Camshaft Experts

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roccodart440

roccodart440

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Looking for cam recommendation for my 440.

Currently it is a 440 .030 over, flat tops, 345cfm eddy rpm heads, 2.20 / 1.81 valves, 84cc chambers, victor intake with a 1050cfm 4150 carb

Current cam is [email protected], .650, 112LSA Solid Roller comp cam


Engine currently makes 602@5900 / 575ft@4500
 
You think a 4150 flange is good for all that?
 
RustyRatRod said:
You think a 4150 flange is good for all that?
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It's worked fine for years, so is it good, yes. Would a 4500 be better, idk. This is the combo Jim Laroy put together for me. I don't remember our conversations regarding carburetor choices.

For a 99% street car, I'm unsure what would be better on this combo, never rana dominator on anything.

What are your thoughts Rusty?
 
What’s your compression ratio. Also, if you could change cams would you want the torque and power peaks at the same rpm or would you want to move them higher or lower?

I can run some math and give you some numbers. Of course, the math haters will come along and throw shade.
 
I doubt a 260-112 grind would win a cam shootout on the dyno in a flat top 440………but the winner would probably be a noticeable step away from the street friendly manners you’re likely experiencing with the current cam.
Engine currently makes 602@5900 / 575ft@4500
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My thoughts are you’d have to slide the peaks up the RPM scale a bit to see an appreciable gain in power.

If it were a cam/dyno contest, the cam I have in mind should be worth a nice gain……..but wouldn’t be great on the street with mufflers.

For a 99% street driven 440, I don’t see any real upside to a 4500 carb.
 
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PRH said:
I doubt a 260-112 grind would win a cam shootout on the dyno in a flat top 440………but the winner would probably be a noticeable step away from the street friendly manners you’re likely experiencing with the current cam.

For a 99% street driven 440, I don’t see any real upside to a 4500 carb.
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When Jim Laroy and I chatted about that cam, we picked it knowing HP would be left on the table in lieu of street manners and fuel friendliness, which is important to me.

Personally I think it's a little deficient in compression and pulling that LSA back would boost cranking compression and also boost the HP. But how far to pull it back and not impact street manners...

Swapping to 1:6 rockers was also an option.. Bigger cam without a bigger cam, and less work involved
 
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Newbomb Turk said:
What’s your compression ratio. Also, if you could change cams would you want the torque and power peaks at the same rpm or would you want to move them higher or lower?

I can run some math and give you some numbers. Of course, the math haters will come along and throw shade. I bought these pistons 25 years ago.
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I'm not entirely sure... I bought these pistons 25 years ago. They are forged flat tops and I had the iron closed chambers at the time
 
If you are unsure of the piston deck height, get an inexpensive bore scope (Harbor Freight) and take a look with a piston at the top of the bore.
 
When Jim Laroy and I chatted about that cam, we picked it knowing HP would be left on the table in lieu of street manners and fuel friendliness, which is important to me.
Click to expand...

Its pretty rare when a cam swap in a fairly well sorted out street/strip combo doesn’t come without having to give something up…….to get something else.
 
Here’s what I came up with using your numbers. I kept the power and torque peaks where you had them and I used 10.25:1 for compression. I thought I posted them already but it looks like I didn’t.

257/269 104/101

I found a couple of Howard’s lobes that would work.

.006/.020/.050/lift

298/289/257/.656
310/301/269/.640

Don’t let the 104 LSA make you nervous. It will idle and drive just like your other cam when the tune up is correct.
 
roccodart440 said:
When Jim Laroy and I chatted about that cam, we picked it knowing HP would be left on the table in lieu of street manners and fuel friendliness, which is important to me.

Personally I think it's a little deficient in compression and pulling that LSA back would boost cranking compression and also boost the HP. But how far to pull it back and not impact street manners...

Swapping to 1:6 rockers was also an option.. Bigger cam without a bigger cam, and less work involved
Click to expand...
Depends on what springs you have and how close you are to coil bind. Also depends on what your valve to piston clearance is. Changing rocker arms is one good experiment but I wouldn't bother with 1.60 rockers, go straight to 1.70 if they'll fit. And only put them on the intake.
The Trick Flow intake is a better intake than the Victor so you could change intakes for less money than a cam swap. Or get the Victor fully ported. You'll pick up a chunk of power with a better intake and it is a simple swap.
My flat top 470 made more than 700 hp with a 264/268 Comp solid roller. But it had Trick Flow heads and a fully ported intake. Also, the 264/268 roller that I used wasn't very street friendly! I have a customer who runs the same 264/168 cam in his street car and it is a monster. His engine makes over 700 hp with EFI and it required some professional tuning to get the EFI system to work with that camshaft.
 
roccodart440 said:
I'm not entirely sure... I bought these pistons 25 years ago. They are forged flat tops and I had the iron closed chambers at the time
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You need to know what those #'s are, valve to piston clearance, and what intake centerline that cam is installed at. With intake valves that size, Newbomb's spec is 8° tighter & advanced 3°, plus if You add more rocker ratio...those intakes are going to be popping open way sooner & higher. This is no time for guessing about it, it needs measured before doing anything else.
 
Killer6 said:
You need to know what those #'s are, valve to piston clearance, and what intake centerline that cam is installed at. With intake valves that size, Newbomb's spec is 8° tighter & advanced 3°, plus if You add more rocker ratio...those intakes are going to be popping open way sooner & higher. This is no time for guessing about it, it needs measured before doing anything else.
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That will be checked when it's being worked on by my engine builder. I just don't have those specs at my disposal from the last time the engine was done. With the new Jesel, the plan is to check vtp clearance at 0, 2, 4 and -2, -4 and then so long as it's sufficient, do pulls at all of those settings.

In the meantime, he wants me to take a compression test before the engine comes out. Wants to see 180+. If it's under that, I assume we will have to go a little further and get the compression up.

An interesting update, the owner at BLP Racing products (who is making my new carb) stated he has seen the best results on Mopars retarding the cam timing. So i'm interested to see what my engine likes.
 
AndyF said:
Depends on what springs you have and how close you are to coil bind. Also depends on what your valve to piston clearance is. Changing rocker arms is one good experiment but I wouldn't bother with 1.60 rockers, go straight to 1.70 if they'll fit. And only put them on the intake.
The Trick Flow intake is a better intake than the Victor so you could change intakes for less money than a cam swap. Or get the Victor fully ported. You'll pick up a chunk of power with a better intake and it is a simple swap.
My flat top 470 made more than 700 hp with a 264/268 Comp solid roller. But it had Trick Flow heads and a fully ported intake. Also, the 264/268 roller that I used wasn't very street friendly! I have a customer who runs the same 264/168 cam in his street car and it is a monster. His engine makes over 700 hp with EFI and it required some professional tuning to get the EFI system to work with that camshaft.
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My Victor intake is deep ported and port matched to match the fully ported heads.

Do they make a 1.7 rocker for a RB engine?

I'm interested in the trick flow though. Maybe just a port match and see how it stacks up.
 
roccodart440 said:
That will be checked when it's being worked on by my engine builder. I just don't have those specs at my disposal from the last time the engine was done. With the new Jesel, the plan is to check vtp clearance at 0, 2, 4 and -2, -4 and then so long as it's sufficient, do pulls at all of those settings.

In the meantime, he wants me to take a compression test before the engine comes out. Wants to see 180+. If it's under that, I assume we will have to go a little further and get the compression up.

An interesting update, the owner at BLP Racing products (who is making my new carb) stated he has seen the best results on Mopars retarding the cam timing. So i'm interested to see what my engine likes.
Click to expand...

By retarded did he mean back to straight up or split over lap or did he mean retarded from straight up?
 
Newbomb Turk said:
By retarded did he mean back to straight up or split over lap or did he mean retarded from straight up?
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Retarded from straight up.

belt drive.jpg
 
Interesting choice of words - “straight-up”. Posters will often times have different definitions for the meaning of straight-up, causing very confusing and convoluted thread discussions.

Maybe you guys are saying the same thing, maybe you’re not.
 
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1.7 rockers on RPM heads will likely require a fair amount of clearancing for intake pushrods…….. in an area of the head that’s already likely pretty thin from porting.
I’d look into it before buying any parts.

The cam phase testing results should be interesting.
 
PRH said:
1.7 rockers on RPM heads will likely require a fair amount of clearance for intake pushrods…….. in an area of the head that’s already likely pretty thin from porting.
I’d look into it before buying any parts.

The cam phase testing results should be interesting.
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I'm decided to avoid changing the rockers for that reason, as well as a few others. These heads are maxed out as far as they will go.

I love dyno testing. I'll be posting the results and the nice thing is I already have a baseline for the existing combo pre-changes.
 
Currently it is a 440 .030 over, flat tops, 345cfm eddy rpm heads, 2.20 / 1.81 valves, 84cc chambers, victor intake with a 1050cfm 4150 carb

Current cam is [email protected], .650, 112LSA Solid Roller comp cam


Engine currently makes 602@5900 / 575ft@4500
Click to expand...

I’m surprised the peaks occur where they do considering the head flow, intake manifold selection, and wider lsa.
It had the big headers on for that as well, correct?

Any chance you have a dyno sheet to look at?
 
PRH said:
I’m surprised the peaks occur where they do considering the head flow, intake manifold selection, and wider lsa.
It had the big headers on for that as well, correct?

Any chance you have a dyno sheet to look at?
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It had 2.125 fenderwell headers on it for those runs

I'll see if I can find the actual dyno sheets.
 
Does the dyno shop have any suitably sized non-fender well headers you can try?

If the primary tubes get too long, it will generally move the peaks lower in the rpm band.
 
PRH said:
Does the dyno shop have any suitably sized non-fender well headers you can try?

If the primary tubes get too long, it will generally move the peaks lower in the rpm band.
Click to expand...
No, he uses those 2.125 fenderwell headers for all of the big block mopar stuff. They have EGT's in them, etc.
 
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