Cam for 340 with 2.97 gears

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bbab3

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I talked to Racer Brown today about a cam for my Barracuda, and am looking to see how I want to build the car is feasible. What I am planning on is to use a 3.09 first gear a833 trans powered by a 340 running Eddy 60779 heads, ld340 625cfm street demon, and Doug's d-453 headers. The rear axle ratio of 2.97 and the tire size of 26" is what makes choosing a cam challenging. The reasoning behind the final drive ratio is that this car is going to be used as a hi-way car, also some regular city use. From what I have read the best cruising rpm is between 1800 and 2800 for a small block (mine as calculated 2700 @ 70). The red and green brick both used the same ratio of 2.97 (not sure of tire size). These were both race cars and the motors a lot more radical than what I am looking for. The input that i got today was great, just need to obtain some more info before ordering cam. My question is has anyone built a similar car? What started this is I previously owned a"68 340-s barracuda with a 2.97 rear and a 2.66 a833 and had way to wild of a cam, great at 80 not so good in traffic.
 
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is this the OD trans?
I have 318 3:54 and OD 29+ tire around 2K @70 (tack is flaky right no or I'd check runs ok at 17-1800 till you hit a hill
I think you said but what CR and quench dist In other words is this an early high compression build or a later lower compression build
what size are the dougs? 1 3/4"
you can make this work
depending on the rpm range you are looking for
up for a solid cam?
 
The trans has 1:1 fourth gear, headers are 1 5/8". The compression I need to confirm. The pistons sit .0014" above the deck and have four vale reliefs. I just ordered the stuff i need so I can figure out actual compression ratio.
 
Run a stock replacement 340 cam. Even the factory picked at least a 3:23 gear minimum for the 340 cars back in the day.
 
The trans has 1:1 fourth gear, headers are 1 5/8". The compression I need to confirm. The pistons sit .0014" above the deck and have four vale reliefs. I just ordered the stuff i need so I can figure out actual compression ratio.


You mean .014 positive? If so, even that is a bit low for me.

And I agree with repli as there is no reason to ever use anything taller than a 3.32 gear that I can think of, unless you are running 120 MPH across the desert for hours.
 
Did a bit of research today. called Comp Cams, Lunati and Crowler.
Comp 274xe with I .488 E .491 @50* I 230* E 236* lsa/cl 110*/106*
Lunati 10200702 with I.475 E .494 @50* I 220* E 236* lsa/cl 112*/108*
Crowler 31918 with I .444 E .464 @50* I 214* E 224* lsa/cl 114*/?
Anyone have experience with any of these cams and recommendations?
 
3.09x2.96/2.66= the same as 3.44s with a regular trans. The factory 340 sticks came with 3.55s and were terrors with their 268 cams. Run whatever you want, with that 3.09, you got a clutch.
But not a 292/108
I have that trans and run 3.55s cuz with my GVOD, it is revved out at 60 mph in First-over. And cuz it gets me 93mph in the 1/8 at 6150 in second-over.With a 3.55x3.09=10.97 it takes off hard, like a standard box would with 10.97/2.66=4.12s And finally because, because I can idle it down to 550rpm and the car moves at a fast walking pace of 4mph. Those are the only reasons I run the 3.55s.
My current cam is a Hughes HE 3037 with 230/237 @050 and 276/286/110 [email protected]
With this combo and 10.9Scr with aluminum heads, taking off is a dump it and go deal. I literally blip the throttle and let the heavy factory flywheel launch the car just feathering the clutch in, NO drama whatsoever. I would like to run 3.23s, but the cruise rpm would put that cam back into reversion and help nothing with fuel-economy. I know the engine would pull 3.23s just fine. But my 500rpm walking speed would increase to 4.4mph, and few people can walk that fast, making parades impossible for me.
Would she pull 2.94s? Absolutely yes, And I'm pretty sure she could spin BFGs most or all of the way thru second, ending at 75/80 mph.
So run whatever hiway cam you want.
One thing I see potentially screwing your combo up, is a lil too much overlap and not enough rpm. This will cost mileage more rapidly than hiway gears can make up. In some situations, my engine makes better fuel economy in direct than in overdrive. This is another reason for me to stick with 3.55s, the cruise rpm is high enough to eliminate reversion, at ~2200 rpm. 2.94s would drop that to ~1860, and my manifold vacuum down there is a lot less, indicating the engine is still in reversion.
So, if you want to push the envelope and still maintain economy, my 276/286/110 would not be a good choice; 61* overlap is really hard on fuel at 2200rpm.

Now, having said that, the previous cam in this combo was a Hughes HE2430 with 223/[email protected], and 270/276/110 advertised, and had 53* overlap . And this combo ran,point to point over 600 miles averaged over 30 mpgUS running at 85=2000rpm...... I know, just 9* less overlap. In the home country, our speed limit is 62mph(100kph), and the Rs were 1515, and swapping to a 750DP from the 600VS cruisercarb.. the economy was not there.Why? Because at 1515 she was back into reversion, and the DP was not set up for mileage.

So, be careful; that 2.94 can bite you in the azz, if you run the wrong cam , with the economy going backwards, depending on the cruise rpm.

So that was hiway talk;now lets talk about city work.With 2.94s,
30mph will be about 2200 in second gear A big fat cam at 2200 will be a big fat disappointment in every way. To accelerate briskly will require a downshift, and the Rs will jump up to 3520, and away you go. The question is do you really want to spend your whole life shifting up and down in traffic? Probably not. So in this case, married to the 2.97s you would want a hi-torque cam, something with very little overlap, and something to keep the cylinder pressure way up, so you can leave it in second.
How about 50mph? This is another popular posted speed limit. Now you are in third@2690 rpm.A downshift into second will get you 3690, and away you go.So again, the big fat cam is not a good idea.
So the solution would seem to be a short overlap,hi-torque cam.
Ok well remember the OEM 340 cars got horrible fuel economy with their 268 cams that had just 44* overlap. I had a few of those in my life, so I can attest to the poor economy, with 3.55s where the cruise rpm was already almost 3000.
So far, two things we know; 3000rpm is bad and so is 51* overlap at 1515 rpm,lol. And 44* is not too good either.
Stock 2bbl 360s had,IIRC, a 252/260/112 cam and even at 8/1 Scr could be tuned to make pretty good mileage with the 3.23s or less, that they often came with. That would make overlap of 32*, and a cruise rpm of around 2500. I have tuned those to rival teeners.
So now we know that 32* overlap and 2500 are good things. Your 2.97 will cruise at 65=2500 so you are part way there.
Ok but that 252/112 cam is a little puny in a 340 right. Well not for your application. And especially if you juice the cylinder pressure up. Aluminum heads will support pressure close to 200psi on pump gas.
Ok but your engine might come in at just 10.5, maybe a tic less. So that 360 cam with an ICA of just 59* might pump you up to 180psi; perfect.
With a VP index of 149 this will be a high torque engine, so will easily cruise at 2500 with the throttle barely open. I'm pretty sure that if you had a mind to,you could run a 2.45 on the hiway.But that 252/260/112 is gonna power-peak pretty early and rpm makes power so, your power is gonna be limited.
Let's pump it up a bit, with a 262/270/108.. This cam makes overlap of 50* and about the most your application will accept, as to hiway economy. Check this out! your ICA moves from 59* to 55* and the pressure rises to 184psi with a new VP of 158! So now you have a torque monster, that makes pretty good fuel mileage@2500, and the power peak is around 5000, and a 1-2 shift rpm of about 5700 when you get on it.
Now back to 30mph@2200 and 50mph@ 2690. Just leave it in gear, and with a VS carb, press on the pedal as hard as you need to, she will torque away.
Well that brings us close to, the conclusion;
My numbers are worked out with an Scr of 10.5 and with 184psi@800ft elevation, you have a bit of headroom. So if you end up a quarter point over or a half a point under, you will still be alright. Here's the rub; I used the advertised numbers to bring accuracy to the ICA, and the cylinder pressure. However, the .050s can vary widely and with it the power. Which you didn't even allude to. But with aluminum heads Ima thinking you still want to have something when you are done. So talking about a 262 hydraulic cam, the .050s could vary from a scary 204 minimum to perhaps 224 at a maximum. That is a range of 20* or 3 actual steps in performance.Most likely you will find 218 to 220; I would target no less than 218. This will get you a well-rounded engine making gobs of torque, and reasonable power, and with a good tune make great mileage, and if you paid attention to minimizing your Quench during the build, I'll bet you can run 87E10, for still more savings. I know my 367 did.
Wonky specs
The numbers are kindof funky; 262/270/108, with an install of 105*. You won't find an off-the-shelf cam like that; not even close. So talk to your grinder and see how close he can get to that. The primary focus of this cam is to make pressure, to take advantage of the aluminum heads, so you can use those 2.97s at 30 mph, and not have to be back-shifting in traffic. I left Power as of secondary importance.
I chose the 8* degree split so it would get me some overlap (50*), and together with the 108Lsa, make a nice little power boost with your headers, at 55/60 mph in second gear. First gear will be a throw-away gear cuz she will spin right thru it at WOT. To get to the power bulge faster, you might have to hold first a little longer than you might think, perhaps 6200/6400, so be sure your valve gear will go there,reliably. That shift-speed will put you very close to the torque peak,after the shift, and so the car will continue to blast to 65Mph with that lil power bulge. You need that boost because the Rs at 65 will be just 4800, in second gear.
This is the LARGEST cam I would put in the on account of the 50* overlap. You could open up the LSA to 110, and trade away a bit of that almost excessive torque, for 4* less overlap (now 46*), and possibly maybe gain a little more economy, but the power bulge will also go away.
That's the best I got, and the back-story to the getting of it.
And finally;
That VP of 158 is in BB territory, so when you floor it at 30mph, hang the heck on, cuzchit is gonna happen!

Read about VP here; V/P Index Calculation
 
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I'd go as big as they possibly make. And use 1.6 rockers. Go BIG or stay on the porch.
 
Just drove across southern Manitoba and back last week in a Duster with a comp 270h with 2.76 gears and 275 60 cooper tires. Iron headed 360 that makes 370hp... drove 115kph the whole way and I bet the car would still run a high 13 with the 2.76 gears

627564A4-4311-4666-A74A-4AC3A0A9B2F0.jpeg
 
Did a bit of research today. called Comp Cams, Lunati and Crowler.
Comp 274xe with I .488 E .491 @50* I 230* E 236* lsa/cl 110*/106*
Lunati 10200702 with I.475 E .494 @50* I 220* E 236* lsa/cl 112*/108*
Crowler 31918 with I .444 E .464 @50* I 214* E 224* lsa/cl 114*/?
Anyone have experience with any of these cams and recommendations?

I have with the old comp and the crower Baja Beast
the XE274 chevy cam is not the XE274HL mopar cam
Baja Beast is or at least was a chevy grind Crower has Mopar grinds but special order on the shorter ones
does not 214-224 raise the red flag of "made in Detrtoit"? also way to long an exhaust if you are using headers (same with Lunati but shorter intake holds down the overlap)
notice how the Lunati gives you the same lift as then non HL comp with 10 degrees less intake duration- more low end torque- more dynamic compression
you need to post seat duration and intake close points- seat timing for the dynamic compression guys to give you closer results
Clear choice of these three is the Lunati unless you actually need a shorter or longer duration to run a different rpm range
good work so far
 
Car went 13.3 with 3.55 gears...I would still crack a 13 with 2.76s
 
Well YR I ran 3:31 with an OD trans nice and quiet out on the highway
also have run 3:54 and 4:11 with the OD all work fine
back in the day we ran the Mobilgas economy run with 2 series gears and T-96 with OD and the tallest legal tire was like taking off in second gear but did get excellent mileage
Today we can get 8-9-10 speed trans and have the best of both worlds
 
some examples of 214-224 cams- why I was suspicious
444 /464 I 214* E 224*@50* lsa/cl 114*/? Crowler 31918 with
.488/.509- 214/224 .488/.509 112 GM 12370845 off road Hyd Roller
.442/.465 – 214/224 – – 112 – GM Crane 12353918 Hyd. marine & off road
note you can get this same "Detroit" grind from 108 to 115LCA but most are 112 107 intake centerline to 113 ICL
The 288 duration is measured at .004 (same as Crane uses), Cam Dynamics is matching the 340 cam , 280 may be at .006 - the 296 in Elgin is cam lift not duration
.449/464 268/284 214/225 115 lca 113in/117excl Cam dynamics evidently a 340 duplicate
443/465 280/290 214/224 112LCA 107 in 117 excl WG 1161 LA engine - Wolverine Blue Racer
443/465 288/298 32 76 81 37 (69) 214/224 0 34 49 5 112LCA 107 in 117 excl Melling 23203
442/465 .295/.310 288/298 (69) 214/224 (-5) 112lca Sealed Power CS 1019R 2200-5200
444/466 .296/.311 (69 ovlp) 214/224 -1 35 48 -4 112LCA 108 ICL 116 excl Elgin E 936-P
What is really scary is that some of these may be the factory 340 cam with the lobe centers squeezed together or a .842 chevy cam hard to tell
 
Just drove across southern Manitoba and back last week in a Duster with a comp 270h with 2.76 gears and 275 60 cooper tires. Iron headed 360 that makes 370hp... drove 115kph the whole way and I bet the car would still run a high 13 with the 2.76 gears
Auto or M/T ?
I'm with you, I had a similar combo, just with OOTB Eddies; it went 12.9@106 @3650 pounds me in it, on 245/60-14 street tires, with an A833/3.55s....lol.. That was a happy day for me.That was about 2002.
Currently,I run a 3.55 x .78 od =2.77 final drive ratio. she cruises at 65=2240 with plenty of vacuum. Our powertrains are practically twins. Ok not really, but...........

I hate to mention it but, I was shifting that lil Hughes cam at 7000, and trapped in third gear around 6800. Just one run. I drove an hour and a half to get there, made the run, and went for lunch before returning home. Had my 17 year old son with me. After the run I tossed him the keys and said "Your turn". He politely declined and tossed 'em back, and that was a happy day for me.lol.
 
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Car has a 727 and a 2800 stall... I posted the engine Dyno sheet last year in RAMMs thread where he built a similar 360
 
Just drove across southern Manitoba and back last week in a Duster with a comp 270h with 2.76 gears and 275 60 cooper tires. Iron headed 360 that makes 370hp... drove 115kph the whole way and I bet the car would still run a high 13 with the 2.76 gears

View attachment 1715228221


Can you give me an MPH I don't do metric.

Thanks in advance.
 
What did Jim tell you at Racer Brown? If he gave you a recommendation, why are you seeking elsewhere?
 
I forgot about that.

Don't know why you'd use an off the shelf cam when there is no need to do it. Especially in a wired case such as this.

I was scratchin my head. He talked to the absolute best person alive for a cam choice......yet he is here askin for help?
 
If that was my car i would run with the Crower cam,or second the Lunati preferably with 1.6:1 rockers if you dont already have a set of rockers.


Point is,you have a 340 and i dont think you could even get a 340 with less than 3.21 gears back when these cars where new,they where never intended for pulling those tall gears you have.
You do have some nice heads,and the added airflow will make more power and rpm compared to the stock iron.
The reason for higher ratio rocker is that that will alove you to take alitle better advantage of the characteristics of those heads,but no real point in adding a ton of duration when you run that kind of gears with such a small engine,if you realy want to run more cam with those gears i would realy advice you to get more displacement.


Unless Racer brown had a different idea.
 
I would like to clear up a few things, I respect Jim at Racer Browns. He had a number of ideas for the right cam profile for my car. I need to confirm the 340's actual compression ratio. Once I have that I going to contact him and go from there. I have researched this issue with the rear gear ratio/tire diameter since I bought the car years ago. I am finally building the car, and the cam choice is tough since it is not the most common application. I have gained a lot of information on FABO. I started this thread to find out if anyone else has experience with this problem and what worked for them. The more informative you gather the more you know. Which is why I contacted techs from different cam manufacturers. My goal is to know more so I can talk to Jim some what intelligently, at least I hope.
 
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