Carburetor Question - Is this a good call?

[Mattax]

Yah, totally stock. I've only done the heads to run better on unleaded gas. The car is surprisingly low original mileage (65,000) so I've just left it be.

OK. Cool.
Not that Johnny dart's point isn't valid.
It all depends on where your comfort is and what you enjoy or think you will enjoy.
I've got more carbs than engines here!
And am actually very interested in picking up another carb, just because it intrigues me.
So far resisted...

 

[crashcaptn]

OK. Cool.
Not that Johnny dart's point isn't valid.
It all depends on where your comfort is and what you enjoy or think you will enjoy.
I've got more carbs than engines here!
And am actually very interested in picking up another carb, just because it intrigues me.
So far resisted...

Right? I'll pick up this Carter just for ***** and giggles. But i agree with Johnny - an Edelbrock would be smarter cause its newer and would have more options to work with (and if i decide to let the carter go i'll just offer it up here somewhere and it'll go away quick i'm sure). However i want the Holley working becuase theres other things that this car has been doing and if this Holley now works well with the correct plate on the car, then the smoking issue i had previously was the plate issue and not like.. bad rings or something..

 

[yellow rose]

Do you not have a bench grinder or a right angle grinder handy? That would be quicker.

I guess I'm spoiled. I've been buying tools since I first went to work. My buddies were buying golf clubs and skis and junk like that (I did have a nasty bowling habit that was expensive but I never had the patience to devote all the time it takes to try and turn pro) and now, in my mid 50's I have two lathes, one with a small mill that works if you ain't greedy and don't crowd it and a TIG welder plus all my hand tools right out in the shop.

If you have any kind of a grinder handy you can knock this thing right out, and then order some bolts later if you want to.

Glad you are sticking to it. God hates a coward. And a quitter. Sometimes, you just gotta grind on it (no pun intended) until you make it work!!

 

[crashcaptn]

Do you not have a bench grinder or a right angle grinder handy? That would be quicker.

I guess I'm spoiled. I've been buying tools since I first went to work. My buddies were buying golf clubs and skis and junk like that (I did have a nasty bowling habit that was expensive but I never had the patience to devote all the time it takes to try and turn pro) and now, in my mid 50's I have two lathes, one with a small mill that works if you ain't greedy and don't crowd it and a TIG welder plus all my hand tools right out in the shop.

If you have any kind of a grinder handy you can knock this thing right out, and then order some bolts later if you want to.

Glad you are sticking to it. God hates a coward. And a quitter. Sometimes, you just gotta grind on it (no pun intended) until you make it work!!

If i had a garage it'd be a beautiful thing. I live in an apartment with a stall in the back.. much better than most places around me here in San Diego honestly. Id absolutely have a grinder and all sorts of other stuff (i miss wood working the most).

Courtesy of google maps street view; the locked cabinet to the far right is the most garage i have.. minus my bedroom which has tool chests next to dressers:

(PS i found a bowling ball next to that dumpster there a few days ago.. its from the 60's and all shiny and rad. Trade you ball for i dunno.. GETTING MY CAR RUNNING? haha)

 

[65Val]

Ok...here's the plate I used many years ago, for just what you're doing. As you can see, the Allen bolt fits perfectly w/ no grinding req'd. Those are 1.25" bolts, but 1" will probably be perfect...

 

[yellow rose]

If i had a garage it'd be a beautiful thing. I live in an apartment with a stall in the back.. much better than most places around me here in San Diego honestly. Id absolutely have a grinder and all sorts of other stuff (i miss wood working the most).

Courtesy of google maps street view; the locked cabinet to the far right is the most garage i have.. minus my bedroom which has tool chests next to dressers:

View attachment 1715452235

(PS i found a bowling ball next to that dumpster there a few days ago.. its from the 60's and all shiny and rad. Trade you ball for i dunno.. GETTING MY CAR RUNNING? haha)

You are officially born again hard core!!! That's a tough way to work on a car. Props to you for doing it with less than most.

 

[DrCharles]

You are officially born again hard core!!! That's a tough way to work on a car. Props to you for doing it with less than most.

We make do with what we have. My first house was a small Cape Cod on a 50x100 lot (no garage, just a 1-car driveway) I bought in 1983. I built my first engine, a mostly-stock 383, in the kitchen, then had three buddies from work come over with a length of four-by-four and a chain, and we carried it out to the driveway and set it in front of the car... rented a cherry picker to put it in.

 

[crashcaptn]

You are officially born again hard core!!! That's a tough way to work on a car. Props to you for doing it with less than most.

haha Thanks man - no power out there makes for some macgyver moves at times but i'm thankful for what i have at the least

We make do with what we have. My first house was a small Cape Cod on a 50x100 lot (no garage, just a 1-car driveway) I bought in 1983. I built my first engine, a mostly-stock 383, in the kitchen, then had three buddies from work come over with a length of four-by-four and a chain, and we carried it out to the driveway and set it in front of the car... rented a cherry picker to put it in.

Nailed it. I had an old Yamaha i did some work on in my living room for a bit.. do what you can with what you got, eh??

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

San Diego ?

Can definitely help if you need the Holley tuned.

 

[crashcaptn]

San Diego ?

Can definitely help if you need the Holley tuned.

That would be great! I just got the parts last night and will be installing the carb on saturday morning.. i was planning on updating everyone then for sure..

 

[crashcaptn]

Hey all - Update.

I ended up replacing the plate considering @dukeboy_318 stated he went through the same thing and it would pool gasoline in those holes (and finding the bolt was a pain and this just solved it quick and cheaply).

You'll see in the pic above that the kit comes with the bolts @65Val was discussing above. After replacing the plate with a new plate the carb STILL didn't work - it would start and surge and die. I thought after some tinkering for an hour that maybe the plate itself isn't perfectly flat.. it wasn't. I put two gaskets down between the intake manifold and the plate and one between plate and carb.. and it worked! Car started and moved under its own power. I am for sure having some adjustment issues for sure.. but I didn't mind.. finally functioned.

What i'm noticing now (from my garbage research) is possibly an accelerator pump issue.. While cruising down the street all is well.. then when its time to mash on it a bit it acts like i've let go of the gas peddle, wait 1.5 seconds, and then floor it.. Its an adjustment i'm sure on that spring against the accelerator pump but... yeah.. no clue (yet).

 

[65Val]

Sounds good...you're making good progress. With the engine off, pull the air filter, look down the primary bores and move the throttle a wee bit to see if you get anything out of the accel. jets...it should squirt even with a very small movement of the throttle. If not, then adjust at the accel pump arm to get that, and if you get fuel, you may have a ignition timing problem.

 

[crashcaptn]

Sounds good...you're making good progress. With the engine off, pull the air filter, look down the primary bores and move the throttle a wee bit to see if you get anything out of the accel. jets...it should squirt even with a very small movement of the throttle. If not, then adjust at the accel pump arm to get that, and if you get fuel, you may have a ignition timing problem.

Thank you! I'll do exactly that tonight

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

That's called a lean spot.
Have you done a vac test at idle to at least get an idea of the correct range power valve?
What number is on the shooter and what color pump cam? For now you can mess with the pump shot in pumpkin till you get it to roll on the throttle smoothly as for stopping at wide open you're going to have to find out the vacuum rating pick a power valve a couple below that so enough enrichment occurs at wot to cover for the lagging mains to catch up

 

[crashcaptn]

That's called a lean spot.
Have you done a vac test at idle to at least get an idea of the correct range power valve?
What number is on the shooter and what color pump cam? For now you can mess with the pump shot in pumpkin till you get it to roll on the throttle smoothly as for stopping at wide open you're going to have to find out the vacuum rating pick a power valve a couple below that so enough enrichment occurs at wot to cover for the lagging mains to catch up

No vac test done yet - i'll get the color to you tonight!

 

[Mattax]

IF there's no fuel at first movement (65Val's test), this is the pump lever he was talking about.

If its the pump cam that Holley installed, all that should be neccessary is adjusting the spring loaded bolt so there is zero play at idle.
If the pump cam has been changed, sometimes its neccessary to reshape the arm (bend) so it contacts the cam where it will do good (upper arrow). Also make sure the lever is not contacting the throttle spring next to it.

If fuel is still not appearing immediately, then check valve (umbrella valve) could be damaged.

I think I know why MO mentioned power valve. If you get a part throttle flat spot at higher rpms, that would be a possibility for sure.

 

[crashcaptn]

IF there's no fuel at first movement (65Val's test), this is the pump lever he was talking about.
View attachment 1715460014

If its the pump cam that Holley installed, all that should be neccessary is adjusting the spring loaded bolt so there is zero play at idle.
If the pump cam has been changed, sometimes its neccessary to reshape the arm (bend) so it contacts the cam where it will do good (upper arrow). Also make sure the lever is not contacting the throttle spring next to it.

If fuel is still not appearing immediately, then check valve (umbrella valve) could be damaged.

I think I know why MO mentioned power valve. If you get a part throttle flat spot at higher rpms, that would be a possibility for sure.

Perfect pics thanks Mattax - I actually tried to adjust that screw so there would be zero play against right where that red arrow is pointing to the arm.. I cant loosen it enough to make it have zero play.. I set up my phone and took a video of the carb when i was having the first aforementioned issue with vacuum and caught the adjustment we're discussing and caught that movement.. (ok cant upload a video clip so i'll take two screen shots.. one at rest, one with throttle - see below)

Whats not obvious is that the arm for the accelerator pump DOES move.. just not a lot.. and no amount of loosening will make it really change anything visually on that movement.. seems to always make TOO much contact

 

[Mattax]

Perfect pics thanks Mattax - I actually tried to adjust that screw so there would be zero play against right where that red arrow is pointing to the arm.. I cant loosen it enough to make it have zero play.. I set up my phone and took a video of the carb when i was having the first aforementioned issue with vacuum and caught the adjustment we're discussing and caught that movement.. (ok cant upload a video clip so i'll take two screen shots.. one at rest, one with throttle - see below)

View attachment 1715460033 View attachment 1715460034

Whats not obvious is that the arm for the accelerator pump DOES move.. just not a lot.. and no amount of loosening will make it really change anything visually on that movement.. seems to always make TOO much contact

Well that's it then. There's a big jump in position between the green cam and some of the others commonly used. You have to bend the pump arm or you might have to rotate the cam position up. Some cams have 2 holes, others 3. Same with the throttle. it has two countersunk holes. So this allows several positions with any cam.

 

[crashcaptn]

Well that's it then. There's a big jump in position between the green cam and some of the others commonly used. You have to bend the pump arm or you might have to rotate the cam position up. Some cams have 2 holes, others 3. Same with the throttle. it has two countersunk holes. So this allows several positions with any cam.

Awesome i'll have to investigate

 

[65Val]

If you look at the 2 pics, the one on the left (at idle) looks fine, but the one on the right has a gap between the nut and the arm. Seems to me the lever is jammed in one position and isn't moving at all, which stops the diaphragm from pumping any fuel. I'd check that accel diaphragm for damage, or (my best guess) a missing spring under it.

This would explain.."I cant loosen it enough to make it have zero play."

 

[Edward Hackett]

Hey thanks man - So I should have stated some of those factors first.

Engine is strong and has passed with flying colors its leak down test and compression tests. Valves were just adjusted about a month ago and they're proper. Timing was checked and was already perfect last weekend (I don't have the numbers here but i'll get them soon). Basics are actually done, but good on you for asking. I've had what feels like fuel delivery issues for a while AND what I also left out was that gas mileage is horrible, carbon build-up on the exhaust tips, pulled spark plugs and they're showing signs of too much fuel, and when i'm on the freeway after about 10 mins of driving at 50 MPG i start blowing grayish smoke (no oil consumption, no coolant consumption). I rebuild the Holley myself and that was a mistake so I had a very good shop here in San Diego rebuild it professionally. Still. Issues.

View attachment 1715447091 View attachment 1715447092

Hey thanks man - So I should have stated some of those factors first.

Engine is strong and has passed with flying colors its leak down test and compression tests. Valves were just adjusted about a month ago and they're proper. Timing was checked and was already perfect last weekend (I don't have the numbers here but i'll get them soon). Basics are actually done, but good on you for asking. I've had what feels like fuel delivery issues for a while AND what I also left out was that gas mileage is horrible, carbon build-up on the exhaust tips, pulled spark plugs and they're showing signs of too much fuel, and when i'm on the freeway after about 10 mins of driving at 50 MPG i start blowing grayish smoke (no oil consumption, no coolant consumption). I rebuild the Holley myself and that was a mistake so I had a very good shop here in San Diego rebuild it professionally. Still. Issues.

View attachment 1715447091 View attachment 1715447092

I have a 340+6 AAR ‘Cuda, and my center carb had this issue. Turns out a backfire blew out my power valve. New Holleys have a check valve to prevent this, but older carbs do not.
If the power valve blows out, no amount of jet change, mixture adjustment, or float level adjustment will help. The power valve will go full ritch because it’s no longer a restriction to the flow of fuel at the prescribed vacuum level. Check it out.

 

[crashcaptn]

Hey all - had lots of work and other projects in the way. Did get a chance before superbowl to do some investigations. Pics below.

Sounds good...you're making good progress. With the engine off, pull the air filter, look down the primary bores and move the throttle a wee bit to see if you get anything out of the accel. jets...it should squirt even with a very small movement of the throttle. If not, then adjust at the accel pump arm to get that, and if you get fuel, you may have a ignition timing problem.

I did move the throttle and i got that squirt like you described. I'll have to put a timing light on it again but before all this plate nonsense and was where it should be.. (i wrote it down somewhere)

That's called a lean spot.
Have you done a vac test at idle to at least get an idea of the correct range power valve?
What number is on the shooter and what color pump cam? For now you can mess with the pump shot in pumpkin till you get it to roll on the throttle smoothly as for stopping at wide open you're going to have to find out the vacuum rating pick a power valve a couple below that so enough enrichment occurs at wot to cover for the lagging mains to catch up

No vac test yet.. need to get a gauge for it. I researched how it should work with a gauge so i think i can do that test. Color is orange (see pics below) and it looks like its set on #1?

Well that's it then. There's a big jump in position between the green cam and some of the others commonly used. You have to bend the pump arm or you might have to rotate the cam position up. Some cams have 2 holes, others 3. Same with the throttle. it has two countersunk holes. So this allows several positions with any cam.

The orange one i believe has two? I didnt want to mess with it with my super limited knowledge. got more research to do..

 

[sireland67]

That is wrong it should have only one.

 

[Mattax]

Orange is the 466 cam. 65 Val is talking abouyt the slightest rotation of the throttle should send some fuel out the accel pump nozzles.
You can see here how the shapes from begining to end vary, sometimes greatly.

from the photos it looks OK, but that really doesn't mean anything. If it causes movement when the throttle rotates, then fuel should move.

Sometimes the lever arm has to be bent a bit so the contact point is near the start of the lift.
In the drawing above, its probably fine, but some situation maybe bent a little flatter to so it will contact further right and have more initial lift.

its more of an issue when changing cams to one that is very differently shaped.

 

[65Val]

Good post Mattax...I was pointing out that when the pump arm is moved, it appears that the pump lever doesn't, as there is a space between the upper nut and the arm, telling me that the accel lever is jammed and not moving to activate the accel diaphragm.