remove the inners (or not put them in when the heads are going together) and it takes maybe an hour to install them after break in.

There is a reason why guys use lower ratio rockers, take the inners out and go through all the machinations they do to stack the odd in their favor.

You can do everything right and still lose a lobe. Maybe the lifter bore is on the loose side and any extra spring load may inhibit the lifter from rotating. And if that happens it will damn sure go flat.

You are working with 45-50 year old blocks. They move around. Unless you are bushing the lifter bores you are dealing with what you have. They may not be (and probably aren’t) in perfect shape, let alone being on the low side of tolerance.

You are closing the widow tighter by not removing the inners.

Saying if the cam goes flat means it was junk to begin with is very myopic. Yes, it happens. But skipping a simple process to add to the likelihood of success is bad policy.
The reason I always buy New lifters when installing a cam new or used, unless I mark the lifters to the cam lobs while doing my take down. I made a lifter stand years ago for this reason. 16 holes in a 2X4, left and right w/a lid (also from a 2X4) to match the lower section. The time and expense is well worth it as stated above.
 
I was able to use the springs that were spec'd for the cam. When I bought the PKG, I called lunati and talked about it with them before I bought it and there was no issues getting in touch. That was about 3 years ago.
During the build, I heard about the sm heads and decided to go with them so I could get away from buying vp leaded race fuel.
Paid for them to be ready to install but the shop didn't get it right.
Couldn't get an answer from anyone and surely wasn't going back to the shop that screwed me.
Wasted hours and hours on the phone, trying to figure it out, hoping lunati could answer it. Never could so yea,
I was pissed off at them, pissed off at the machine shop, and pissed off about being stuck in a no fire situation. Mad at myself for not being able to find an answer so I lashed out because of being stuck without the knowledge to make it all work. So I blame lunati, the shop, and myself.
I wanted to have the motor installed and fired up for the Carlisle Mopar show coming up and the delay was the cause to realize that isn't going to happen now. That was my goal for a while now but I'm over it. I really wouldn't enjoy sitting in traffic with a fresh motor in the middle of July anyway.
I have installed plenty of cams, mainly Mopar or racer brown and always set the spec'd springs and never ran into any problems. This setup was out of my comfort zone and when I got stuck, I felt that it was a big mistake.
All in all, it was a simple answer by shimming but I also was told not it wasn't a good idea to shim that much so I figured it wasn't going to work out but I found the answer and now back on track so I am a happy camper now. Getting hung up on over and over ruined my respect for lunati. Can't blame the heads cuz I don't speak Chinese, and done with the machine shop who was supposed to solve the issue in the 1st place. I am glad that I was able to finally solve the issue and hopefully the cam will work as it was purchased for. Maybe their cams are good, IDK cuz I never ran that brand before and their support line definitely sucks so doubt I will ever buy another but at least I am able to still finish the build now.
 
Well said, hope it all works out for you.
I was able to use the springs that were spec'd for the cam. When I bought the PKG, I called lunati and talked about it with them before I bought it and there was no issues getting in touch. That was about 3 years ago.
During the build, I heard about the sm heads and decided to go with them so I could get away from buying vp leaded race fuel.
Paid for them to be ready to install but the shop didn't get it right.
Couldn't get an answer from anyone and surely wasn't going back to the shop that screwed me.
Wasted hours and hours on the phone, trying to figure it out, hoping lunati could answer it. Never could so yea,
I was pissed off at them, pissed off at the machine shop, and pissed off about being stuck in a no fire situation. Mad at myself for not being able to find an answer so I lashed out because of being stuck without the knowledge to make it all work. So I blame lunati, the shop, and myself.
I wanted to have the motor installed and fired up for the Carlisle Mopar show coming up and the delay was the cause to realize that isn't going to happen now. That was my goal for a while now but I'm over it. I really wouldn't enjoy sitting in traffic with a fresh motor in the middle of July anyway.
I have installed plenty of cams, mainly Mopar or racer brown and always set the spec'd springs and never ran into any problems. This setup was out of my comfort zone and when I got stuck, I felt that it was a big mistake.
All in all, it was a simple answer by shimming but I also was told not it wasn't a good idea to shim that much so I figured it wasn't going to work out but I found the answer and now back on track so I am a happy camper now. Getting hung up on over and over ruined my respect for lunati. Can't blame the heads cuz I don't speak Chinese, and done with the machine shop who was supposed to solve the issue in the 1st place. I am glad that I was able to finally solve the issue and hopefully the cam will work as it was purchased for. Maybe their cams are good, IDK cuz I never ran that brand before and their support line definitely sucks so doubt I will ever buy another but at least I am able to still finish the build now.
 
Just curious. Did you get the heads back on yet?
 
The voodoo cams work really well. I prefer them to the XE comp line.

Get it broken in, tune it up and enjoy the car.
 
Maybe you can now appreciate the difference between a REAL "engine builder" and a "parts assembler" and your machine shop sounds incompetent

If not incompetent, they AND the customer did not do their due diligence to completely understand what the customer wanted. The customer absolutely must know what he wants and provide that information to the shop.

If I take a block to the machinist and tell him to bore out my block a lot so I can fit bigger pistons, I can't complain if he bores them 0.040 when I wanted 0.050 because that's what pistons I picked up on craigslist are. Now, the machinist failing to ask for that information will quickly put him out of business because that angry customer will both complain on forums and Yelp because he's a dumbass, whether it is deserved or not.

As a customer it is your duty to know exactly what you want then go hunt that down. If you fail to properly plan your build, that is on you.
 
I'm always curious why nobody mentions Bullet Cams. When I got the SFT cam for my 408 in 2019, I had excellent customer support and constructive conversations to finally pick the lobes and grinding specs. Even which lifter diameter to use! I would say everything we discussed on the phone came out exactly as I had planned as far as the cam. I have a tad more cam than cyl head but that was planned as I may upgrade the heads at some point.

Anyhow, it's not about me, just wondering why nobody mentions Bullet for cams.
 
I'm always curious why nobody mentions Bullet Cams. When I got the SFT cam for my 408 in 2019, I had excellent customer support and constructive conversations to finally pick the lobes and grinding specs. Even which lifter diameter to use! I would say everything we discussed on the phone came out exactly as I had planned as far as the cam. I have a tad more cam than cyl head but that was planned as I may upgrade the heads at some point.

Anyhow, it's not about me, just wondering why nobody mentions Bullet for cams.

They have some very good lobes, but for me their philosophy is different enough from mine that I don’t use them.
 
If not incompetent, they AND the customer did not do their due diligence to completely understand what the customer wanted. The customer absolutely must know what he wants and provide that information to the shop.

If I take a block to the machinist and tell him to bore out my block a lot so I can fit bigger pistons, I can't complain if he bores them 0.040 when I wanted 0.050 because that's what pistons I picked up on craigslist are. Now, the machinist failing to ask for that information will quickly put him out of business because that angry customer will both complain on forums and Yelp because he's a dumbass, whether it is deserved or not.

As a customer it is your duty to know exactly what you want then go hunt that down. If you fail to properly plan your build, that is on you.
My intentions were fully explained to the shop before the work was done. I had them shaved to 63cc to have the compression where I wanted. I also had the pockets matched and seats re cut for 3angles. Gave him the cam chart and told him that I needed the springs installed. A few weeks later, I was told they were ready to pick up but when I arrived, I noticed that the springs were what came on them from the factory. The lunati springs were on my stock heads still and I told them that they needed to be put on the speedmaster heads and leave the inner springs out for break in again. He said to stop back the next day and it would be done. I was going to break it in on his dyno as I did with a previous motor. Next day I picked them up and installed them on the block. My bill was 1100$. 2 yrs later the car was back from the paint shop and I was at the point where it was time to install it but I still had to set preload etc. I noticed that the dampers were also taken out so I decided to install them myself. That's when I noticed that they were way shorter than the ones removed and by chance the originals were sitting on a shelf nearby. That's when I found out the difference in installed height. I questioned him and he told me to call comp cams and find springs that would work. Well comp cams had the same recording as lunati and I was trying to contact them both to see if they had the springs I needed. The shop should have checked that when they changed the springs over. I shouldn't have had to tell them how to do their job. What kind of machine shop, especially a race shop would just take spring and not check them? They already had their money and left me with a catastrophic failure waiting to happen. I cannot explain it any clearer. If you think I should be at blame for that, then so be it.
 
My intentions were fully explained to the shop before the work was done. I had them shaved to 63cc to have the compression where I wanted. I also had the pockets matched and seats re cut for 3angles. Gave him the cam chart and told him that I needed the springs installed. A few weeks later, I was told they were ready to pick up but when I arrived, I noticed that the springs were what came on them from the factory. The lunati springs were on my stock heads still and I told them that they needed to be put on the speedmaster heads and leave the inner springs out for break in again. He said to stop back the next day and it would be done. I was going to break it in on his dyno as I did with a previous motor. Next day I picked them up and installed them on the block. My bill was 1100$. 2 yrs later the car was back from the paint shop and I was at the point where it was time to install it but I still had to set preload etc. I noticed that the dampers were also taken out so I decided to install them myself. That's when I noticed that they were way shorter than the ones removed and by chance the originals were sitting on a shelf nearby. That's when I found out the difference in installed height. I questioned him and he told me to call comp cams and find springs that would work. Well comp cams had the same recording as lunati and I was trying to contact them both to see if they had the springs I needed. The shop should have checked that when they changed the springs over. I shouldn't have had to tell them how to do their job. What kind of machine shop, especially a race shop would just take spring and not check them? They already had their money and left me with a catastrophic failure waiting to happen. I cannot explain it any clearer. If you think I should be at blame for that, then so be it.

You‘re skipping the dyno?? I hope not…
 
I was able to use the springs that were spec'd for the cam. When I bought the PKG, I called lunati and talked about it with them before I bought it and there was no issues getting in touch. That was about 3 years ago.
During the build, I heard about the sm heads and decided to go with them so I could get away from buying vp leaded race fuel.
Paid for them to be ready to install but the shop didn't get it right.
Couldn't get an answer from anyone and surely wasn't going back to the shop that screwed me.
Wasted hours and hours on the phone, trying to figure it out, hoping lunati could answer it. Never could so yea,
I was pissed off at them, pissed off at the machine shop, and pissed off about being stuck in a no fire situation. Mad at myself for not being able to find an answer so I lashed out because of being stuck without the knowledge to make it all work. So I blame lunati, the shop, and myself.
I wanted to have the motor installed and fired up for the Carlisle Mopar show coming up and the delay was the cause to realize that isn't going to happen now. That was my goal for a while now but I'm over it. I really wouldn't enjoy sitting in traffic with a fresh motor in the middle of July anyway.
I have installed plenty of cams, mainly Mopar or racer brown and always set the spec'd springs and never ran into any problems. This setup was out of my comfort zone and when I got stuck, I felt that it was a big mistake.
All in all, it was a simple answer by shimming but I also was told not it wasn't a good idea to shim that much so I figured it wasn't going to work out but I found the answer and now back on track so I am a happy camper now. Getting hung up on over and over ruined my respect for lunati. Can't blame the heads cuz I don't speak Chinese, and done with the machine shop who was supposed to solve the issue in the 1st place. I am glad that I was able to finally solve the issue and hopefully the cam will work as it was purchased for. Maybe their cams are good, IDK cuz I never ran that brand before and their support line definitely sucks so doubt I will ever buy another but at least I am able to still finish the build now.
You should try calling Equifax for a credit report. Go through their titless answering menue and the electronic ***** hangs up. Then you have to phone back and try a different selection somewhere in the choices. Canada Revenue is not much better. Unfortunately this seems to be the way the world is going. Piss people off and hope they give up. But they sure kiss butt like a **** star to get your cash! But do not complain.
 
If not incompetent, they AND the customer did not do their due diligence to completely understand what the customer wanted. The customer absolutely must know what he wants and provide that information to the shop.

If I take a block to the machinist and tell him to bore out my block a lot so I can fit bigger pistons, I can't complain if he bores them 0.040 when I wanted 0.050 because that's what pistons I picked up on craigslist are. Now, the machinist failing to ask for that information will quickly put him out of business because that angry customer will both complain on forums and Yelp because he's a dumbass, whether it is deserved or not.

As a customer it is your duty to know exactly what you want then go hunt that down. If you fail to properly plan your build, that is on you.
You can take your block or heads to the machine shop and ask them to clean and inspect the parts and give you an estimate with bore oversize required, guides and seats machining or replacement, line bore if required and decking. Then you can get the parts to deliver to the shop, or have the shop supply the proper parts.
 
MerlinsMopar,

I know exactly what you mean being stuck in the middle and feeling helpless at times. I recently upgraded the top end on my 360 and I had to work with a machine shop and a mechanic guy both of whom I dont know, dont have history with and are well recommended. One thing I had going for me was they both know each other and had done work for others similar to what I was doing before. The work was done on time and on budget but there were some hiccups, mostly due to a lack of communication. I learned not to assume that people read your emails thoroughly enough to understand. So i follow up an email with a phone call or visit to make sure everything is understood, especially deadlines, which some people think are flexible and others not. Also dealing with entrepreneurial types can be interesting especially if they are self made.

I'm on a bit of a rant here so I'm just going to keep going; I do get a bit tired of fellow Moparians trashing certain products they had a bad experience with. Companies like Comp Cam, Edelbrock and Lunati didn't get as big as they are by selling crap. All companies make defective products and it's how they handle that instance that differentiates them IMHO.

So anyway, it sounds like you are in a better place and your right, who want's to sit in summer heat with a fresh hot rod engine wondering what is going to happen next. Rock on Brother
 
I'm always curious why nobody mentions Bullet Cams. When I got the SFT cam for my 408 in 2019, I had excellent customer support and constructive conversations to finally pick the lobes and grinding specs. Even which lifter diameter to use! I would say everything we discussed on the phone came out exactly as I had planned as far as the cam. I have a tad more cam than cyl head but that was planned as I may upgrade the heads at some point.

Anyhow, it's not about me, just wondering why nobody mentions Bullet for cams.
My buddy is doing a budget 360 build for his Dart. He had great success with small Lunati Voodoo cam in a 383 he had, so I told him to get another Voodoo cam. Lunati gladly took his money, then wouldn’t answer the phone when he called for updates on his order. The machine shop that did the work on his 360 wasn’t a big fan of Lunati and talked him out of it, so I told him to call Bullet. They immediately answered the phone and they spec’ed a cam for him and now it’s just a waiting game for them to grind it.
 
I loved the purple shafts. I had a motor built by jegs 45 yrs ago by jegs and the stuck a racer brown cam in there. That was an awesome cam and recently built another 340 with those same specs. I called him at racer brown, as the original owner passed on.
Was a lil difficult to get a hold of on the phone and suggested times to actually call. He was an employee there but took over when the boss moved on. He asked for every bit of info about the build and the cam showed up In about a month. There was no question that that cam was ground for my request. It was the replica of what came in that jegs motor 45 yrs ago and scares the hell out of my friends and many people who drive by that car every time I run it. I can't ask for any better assistance.
Racer Brown is awesome. Why did I but a lunati?
Still not sure but I will post about it once I fire this motor up.
 
My buddy is doing a budget 360 build for his Dart. He had great success with small Lunati Voodoo cam in a 383 he had, so I told him to get another Voodoo cam. Lunati gladly took his money, then wouldn’t answer the phone when he called for updates on his order. The machine shop that did the work on his 360 wasn’t a big fan of Lunati and talked him out of it, so I told him to call Bullet. They immediately answered the phone and they spec’ed a cam for him and now it’s just a waiting game for them to grind it.
I agree, Bullet tech staff is helpful and informative.
 
Both of my 340's has the DC Purple shaft cams. Bad to the bone for what I need.
I loved the purple shafts. I had a motor built by jegs 45 yrs ago by jegs and the stuck a racer brown cam in there. That was an awesome cam and recently built another 340 with those same specs. I called him at racer brown, as the original owner passed on.
Was a lil difficult to get a hold of on the phone and suggested times to actually call. He was an employee there but took over when the boss moved on. He asked for every bit of info about the build and the cam showed up In about a month. There was no question that that cam was ground for my request. It was the replica of what came in that jegs motor 45 yrs ago and scares the hell out of my friends and many people who drive by that car every time I run it. I can't ask for any better assistance.
Racer Brown is awesome. Why did I but a lunati?
Still not sure but I will post about it once I fire this motor up
 
Maybe you can now appreciate the difference between a REAL "engine builder" and a "parts assembler" and your machine shop sounds incompetent
To the OP & forum;

While I enjoy screwing my own engines together, sometimes I will pass the puck on the short block. It makes sense in some cases to let the engine builder do the work. Currently, I have not the space (awaiting on a few things for a garage to be built) and in my last house, the room to happily work on an engine build.

While I have put together more than just a couple of engines, there intended performance levels were never a level of what I would call high HP output race quality.

There is always something that pops up when doing things yourself and you can’t always see the caveat coming even if you think you did all the homework. IMO, unless you have all the tools and devices to basically compare to a machine shop and the engine builder, the option of paying the piper, the engine builder, is a more prudent path.

I fully advocate building your own engine but it can be a huge PIA when one of those pitfalls hit you square in the nose.

In my latest case, Replicarracer43 above has my short block stuff and I gave him the green light to assemble the short block so I’m ready to go. He will set me up and save me a lot of headache pain.
 
Every time the spec a cam for me I could do better drunk, blindfolded and throwing a dart at a catalog.

And I see some of the **** grinds they pick for other people.
Just curious.. you posted that you have a different philosophy when picking a cam... what is the philosophy if you don't mind.. just trying to learn... i am ok with my selection.. cause i haven't run it yet :) but always willing to learn more.
 
Just curious.. you posted that you have a different philosophy when picking a cam... what is the philosophy if you don't mind.. just trying to learn... i am ok with my selection.. cause i haven't run it yet :) but always willing to learn more.

At this point, it’s changing SLIGHTLY but I have to do some testing to make sure I’m not going down the garden path to the bottomless rabbit hole.

I pick my @.050 duration based on (mostly) stroke length, then bore size and where I want peak torque to occur.

My math says most of the cams most of the cam grinders calls out doesn’t have enough timing. So they do the easy thing, which is throw some exhaust duration at it (although maybe with some testing I my be slightly LESS opposed to it) and blow the LSA out to get some RPM out of the engine.

And they do that KNOWING they are killing the middle of the torque curve (which is really where all the “street” guys want their power and they bellyache about not enough torque and then they buy a cam that kills power in the middle) because they think (maybe they know) the end user isn’t capable or won’t take the time to clean up the idle and tune the carb and distributor to make the right cam work.

Most of the lobes these cam grinders call out don’t use near enough lift.

The LSA is almost universally too wide for the application.

The @.050 timing is usually not enough and the seat to seat timing is way too long.
 
-
Back
Top