Body work for dummies...

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danmc77

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Ok, I know this has been addressed a hundred times, and Adam, I saw your tech thread too. But I am very close at taking my first stab at body work, and need some direction on how to start. Now I mean I need it really broken down to the smallest detail. I just get confused as to what the proper order is, and what products I need.

My first project is a Duster. I need to replace the lower portions of the quarters on both sides below the mid body line. In addition, I need to replace or patch the trunk extensions. Other than that, the car is solid, w/o body damage - should be a good first-time body project. My plan is to paint it Hemi Orange, with a flat-black hood and side window treatment. I guess I'll be buying repro skins and cutting sections for the lower quarters (need more material than what the partial patch pieces offer, so I need a full skin)

Now, I have a good welder, a nice auto-tinting mask and plan to get an assortment of long sanding blocks. I have a DA sander too. I also have a new set of body hammers and dollies, as well as a cheap paint gun set (Eastwood, two size tips, and a small gun for detail work). I have a grinder, and a variable-speed polisher.

My questions:

-as far as removing paint, what's the best approach? I'd like to get the car down to bare metal. What power tools are recommended, and are there any tools out there NOT recommended (wire brushes, coarse grit).

-What step is first? after I remove the paint, I need to do the metal work - do I prime or seal the car first? If so, does filler go over the sealer/primer? Other than shaping and sanding the spots that have filler, does the rest of the car need to be sanded before the next step?

-What's next? After the metal work is done (including filler and fixing dents), Do I prime it again or seal it?

-I plan to remove the body panels and do the bulk of the work on stands individually, at what point do I worry about panel alignment? How can i do body work if I don't know how the panels fit together? Is it best to leave them on the car to ensure good panel fitment? At what point do I align panels on the car?

- metal work; what cutting discs do you recommend to cut panels to fit patch panels or quarter skins? Is there any danger of warping from heat - if so any recommended techniques?


I know that's a lot of info to ask, but I'm sure I'll still have questions:-D
 
Heres how I would tackle it. Start with the trunk and extension patches. There a good place to practice metal work . If your weld are perfect who cares, Grind them down, try again, paint it and cover it with a mat.

Next move on the the quarter patches. I would start by stripping the entire 1/4 down before you cut your patches. You may end up with more rust then you think. I usually DA the panel with 80 to remove the paint. You could also use a paint stripper

Once you found what needs to be patched cut out the rust, trim your patch and grind the area to be welded. You may want to pick up a good angle grinder.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=5211&itemType=PRODUCT

Cut the rust out about an inch past were it stops (in to clean metal) Trim you patch to fit.

Once its welded in, Grind down the weld being carefull to not grin to much and warp the panel or grind through it.

Now you can do your filler work over the seem. We use Evercoat. I usually start by feathering in the filler with some 80 grit on the DA being careful not to take to much off. Then I switch to a long block with 80 and block it flat.

You can spray a bit of flat black paint (I use cheap sandable primer from walmart or autozone) for a guide coat to make sure the filler is level or you can buy some 3M dry guide coat which is a powered. You will most likely need to add a second coat of filler to get it flat and feathered out.

If you have any pin holes in the filler you can add a coat of polyester finishing and blending putty. Use a good 2 part product like Metal Glaze by Evercoat. http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=11052&itemType=PRODUCT
You can black the putty down with 180 on your long board.

Once the filler work is done and straight you can lay down some primer. I would use a good Epoxy like PPG DP series. However you have a certain window of time to top coat is before you have to scuff it and reaply.

Your best bet will probably be to strip and prime it down panel at a time. When all your body work is done, Scuff it and re shoot the epoxy.

Once you have the new coat of epoxy on your going to want to get a sandable primer/surfacer on the car. Theres a few ways to go here. At the shop I work at we use Robelco Filler primer, Is a 2K primer, spray 4 caosts, let it dry for a few days, shoot some guide coat and start blocking with 180.

You can also use a product like slick sand http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=17574&itemType=PRODUCT

or feather fill
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=17571&itemType=PRODUCT

Ive never used any of these products but I hear they work great and would love to try them.

If your not in a big rush, I would spray your primer, feather fill or what ever you choose and let it sit for a few weeks. Let all the chemicals dry up and gas out.

Then block with 180 stopping when you cut through to the layer under neath which would be the epoxy.

Next apply another 4 coats of primer. If you still have a bunch of high and low spots you can block with 180 again, if not move to 220. Dont forget your guide coat.

If you have a panel that needs more work then others you can prime that panel and black it till your happy

Now it should be pretty straight, couple more coats of primer, guide coat and 400 grit wet, Use plenty of water and a few drops of liquid soap in the bucket.

After the 400, wet sand with 600 wet. You shouldnt need more primer between coats.

One thing to remember is that by the second round of blocking it should be pretty straight and you should be removing a good amount of the primer you put on. It may seem waist full but you just want to fill low spots not keep building up the thickness of the meterial. Any high spots you find after the first and second round should be tapped down with your hammer. The more primer you have on it, the more likely it will chip.

When your ready for paint your going to spray a sealer, Usually its a reduced epoxy. You want to do this with in hours of spraying color.

Next comes paint, 3 or 4 coats of color followed by 3 or 4 coats of clear.

As far as your black out, you may want to use a product like SEMs, Hot Rod black or a black base with a flat clear. What ever you do make sure its compatible with your base/clear or what ever paint your using.
 
Awesome Adam - thanks for the detailed response!

For the panels such as the trunk floor and trunk gutter - panels w/o a flat surface - what type of disc/tool would you use to get the paint off?

Also, if I do it panel-by-panel, as sugested - what do I scuff it with to prep for the epoxy re-shoot?
 
Thanks again Adam - I can't think of any other questions - hopefully by Summer, I'll have a nice new paint job for my car!!

You know, some things seem so intimidating when you've never done it before - my goal is to be able to do EVERYTHING to restore my cars. I've done engine rebuilds, interior re-upulsty, suspension rebuilds, tranny rebuilds, rear ends, brakes, etc. I've always figured I'd have to pay someone else to pant my cars - not any more. I definetly think I have the patience and motivation to do my own body work. Thanks to your help and the help of so many others on this board, I know I can do this. Thanks!
 
Dude,I could not have said it better and I have lots of body shop experience!

I will add one thing. Very helpfull in controlling heat while welding,compressed air can be used to cool things down.

O.K ,one more thing..lol

Take your time while welding. Stitch weld around the perimeter. Dont start with a corner or edge. Tack it down in the middle of a seam. Make sure you have some gap iin fitting the panel. This will allow for expansion as the metal heats and help prevent warping. I butt weld and make an even gap by running my small zip cutter through each seam. Dont remove tons. Just ensure the gap. Hardly any grinding is needed with this method.

Good luck and be patient!Body work takes time. If you get frustrated/impatient take a break/have a beer.:)

HASTE MAKES WASTE!
 
Actually - I do have a few more questions.

-you mention that the Epoxy only has "x" amount of time after being sprayed (the PPG Dp series) - I expect that this will be a several month long project, so I assume that's too long - So all I have to do is scuff and re-spray and it'll be fine?

- what product do you use to clean the panels after you lay down the filler and spray the primers? Do they get wiped down between every coat?

- as far as actually spraying color - is there any sanding between coats, or just a color sand and buff after the clear is sprayed? How about in between coats of clear? Do i need to sand, scuff, wipe clean, anything between color/clear coats?
 
needsaresto said:
Dude,I could not have said it better and I have lots of body shop experience!

I will add one thing. Very helpfull in controlling heat while welding,compressed air can be used to cool things down.

O.K ,one more thing..lol

Take your time while welding. Stitch weld around the perimeter. Dont start with a corner or edge. Tack it down in the middle of a seam. Make sure you have some gap iin fitting the panel. This will allow for expansion as the metal heats and help prevent warping. I butt weld and make an even gap by running my small zip cutter through each seam. Dont remove tons. Just ensure the gap. Hardly any grinding is needed with this method.

Good luck and be patient!Body work takes time. If you get frustrated/impatient take a break/have a beer.:)

HASTE MAKES WASTE!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips - I actually bought a few video tapes from Eastwood to help perfect my welding (well... learn to weld:-D).

I also have those Paintucation tapes - I'm a visual learner - it always helps to actually see someone do it.

So, I'll take my time, and ask TONS of questions.
 
Man this is some good stuff !!!!! Great thread......I am going through the same thing...
 
danmc77 said:
Actually - I do have a few more questions.
Click to expand...

-you mention that the Epoxy only has "x" amount of time after being sprayed (the PPG Dp series) - I expect that this will be a several month long project, so I assume that's too long - So all I have to do is scuff and re-spray and it'll be fine?
Click to expand...

Yes, Just scuff the epoxy and shoot another coat when your ready to prime it for blocking.

What product do you use to clean the panels after you lay down the filler and spray the primers? Do they get wiped down between every coat?
Click to expand...

We use Dupont final clean wipe it down with one clean rag, Wipe it off with another then wipe the car down with a tack rag.

- as far as actually spraying color - is there any sanding between coats, or just a color sand and buff after the clear is sprayed? How about in between coats of clear? Do i need to sand, scuff, wipe clean, anything between color/clear coats?
Click to expand...


No need to sand between coats. If you put a run in the color you can let it dry, sand it out and repaint the spot but no need to sand otherwise, Just let the paint flash between coats, tack it off and spray more color.

Same with the clear, No sanding between coats.


When we color sand the car we nib it down with a special 1500 DA paper. Its about $4 a sheet, Then we wet sand with 1500-2000 and buff.
 
Sorry - one more question

-approximately how much of each product is sufficient to paint a Duster? Do I just go and buy a gallon of everything? I can always use the primers and prep materials for my other projects afterward, but I only need enough base for the job and some to spare for repairs and touch up.
 
danmc77 said:
Sorry - one more question

-approximately how much of each product is sufficient to paint a Duster? Do I just go and buy a gallon of everything? I can always use the primers and prep materials for my other projects afterward, but I only need enough base for the job and some to spare for repairs and touch up.
Click to expand...

Thats a good question.... How about how much of everything ( Sand paper , scotch pads etc....) ?
 
I'd like to add something about the panel fitment,I feel it's best to get the best panel fitment before you ever take the car apart,for beginners especially,get the panel fitment as best as you can before fixing rust spots etc,then do a panel at a time after you do the body work or metal work on each piece hang it back on the car to see your progress and make sure you havent changed it to where it no longer fits properly,with time and practice all of this that seems so hard will get easier.learn to see with your hand ie:close your eyes and run your hand held flat over a seeable dent and feel it out....then take a pencil(not a majic marker..it will bleed thru primers paint etc) and mark the dented areas.each time you do some more hammer and dollie or mud work feel out the area for the "results"after you have blocked out and area and primed it close the eyes and feel the whole car over again,several times if neccesary and mark the bad spots till you are satisfied,paint covers a multitude of sin but nothing hides great bodywork.good luck with your progect hope this was helpful
 
danmc77 said:
Sorry - one more question

-approximately how much of each product is sufficient to paint a Duster? Do I just go and buy a gallon of everything? I can always use the primers and prep materials for my other projects afterward, but I only need enough base for the job and some to spare for repairs and touch up.
Click to expand...

a gallon of epoxy should be fine, You may need 2 gallons of what ever you use to block the car out with. a gallon of color and a gallon of clear. It adds up fast. Wait till you see the price on a roll of DA paper. Some are over $100

Longgone said:
Adam, how`s your Dart coming along?
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I havent done much since last February.
 
Dan... you missed the obvious.

Adam, when can you come over and help?
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As far as how much to get, ALWAYS overbuy your paint. It will have a mix/reducing ratio. Some gallons of paint will end up as 1.5 sprayable gallons, other as 2 sprayable gallons. Nothing is worse than buying paint, then running out and having to get another batch mixed. Sometimes they aren't the same. If you buy 1.5 gallons, cross mix the paint to get any variation out of the total purchased.
 
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