Classic industries radiator finally gave out

[Rat Bastid]

is it only necessary with a aluminum radiator? Where does the zinc go if it gets dissolved?

With aluminum heads and intakes too. The zinc dissolves into the coolant and doesn’t hurt anything.

You can get zinc anodes for 20 bucks or less if you look. Don’t forget your timing cover is aluminum too. I seen many of them ate up and it gets blamed on cavitation but it’s really electrolysis.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

Still on the fence about 1” or 1.25” tubes. The folks at wizard cooling recommended 1.25 tubes but said the 1” would probably work

 

[72bluNblu]

Pay attention to the overall core thickness, as it may limit your options for a fan. I say this because the 2 rows of 1.25” tubes may actually take up more space than the 3 rows of .75” tubes in the Champion radiator I run. The 3 row will have an extra space between rows so it’s hard to say. But I know I wouldn’t want any additional core thickness compared to what I have.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

Pay attention to the overall core thickness, as it may limit your options for a fan. I say this because the 2 rows of 1.25” tubes may actually take up more space than the 3 rows of .75” tubes in the Champion radiator I run. The 3 row will have an extra space between rows so it’s hard to say. But I know I wouldn’t want any additional core thickness compared to what I have.

according to their specs the depth of both the 2 row with 1” tubes and 2 row with 1.25” tubes is 3” which is roughly the same depth as my current radiator, as close as i can measure. I have about 3/4 of a inch in between my clutch and current radiator, whats the closest i should run the clutch to the radiator? 1/2”?

 

[Demonx2]

Yeah deff dont wanna fix it, i think its time for an aluminum anyway lol
Im just trying to decide between 1” or 1.25” tubes

View attachment 1715871343

Gorgeous engine bay!!

 

[fratzog lover]

8 years for what they cost? Unacceptable. Quality disappeared years ago.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

Gorgeous engine bay!!

Thank you! Lots of time trying to keep everything clean and not jumbled

 

[72bluNblu]

according to their specs the depth of both the 2 row with 1” tubes and 2 row with 1.25” tubes is 3” which is roughly the same depth as my current radiator, as close as i can measure. I have about 3/4 of a inch in between my clutch and current radiator, whats the closest i should run the clutch to the radiator? 1/2”?

I know I wouldn’t want to run the clutch any closer than a 1/2” to the radiator.

3” huh? Hmm. Spec on the 3 row Champion I run looks to be 2.5”. I’ll measure it tomorrow, that seems a bit thin considering the tubes would be 2.25” by themselves.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

I have a 22" Wizard w/shroud ( 1" tubes ) and running 180 t/stat and clutch fan. Mild 360. Runs 180 degrees . On a hot day may creep up to 190/195 if I'm idling getting staged for a main street show. One of my best investments. They are a little pricey but worth every dollar. One extra thing I did was to install a sacrificial anode in the water jacket on the intake to protect the aluminum from corrosion.

View attachment 1715871404

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What hp? I contacted wizard cooling and told them my setup and they recommended to go with the 1.25” tubes.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

I know I wouldn’t want to run the clutch any closer than a 1/2” to the radiator.

3” huh? Hmm. Spec on the 3 row Champion I run looks to be 2.5”. I’ll measure it tomorrow, that seems a bit thin considering the tubes would be 2.25” by themselves.

Tank is 3” the core appears it might be just a tad thicker but its a cad drawing

https://wizardcooling.com/content/526-110.pdf

 

[RustyRatRod]

Most of these aluminum radiator companies recommend HOAT coolant. While that's important the biggest thing is that people forget you're supposed to use distilled water.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

Most of these aluminum radiator companies recommend HOAT coolant. While that's important the biggest thing is that people forget you're supposed to use distilled water.

They actually recommended a corrosion inhibitor, the conventional green antifreeze i got from napa says safe for aluminum iirc

 

[RustyRatRod]

They actually recommended a corrosion inhibitor, the conventional green antifreeze i got from napa says safe for aluminum iirc

Yes, I looked on Wizard's site and they actually recommend Evans waterless coolant.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

Yes, I looked on Wizard's site and they actually recommend Evans waterless coolant.

Yeah idk if im too keen on that, i can get 50/50 conventional green coolant from napa through the shop i work at for about $7 a gallon. Thats what i bought a year ago when i swapped the milodon water pump for a flow kooler and Only reason i bought the pre diluted was you couldnt find distilled water! Lol ya know, the “pandemic”

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

I know I wouldn’t want to run the clutch any closer than a 1/2” to the radiator.

3” huh? Hmm. Spec on the 3 row Champion I run looks to be 2.5”. I’ll measure it tomorrow, that seems a bit thin considering the tubes would be 2.25” by themselves.

found some more info on the wizard cooling core size

“Our direct fit aluminum radiator are generally 3" at the tanks and have a 2.25"-2.75" core”

i assume 2.25” core for the 1” tubes and 2.75” core for the 1.25” tubes

 

[Rat Bastid]

according to their specs the depth of both the 2 row with 1” tubes and 2 row with 1.25” tubes is 3” which is roughly the same depth as my current radiator, as close as i can measure. I have about 3/4 of a inch in between my clutch and current radiator, whats the closest i should run the clutch to the radiator? 1/2”?

What is the downside to two 1.25 inch tubes? Th answer is nothing. I’d ditch the clutch fan long before i skimped on tube size. There is no downside to bigger tubes.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

What is the downside to two 1.25 inch tubes? Th answer is nothing. I’d ditch the clutch fan long before i skimped on tube size. There is no downside to bigger tubes.

i plan to keep the clutch fan, their radiator even with the 1.25” tubes should be roughly the same dimensions as my current radiator

 

[72bluNblu]

What is the downside to two 1.25 inch tubes? Th answer is nothing. I’d ditch the clutch fan long before i skimped on tube size. There is no downside to bigger tubes.

Uh, we're already talking about a very important downside to bigger tubes. Namely, if the core is too thick you may not have enough clearance for a decent fan set up. The OP seems to have a 1/4" to give, which is great. But on my car, if I went to a radiator a 1/4" thicker than the one I've got I'd be out of luck for fan clearance on my current set up.

The other thing is that the size of the tubes is only one of a whole bunch of factors that go into determining how much heat a radiator can dissipate. Tube spacing, fin spacing and density, water flow and air flow all have a big effect too. So running larger tubes but less of them (tube spacing) could mean you have larger tubes and less cooling capability.

Just saying your radiator has the biggest tubes is an advertising gimmick, same as saying your radiator has the most number of rows. The radiator with the biggest tubes may not have the highest cooling capacity, just like the radiator with the most rows might not. And you don't see radiator manufacturers listing the actual amount of heat energy their radiator can dissipate, and you won't. They'll say stuff like "cools 450hp!!!" but they won't publish the data behind that calculation. And those kind of calculations use a lot of assumptions, so you can get different numbers by playing with the data and parameters.

I love my cheap old Champion 3 core, and I wouldn't trade it for a fancy 2 core 1.25" tube radiator that costs 3x as much.

 

[Rat Bastid]

Uh, we're already talking about a very important downside to bigger tubes. Namely, if the core is too thick you may not have enough clearance for a decent fan set up. The OP seems to have a 1/4" to give, which is great. But on my car, if I went to a radiator a 1/4" thicker than the one I've got I'd be out of luck for fan clearance on my current set up.

The other thing is that the size of the tubes is only one of a whole bunch of factors that go into determining how much heat a radiator can dissipate. Tube spacing, fin spacing and density, water flow and air flow all have a big effect too. So running larger tubes but less of them (tube spacing) could mean you have larger tubes and less cooling capability.

Just saying your radiator has the biggest tubes is an advertising gimmick, same as saying your radiator has the most number of rows. The radiator with the biggest tubes may not have the highest cooling capacity, just like the radiator with the most rows might not. And you don't see radiator manufacturers listing the actual amount of heat energy their radiator can dissipate, and you won't. They'll say stuff like "cools 450hp!!!" but they won't publish the data behind that calculation. And those kind of calculations use a lot of assumptions, so you can get different numbers by playing with the data and parameters.

I love my cheap old Champion 3 core, and I wouldn't trade it for a fancy 2 core 1.25" tube radiator that costs 3x as much.

I agree, there is engineering that goes into it. If the OP is short on room two 1 inch tubes is LESS thick that your .75 3 core and it will flow more coolant at the same pressure and pump speed.

Two 1 inch tubes will cool way more that what the OP has IF he has thought out the rest of the cooling system. That means a quality high volume water pump, over drive pulleys and a decent fan. If anyone has that, two 1 inch cores will cool way more than what is claimed.

Fins per inch has its limits as well. Get too many fins per inch and you can’t get enough air through the radiator to cool anything. Too few fins and you can’t dissipate the heat quick enough.

I forgot to mention you also need a quality high flow thermostat. The only thermostat I’ve found that is always fully open by it’s rated temperature is the Robert Shaw/Stewart Components thermostats.

I just had a Pontiac guy call me on Monday and his engine runs at 192-195 a 180 thermostat. So I had him pull it out and verify when it opened. And sure enough it was starting to open at 180, when it should have been fully open by then.

A new thermostat is on the way.

There is certainly more to it than the number of cores and the size of the cores. You can run a 4 core radiator too, but what do you get? A total of 2 inches of tube. Same as a 2 core with 1 inch tubes and the two 1 inch cores will flow more coolant than the 4 cores at .5 inch each.

Fit the biggest radiator with the biggest, fewest cores you can get and use the thermostat to set your minimum operating temperature. Build in some safety margin so a few years down the road you won’t need to buy another radiator when you increase the power.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

Ordered the radiator last night, went with their recommendation of going with the 1.25” tubes. They advised me to go with the 1.25” tubes to be safe but the 1” would probably work.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

I agree, there is engineering that goes into it. If the OP is short on room two 1 inch tubes is LESS thick that your .75 3 core and it will flow more coolant at the same pressure and pump speed.

Two 1 inch tubes will cool way more that what the OP has IF he has thought out the rest of the cooling system. That means a quality high volume water pump, over drive pulleys and a decent fan. If anyone has that, two 1 inch cores will cool way more than what is claimed.

Fins per inch has its limits as well. Get too many fins per inch and you can’t get enough air through the radiator to cool anything. Too few fins and you can’t dissipate the heat quick enough.

I forgot to mention you also need a quality high flow thermostat. The only thermostat I’ve found that is always fully open by it’s rated temperature is the Robert Shaw/Stewart Components thermostats.

I just had a Pontiac guy call me on Monday and his engine runs at 192-195 a 180 thermostat. So I had him pull it out and verify when it opened. And sure enough it was starting to open at 180, when it should have been fully open by then.

A new thermostat is on the way.

There is certainly more to it than the number of cores and the size of the cores. You can run a 4 core radiator too, but what do you get? A total of 2 inches of tube. Same as a 2 core with 1 inch tubes and the two 1 inch cores will flow more coolant than the 4 cores at .5 inch each.

Fit the biggest radiator with the biggest, fewest cores you can get and use the thermostat to set your minimum operating temperature. Build in some safety margin so a few years down the road you won’t need to buy another radiator when you increase the power.

Yeah i know the radiator is just one of the components. Heres the full breakdown on the other parts

Flowkooler high flow water pump
180 degree Milodon high flow thermostat
Mopar 5 blade fan with hayden clutch
March pulleys with a 1:1 crank and water pump pulley

current temps in summer are 190-195. Have seen close to 200

 

[Rat Bastid]

Yeah i know the radiator is just one of the components. Heres the full breakdown on the other parts

Flowkooler high flow water pump
Milodon high flow thermostat
Mopar 5 blade fan with hayden clutch
March pulleys with i believe a 5-1/4” crank and 6-1/2” water pump but i would have to measure to make sure

If your numbs are correct then the water pump is under driven and that is bad. Especially in a relatively low RPM street car.

Think about it. If it’s a hundred degree day and you are sitting in traffic, your water pump and fan if you are using a mechanical fan are turning LESS than idle RPM. You are roughly 20% under driven.

At a 1k idle the pump and fan are now turning 800 RPM. That makes it hard for any cooling system to keep up.

Those stupid under drive pulley’s were all the rage in the 1990’s, especially the circle track guys who though saving 7-8 HP by slowing down the pump and fan was a good deal. Except they lost 20 HP when they couldn’t control the engine temp, especially during a caution.

And there is always a caution when you turn left all the time. And you could easily tell who was running those pulleys. They were the cars that on restart dropped back several places until they had enough pump and fan speed to cool the engine down.

A 20 degree increase in engine temperature is a big enough power loss, but you also have to add in the fact that most of these cars were on the edge anyway, and the increase in coolant temp would drive them right into detonation. If they weren’t careful they’d be spitting rods out before they finished the main.

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

If your numbs are correct then the water pump is under driven and that is bad. Especially in a relatively low RPM street car.

Think about it. If it’s a hundred degree day and you are sitting in traffic, your water pump and fan if you are using a mechanical fan are turning LESS than idle RPM. You are roughly 20% under driven.

At a 1k idle the pump and fan are now turning 800 RPM. That makes it hard for any cooling system to keep up.

Those stupid under drive pulley’s were all the rage in the 1990’s, especially the circle track guys who though saving 7-8 HP by slowing down the pump and fan was a good deal. Except they lost 20 HP when they couldn’t control the engine temp, especially during a caution.

And there is always a caution when you turn left all the time. And you could easily tell who was running those pulleys. They were the cars that on restart dropped back several places until they had enough pump and fan speed to cool the engine down.

A 20 degree increase in engine temperature is a big enough power loss, but you also have to add in the fact that most of these cars were on the edge anyway, and the increase in coolant temp would drive them right into detonation. If they weren’t careful they’d be spitting rods out before they finished the main.

I updated the post. Both crank and water pump are 6-1/2”

 

[Rat Bastid]

I updated the post. Both crank and water pump are 6-1/2”

That’s way better than under driven. BTW, once you use Evans coolant you won’t go back. It doesn’t require pressure to work. You can pull the radiator cap off on a hot engine and nothing will blow out and scald you. The low pressure thing is a big deal to me. It’s easier on the hoses, core plugs and any sealing area. What’s easier to seal? A system with 16-18 psi on it or virtually no pressure?

 

[72bluNblu]

Yeah i know the radiator is just one of the components. Heres the full breakdown on the other parts

Flowkooler high flow water pump
180 degree Milodon high flow thermostat
Mopar 5 blade fan with hayden clutch
March pulleys with a 1:1 crank and water pump pulley

current temps in summer are 190-195. Have seen close to 200

So everything was working just fine then, the radiator just sprung a leak.

I measured the core thickness on my Champion 26” 3 row, it is in fact about 2.5”. Tanks are 3”. Currently I’ve got ~9/16” from the end of my pulley to the fan shroud for my electric fans, so, a 2.75” core would be a no go for me. Hopefully you’ve got the room!