budget drag strip car build Q's

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Tadjou

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Yes we can throw all kinds of money at our cars to go fast. .......but

I want to build a low budget drag strip car.

What I have so far:

71 Duster roller
8 3/4 rear
home built frame connector
relocated springs into rear frame
340 short block, zero deck cast pistons, steel crank
stock J heads, 2.02
edelbrock 1407 (750) CARB
stock rockers and 273 adj rockers
edelbrock 2176 intake (orig. perfomer) dual plane

Recommendation needed:

cam choice?
spool or not to spool?
rear gear choice?
have 904, converter stall choice?
 
Tadjou,
What rpm's do you want to turn? This will determine the rear gear and converter stall and cam choice.
Then how fast do you want to run? This will determine if you need a spool or not. And what size tires are you planning on running?
Also is it going to be 1/8 or 1/4 mile racing?
 
BJR Racing said:
Tadjou,
What rpm's do you want to turn? This will determine the rear gear and converter stall and cam choice.
Then how fast do you want to run? This will determine if you need a spool or not. And what size tires are you planning on running?
Also is it going to be 1/8 or 1/4 mile racing?
Click to expand...

Excuse my lack of knowledge with this stuff as I am struggling to learn fast about racing at a late age . LOL

I have been ask before about rpm's I want to run, doesn't the way the motor is built dictate how much rpm it can handle?

How fast I want to run? As fast as I can with what I build. I would like to see at least 13's. Would I be dreaming seeing 12's with a budget build?

1/4 mile racing.

Thanks for your patience and responds.

Tadjou
 
I have another factor in this....will you drive it on the street or is it a strip only car?
You see, if it is going to be only on the strip, you can push it more. Equip it with things without reguard on how well it drives at 10 or 30 MPH to the store.
You can also take things out of the car like P/S, P/B, heater, fans, back seat. Depends on how far you want to go. Which also comes to another question. What type of budget? Low I read. Since low can be realitive, is porting the heads in the budget? That can chew up a good chunk of a low budget.

Can we say this will be a Hyd cam engine? Or Mech. tappet? Or is that also part of the question and ways to go about this going fast question?
 
I'll give you the skinny on my buddy's low buck Duster.
340 -.030"
J heads unported
Victor intake.
12:1 compression
Crane roller cam.
Nothing exotic about this car. Race weight is close to 3400#.
4.56 posi with 30" slicks
Runs 11.9's all day long.
Shifts at 6800 rpm.
That is low buck. That is consistant. And no real maintainence.
 
Hey len, are those 12-1 pistons or milled heads to get there?
The only part of that build thats not low buck is the big bang for the buck roller cam.
What stall converter?

I think he did a good job on that.
 
Hey len, your buddy's combo sounds impressive.


I got a question about compression. I acquired my 340 as an already rebuilt short bock with 1267 silvolite piston at 10.2 to 1 comp. at zero deck. Assuming the deck and heads were not milled and stock head gasket. What would be final compression?
 
I have an "X" head 340 in my Dart sport that runs high 12's. It has a MP .509" lift hyd Purple shaft cam, Edelbrock TM5 single plane intake, 650 holley DP, MP electronic ignition, Hooker headers, 3.91 posi, 727 trans with 3500 stall converter, etc

Use those heads and shortblock with a big hydraulic cam. Use a 4 series ratio gear (4.10, 4.30, or 4.57) with 28" diameter rear tires (I actually use a 3.91 with 26" tall hoosier slicks). The spool will work fine for a track only car, might want to consider a sure grip for a car that is stret driven (spool can get dangerous on wet conditions you could see on street!).

a 904 trans built properly is quicker than a similar 727 (less rotational weight), but a stock 904 might not be durable enough for a strong 340.

Stall speed is dependent on the camshaft, gear ratio and how much you using the car (track only, street strip,etc). I use a 3500 stall turbo action 10" converter in mine.

bob
 
I got as a roller so it's pretty much stripped. What the previous owner did was mini tubbed it, welded in some frame connectors, relocated rear spring into frame rails and swapped in an 8 3/4 rear end. I have pick up most what I need for the front including shark tooth grill.

I believe the seller of the J heads I bought mentioned the the ports where already matched to the performer intake that I also bought. Maybe down the road I'll have them professionally ported.

I'm thinking mostly drag strip but not ruling out street use just yet.

dus-a.jpg


d7.jpg
 
Tadjou, before we take another step foward, the Edelbrock Performer is a stock replacement intake manifold, can you return the intake for a RPM or a M-1 single plane intake?

Do you know if the J heads have been milled? At a norm. , the J heads have a 72cc chamber. With my KB107's @ +.030, the ratio was 9.8-1 on a 360. This push's pump gas. Of course a bigger cam can allow more compresion, but this is an area that one could start to split hairs over. On a street ride, it's OK, for a strip only ride, you can push it some more unless a pump gas/dual purpose ride is OK.

You can still do a dual purpose car and get going preety fast on the strip. I'd recomend this route to start because you can still enjoy the car and when you want to do a strip only car, you can just mill the heads alot to go up in ratio.

As mentioned by Summitar, the rear end could be a sure grip equiped and it can and will perform very well. A spool on the street IMO kind of sucks.

I also think that 12's would not be dreaming. I believe you could get into the 11's if your willing to go foward with strip like weight saveings and such things that could be a pain on the street like a large cam, stall converter and high gears. While that would help make the car fast, it would limit the streetabilty of the car some and regulate the car to a limited amount of Hwy. useage.

I've had cars in the past where 55 is at about 4000 rpm. That makes it tuff to go far quickly. But it's a great street bruiser. Once you get that car to launch well when set up, it's a blast leaving the comp at the line and watching them play catch up.

Oh, those pictures show a great spring board of a car. Nice, real nice. Also think cage.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Hey len, are those 12-1 pistons or milled heads to get there?
The only part of that build thats not low buck is the big bang for the buck roller cam.
What stall converter?

I think he did a good job on that.
Click to expand...

Ok. My buddy bought this car, half way into summer. Wanted to start racing, and building a car would have taken at least a year. But he was given a good low-down on the engine.
The heads 'appear' to be close to stock. But that's kind of 'hear say', since we can't measure volume. But with .630" lift it's unlikely the heads have been radically milled. So 'likely they are' 12.5 pistons (re:domed).
As for converter. Car launches well with a 5000 stall converter.
I realize that when comparing prices, the roller seems so much more expensive. But for performance gained, there is no comparison to the flat tappets. And the car idles 'realitively' smoothly. I dare say this combination would likely run 1/2 sec. slower, or more with a wild flat in it. And likely not as consistant. Remember. These are 'stock' J heads. What would happen with a step up in that department?
 
Tadjou said:
Hey len, your buddy's combo sounds impressive.


I got a question about compression. I acquired my 340 as an already rebuilt short bock with 1267 silvolite piston at 10.2 to 1 comp. at zero deck. Assuming the deck and heads were not milled and stock head gasket. What would be final compression?
Click to expand...
.

Depending on a lot of factors it could be anywhere from 9.5 to 11:1. If you want to take some measurements, this formula, would get you very close.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php
 
I didd a little snooping. If the pistons are at 0, and the MP thinner gasket is used, and the chambers are 72cc, you still only have about 9-5:1. Not bad, not great either. More importantly, the 4 valve reliefs hurt in two ways. They aren't that deep, and there's two extra for every hole. So depending ont he cam, it may either bee more race oriented, or more street oriented. A note on "the package"... If you run a spool, the rules say (and common sense and safety) you have to run aftermarket axles. Necause if a stock one shears, the car turns 90°, regardless of speed or location of the track. You can hurt the car, yourself, and most importantly the other racers by running stock axles. A lot of guys do it, and dont have a problem. I would submit that a lot of guys also drink enough to pass out, but only a few choke and die on thier own puke. Which would you rather be? I would use safe trap rpm and that valve relief as the guides here. I would expect it to turn 6-6500 easy if it's balanced. I would build it with that 6000 as the goal. A solid flat tappet, in the 230-240°@.050, should still clear the pistons and make power up there. For gearing, a set of 4.10s and a 28" tire will stick you in the right ball park. I dont like really loose convertors. So my choice would be a 9" 3500 stall. One that locks up tight in high gear. My first choice would be the Comp 282S Magnum solid flat tappet. Second would be the larger brother XS282S. I think hte larger one would like more gear, and will feel soft under 3500 and probaably peak above 6K tho. It would leave more room to grow. You will need the heads' guides cut, spring seats cut, and the right double springs for this. So be aware of break in procedures and leaving out the inners for break in. I would not sweat using teh Performer. It's not much more than stack, certainly not an RPM, but it will carry the power up to 6, and you have it.
 
The seller of the J heads I bought mentioned the the ports where already matched to the performer intake that I also bought in a package deal (btw: I paid $250 for intake and heads in excellent condition.). IIRC he said the heads and intake were off a 318, .040 over crate engine doing 12's in a 68 Barracuda.
 
The J-heads were port matched to the Performer intake? So did he braze them up to make them smaller or open up the intake? The regular Performer has 318 size ports and small runners. The first thing I would do is eBay that intake and either get something better. A Performer RPM at a minimum or a good single plane like the Torker II or Strip Dominator would be a better match to your goals. If this isn't going to be a street oriented car, definitely run the single plane. With 4.10 gears, a GOOD converter, and moper's cam advice, you should be able to get into the 12's no problem. Don't even think about a spool if you are going to put license plates on this thing. A Sure-Grip and SS springs should be plenty to hook up that combo with sticky tires.

Cast pistons are the limiting factor on your short block. Shoot for 6000-6500 RPM.
 
Great info here. Thanks for all the responses.
 
I hear ya on the roller issue Len. Like I said, expensive, but, a big bang for the buck. I don't know if Tajou is willing to go that route with the extra work and expense involved.

I'd bet the intake was opened up to the heads, not the otherway around.

On cam lift, I would get as much as I could. Now how much can be had with those pistons is another story. Though the J head is likely to start stalling @ .500 anyway. I didn't notice a cc measurement on the relief. Or depth, but that is seldom seen and only a little help if any.

Tadjou, can you cc heads? And the pistons valve reliefs?
 
Being my wife is a RN, I asked her for a syringe. She can home with a 50cc'er and I went from there. Spare plexie cut up and gresse from the box.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Being my wife is a RN, I asked her for a syringe. She can home with a 50cc'er and I went from there. Spare plexie cut up and gresse from the box.
Click to expand...

HaHa...that's funny. My wife is a RN also and I hit her up for a syringe too last night.
 
Well I cc'd the heads twice and both times I cam up with 82 cc's. Seem a bit high but it was brought to my attention that the valves are dished and might account for the higher then stock 68-72 cc specs.

c1eb2.jpg
 
Ok....I had a brain fart. I did the math wrong.

I filled the syringe with 60 cc's and emptying 50 cc's into the the chamber. Then I filled the syringe again to 50 cc's and it filled the chamber when it reached 28 cc's

50 cc's - 28 cc's = 22 cc's (not 32 cc's duh)

50 cc's + 22 cc's = 72 cc's

So the morale of this lesson is don't do the math in your head. #-o
 
He he he, thats OK. Your Man enuff to admit it, no braken balls on it. It happens. LOL

On the vain of cheap.....since your going to get a cam, and of course valve springs to match, now your possibly into minor head work. Spring pad area may need a mod depending on springs.

(I do not think the MoPar springs need any. Comp does from what I remember. More likely spring dependent.)

Anyway, I'm thinking about a head mill to bring down a few cc's and what's your thoughts on valves?
Stock OE, back cut them, replace them?

Oh Damn, thats a clean work area!
 
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