Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I don't get any of it. Just going to bite my tongue.
Carburetor Question - Is this a good call?
- Thread starter crashcaptn
- Start date
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crashcaptn
1965 Dodge Dart GT
ok. I mean.. that's my point too - i'm doing my best here and refuse to tow it to a shop man.
Maybe in all the focus to seal with the spacer, the basics got over looked.
This should get you back on track.
Carburetor Question - Is this a good call?
crashcaptn
1965 Dodge Dart GT
you read my mind, thanks - I was just reading through that post right now in fact.
Reading your post and watching a few videos over some time here.. sounds like float level. This carb doesn't allow me to adjust the floats from the outside of the car - i'd have to take the bowls off and manually bend/adjust a bracket that holds them from the inside. this is sounding like my issue. I checked the idle screws and they're at 1.5 turns out from all the way in. Sounds like floats.
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The turns out on the idle screws is not too important. That's just fine tuning info. Something to take note of. If there is no or little response to turning mixture screws - that's useful for analysing what's going on. Turn them in and the engine should stumble and then more and it should die when. (When throttle is at slow idle).
Fuel level - according to the the info on the Holleys wensite for that carb, there are fuel bowl sight plugs. Remove those to check the wet fuel level. If fuel pours out - float level is too high. If its dribbles out, the primary is about correct. Secondary I prefer keep a fraction under the plug in most cases.
Since your struggling with getting a steady idle, check the level with engine off.
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crashcaptn
1965 Dodge Dart GT
Thank you! That’s first on my list for tomorrow morning. Got told I’m done with it for tonight!
However if memory serves, the top holes are sealed and the sides where there are sight glass / screws, there aren’t any...
An engine reving and dying or nearly dying is often an engine too lean.
If this happened right at start up, could it be choke settings?
Might need to give it some help until its warm enough.
if you do take the carb off, before putting it back on, check the throttle openings.
The secondary throttle should be nearly shut. No transfer slot will be visible when viewed from underneath.
On the primary side, a little bit of the transfer slots should be visible.
Since there is a choke and a fast idle cam, make sure they are open and the 'idle speed screw' is what is keeping the primary throttles from closing any more.
On a 4150/60 type carb in particular, it is critical that .020 to .040" of the transfer slots show.
If its neccessary to open the throttle outside of the range to keep the engine running, then we need to adjust timing or air through PCV valve etc.
Its best to write down how many turns of the stop screw to open the throttle to .020, .030 and .040 inches while the carb is off.
Shank of drill bit next to transfer slot.
Primary throttles opened further showing most of transfer slot.
If this happened right at start up, could it be choke settings?
Might need to give it some help until its warm enough.
if you do take the carb off, before putting it back on, check the throttle openings.
The secondary throttle should be nearly shut. No transfer slot will be visible when viewed from underneath.
On the primary side, a little bit of the transfer slots should be visible.
Since there is a choke and a fast idle cam, make sure they are open and the 'idle speed screw' is what is keeping the primary throttles from closing any more.
On a 4150/60 type carb in particular, it is critical that .020 to .040" of the transfer slots show.
If its neccessary to open the throttle outside of the range to keep the engine running, then we need to adjust timing or air through PCV valve etc.
Its best to write down how many turns of the stop screw to open the throttle to .020, .030 and .040 inches while the carb is off.
Shank of drill bit next to transfer slot.
Primary throttles opened further showing most of transfer slot.
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That would be a bummer. I was going from the pic on Holleys website.
Yup. Don't see 'em in your photos.
Well do a visual check for over flowing fuel. That would be a worst case of floats too high or related.
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crashcaptn
1965 Dodge Dart GT
This morning i went in to look at the stuff we've been discussing above however - first discovery - this plate is garbage.
It wasn't making a good seal on the intake manifold because the mounting hardware (mounting the plate to the intake) doesn't completely screw down on the driver side firewall. Now that i'm taking my time here, i can see how it isnt designed for this car yet could potentially work.. Yesterday when installing i was just sort of excited and should have noticed. But gasoline was all over the manifold so i was getting vacuum issues all over. This is the one that I bought that didn't have the correct mounting bolts for the manifold.. I believe that this one would work.. it seems to have the correct mounting hardware.. both suck and i'm surprised there isn't a better solution for mounting a Holley to a Dodge..
Pic below is the gasket.. soaked (the manifold is too, but you cant really see that from here).
I went ahead and ordered the other option because its returnable and it comes in mid-week and i'll be hunting for another adaptor. I really wish the Holley would just mount directly OR that Holley built one for their carbs. Doesn't seem to be true.
It wasn't making a good seal on the intake manifold because the mounting hardware (mounting the plate to the intake) doesn't completely screw down on the driver side firewall. Now that i'm taking my time here, i can see how it isnt designed for this car yet could potentially work.. Yesterday when installing i was just sort of excited and should have noticed. But gasoline was all over the manifold so i was getting vacuum issues all over. This is the one that I bought that didn't have the correct mounting bolts for the manifold.. I believe that this one would work.. it seems to have the correct mounting hardware.. both suck and i'm surprised there isn't a better solution for mounting a Holley to a Dodge..
Pic below is the gasket.. soaked (the manifold is too, but you cant really see that from here).
I went ahead and ordered the other option because its returnable and it comes in mid-week and i'll be hunting for another adaptor. I really wish the Holley would just mount directly OR that Holley built one for their carbs. Doesn't seem to be true.
Other than the hardware they come with, they look the same to me. Same part number other than the suffix.
It looks like you used the the flathead machiune screws which were intended for the countersunk inner pattern.
I think the only way this works is to use a allen heads or similar.
Hard to tell from the Speedway photo, but looks like that's the difference in the two kits.
You may have time to stop by a hardware store and buy four this afternoon. Just check the depth so there is enough threads to hold well but noit so long as to bottom out when tightened.
It looks like you used the the flathead machiune screws which were intended for the countersunk inner pattern.
I think the only way this works is to use a allen heads or similar.
Hard to tell from the Speedway photo, but looks like that's the difference in the two kits.
You may have time to stop by a hardware store and buy four this afternoon. Just check the depth so there is enough threads to hold well but noit so long as to bottom out when tightened.
crashcaptn
1965 Dodge Dart GT
Hm. correct. I'll bring those bolts down to the hardware store and see fi i can find the correct ones..!
Honestly. if I were you, keep yours eyes open for someone selling a Carter or smaller eddy cheap.
Makes things simpler and they all can be made to work well. It would be a nice option to have choice anyway.
That said. Factory smog era (some '67, all 68 -9) carbs are a little more involved. So those have a little steeper learning curve - especially with a non stock engine.
Makes things simpler and they all can be made to work well. It would be a nice option to have choice anyway.
That said. Factory smog era (some '67, all 68 -9) carbs are a little more involved. So those have a little steeper learning curve - especially with a non stock engine.
Sounds good!
65Val
Average Length Member
These are what you want, in the proper size for bolting down that plate....Allen cap screws...
crashcaptn
1965 Dodge Dart GT
Thank you! I'm heading to the auto parts store to see if i can find them now
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
WOW. This shouldn't be this hard, but it is. Damn. I'm not familiar with your intake but from what I can see, I like it except for the missing bolt pattern for the Holley. I didn't even know Chrysler had intakes with the missing bolt pattern.
I think if you get the bolts correct and it seals, you'll be on the road to getting it tuned up.
I didn't realize it was going to be this much of a big deal or I'd have said screw it and find a Carter/Edelbrock for it like mattax said.
I think once you get the vacuum leak sealed it will get much easier. At least I hope that.
crashcaptn
1965 Dodge Dart GT
Right? If Holley had the extra bolt holes like Edelbrock this thread wouldn't even exist.. However, what i'm thankful for is people here on the site helping me through and giving me some good info. I've learned a ton about adjustments i never knew before and honestly, i feel like i'm on the right path. But yah this is the stock 4 barrel intake on the Commando 273 engine.. id ditch the Holley before i ditch this!
I however no luck finding the bolts today at any of the auto parts stores that would carry them.. most parts stores around here don't even carry bolts.. odd. i'll dig the internets and see whats out there. I'll also call the company i got this plate from and see if they'll just exchange it out and that would solve everything, too.. the other plate had the right bolts it seems. @65Val - you don't happen to have a link to purchase the one pictured, do you?
But yes, i hope you're right there that once that vacuum issue is solved it'll just need some basic adjustments and off i go.
Fastenal or McMaster Carr will have the bolts you need.
65Val
Average Length Member
Sorry...I actually just grabbed that pic from the 'net, but back many moons ago, I used that same plate on the same intake you have, and, with the correct bolts, it worked just fine. Try a home center (Lowe's, etc.) for those bolts, or Fastenal/McMaster-Carr.
crashcaptn
1965 Dodge Dart GT
Thanks all - i was JUST about to head to Lowe's and decided not to because i didnt think they would have any SAE 8-ish bolts at all... but ya - i'll be searching these 3 asap.
San Diego area should have places with socket head cap screws. I'd least I'd think so with the Navy presence. Pensacola you could even buy AN hoses with teflon liners and have them cut and crimped to end fittings. Point is, ask around. Hard to imagine there isn't something like a Fastenal in the area. But if its easier, order on-line.
SAE Grade 8 is for hex head screws. Won't find the SAE grades for the allen wrench sockets. However at least it used to be all socket heads had pretty high tensile strength. Nothing to worry about. In fact, for what you are using them for, a slightly lower tensile strength would be better. You want enough torque on the screw that the threads slight stretch. That's what keeps them from backing out. With the thin adapter and gaskets, can't use too much torque or it will crack.
SAE Grade 8 is for hex head screws. Won't find the SAE grades for the allen wrench sockets. However at least it used to be all socket heads had pretty high tensile strength. Nothing to worry about. In fact, for what you are using them for, a slightly lower tensile strength would be better. You want enough torque on the screw that the threads slight stretch. That's what keeps them from backing out. With the thin adapter and gaskets, can't use too much torque or it will crack.
crashcaptn
1965 Dodge Dart GT
Damn.. good info. thanks
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
All the Allen head cap screws should be grade 8.
In something like this it's ok but I don't usually use grade 8 stuff for engine bolts. Break one off and it's a mother bear to get it out.
For what you are doing, the Allen head is the answer.
Cope
Fusing with fire
You dont need grade 8 bolts for that.
65Val
Average Length Member
Don't need Grade 8 bolts for this issue...just get whatever Allen heads they have...you aren't torquing them down very tight anyway...it's just an aluminum plate.
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