Crane Roller Lifters OH NO!

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Mopar Sam

Mopar Sam

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Well,we just took the intake off badvaliant's 360 to see why # 4 intake rocker was barely moving. One of his crane ultra pro link bar rivets had come apart and the lifters spun trashing the cam.
I have a spare pair in the shop, but we are wondering if anybody else has had this problem with the cranes? We probably won't have time until monday to check the rest of the lifters out.
It is his only car, so we will have to decide what to do. The cam is an oregon regrind hyd roller, but have been using the crane solid roller lifters lashed .003 cold. 242 246 at .050 mid .500 lift. So, a nice daily driver cam. It has been trouble free for a couple of years, until now.
He built the motor 7 years ago and had a comp 284XE hyd flat until a lifter collapsed. He went solid roller so he wouldn't have that problem again...Now a new problem!
 
Man, sorry to hear that! I'm not satisfied with the comp roller lifters in the Van either.... :BangHead:
 
We will be pulling the motor monday to check everything out. We might as well refresh it and touch up the valve job.
He will have to decide what to do, we may even machine one of my 360 magnum blocks and go with hyd roller. setup with replacement mag lifters. Those crane ultra pros were an $800 set.
 
Mopar Sam said:
We will be pulling the motor monday to check everything out. We might as well refresh it and touch up the valve job.
He will have to decide what to do, we may even machine one of my 360 magnum blocks and go with hyd roller. setup with replacement mag lifters. Those crane ultra pros were an $800 set.
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The only thing that breaks link bars is the bores need be corrected. Or maybe, too much cam end play.

I have beat the hell out of those lifters and never failed one. What happened to you would make me nervous.
 
yellow rose said:
The only thing that breaks link bars is the bores need be corrected. Or maybe, too much cam end play.

I have beat the hell out of those lifters and never failed one. What happened to you would make me nervous.
Click to expand...

Well, that gives us something to look for. The end play was good, when we put it in, but who knows what could happen in 2 years of daily use...

And, we are a little nervous, we need to decide how to proceed, he needs the car for getting to work.

He really liked the cam compared to the comp, it picked up everywhere, so he would prefer to stay solid roller, but needs it to stay together.
 
I do not have the bhj fixture for bushing the bores, so that is not an option.
 
Mopar Sam said:
Well,we just took the intake off badvaliant's 360 to see why # 4 intake rocker was barely moving. One of his crane ultra pro link bar rivets had come apart and the lifters spun trashing the cam.
I have a spare pair in the shop, but we are wondering if anybody else has had this problem with the cranes? We probably won't have time until monday to check the rest of the lifters out.
It is his only car, so we will have to decide what to do. The cam is an oregon regrind hyd roller, but have been using the crane solid roller lifters lashed .003 cold. 242 246 at .050 mid .500 lift. So, a nice daily driver cam. It has been trouble free for a couple of years, until now.
He built the motor 7 years ago and had a comp 284XE hyd flat until a lifter collapsed. He went solid roller so he wouldn't have that problem again...Now a new problem!
Click to expand...
That hurts to spend that extra 'sleep good at nite money/bragging right' money...to have it fall apart like cheap luggage.
 
Mopar Sam said:
I do not have the bhj fixture for bushing the bores, so that is not an option.
Click to expand...
IMO stay away from rollers for the street, they to $expensive and have become problematic especially the retro hyd rollers.
If it were me I would not hesitate to run a reputable flat solid cam with EDM lifters for the street.
 
^^ Ya' know..$300 for the cam and $300+ for the roller lifters to get you how much more power? People don't like roller bearings in their roller rockers but they would run roller lifters? K.I.S.S: It is the street, how fast can you go on it and not kill anyone? Race motors are the exception. Lots of benefits from a solid roller.
 
512Stroker said:
IMO stay away from rollers for the street, they to $expensive and have become problematic especially the retro hyd rollers.
If it were me I would not hesitate to run a reputable flat solid cam with EDM lifters for the street.
Click to expand...

That is another option of course, but the setup was great for at least 2 years, lash rarely changed and was driven all types of weather, summer heat, winter cold.
 
Two years, virtually maintenance free, using semi exotic parts, daily driver and in all kinds of weather? What kind of life does the olde girl have. Well cared for? Low mileage? Grandma to church on Sunday style driving? Or are we talking 60 mile commute in traffic each way, gone through three sets of tires and she's cold started in the snow in the front yard every morning? Few hard licks down the track on Wednesday nite? Most people don't realize that motors of the time where only designed to last about 30 thousand miles before timing chains and gears were $hit and needed attention.
 
pishta said:
^^ Ya' know..$300 for the cam and $300+ for the roller lifters to get you how much more power? People don't like roller bearings in their roller rockers but they would run roller lifters? K.I.S.S: It is the street, how fast can you go on it and not kill anyone? Race motors are the exception. Lots of benefits from a solid roller.
Click to expand...

After the comp hyd lifter collapsed he wanted to get away from hydraulic. It wasn't all about power. The roller cam worked great, car would start all winter, no problem. We would check the lash twice a year, and never any causes for concern. The spring pressures aren't crazy either, but enough for the cam.

The rollers weren"t the problem, it was the rivet on the link bar. I rolled the motor over till those 2 were on the base circle, and could easily spin the rollers, although they do have flat spots from turning sideways on the lobes.

This may just be a fluke, we will check everything out and go from there. Even the best parts can go bad at times.
 
Blind Squirrel said:
Two years, virtually maintenance free, using semi exotic parts, daily driver and in all kinds of weather? What kind of life does the olde girl have. Well cared for? Low mileage? Grandma to church on Sunday style driving? Or are we talking 60 mile commute in traffic each way, gone through three sets of tires and she's cold started in the snow in the front yard every morning? Few hard licks down the track on Wednesday nite? Most people don't realize that motors of the time where only designed to last about 30 thousand miles before timing chains and gears were $hit and needed attention.
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He is 25 so I bet he gets on it once in a while.

Rollers aren't really exotic, every new car that I know of has roller lifters.

Brian's cam is mild, 242 @ .050 works well with the 10.9:1 compression. It runs great on 93 pump gas never pings or diesels. He uses 273 iron rockers, so nothing exotic there. He has mildly ported edelbrocks with 2.05 Intake valves and an airgap. Just a basic little 360.

And, it sits outside all year, it will be inside when we pull the motor.
 
pishta said:
^^ Ya' know..$300 for the cam and $300+ for the roller lifters to get you how much more power? People don't like roller bearings in their roller rockers but they would run roller lifters? K.I.S.S: It is the street, how fast can you go on it and not kill anyone? Race motors are the exception. Lots of benefits from a solid roller.
Click to expand...
Anything can happen. I get ya, though I like my solid roller stuff. A link bar, I've had solid lifter cups bore themselves from the push rods...push rods fault from poor finish COMP CAMS, but still...made chatter and the cups weren't very fk'n hard were they! Lol MP lifters.
Let's hope its gets back together soon and no repeats.
 
Mopar Sam said:
That is another option of course, but the setup was great for at least 2 years, lash rarely changed and was driven all types of weather, summer heat, winter cold.
Click to expand...
Two years is a very short life span for a valve train in a street application.
It failed for a reason, take all efforts to find out WHY ? before you proceed.
Post some close up pic's of the failed parts just maybe we can help.
 
512Stroker said:
Two years is a very short life span for a valve train in a street application.
It failed for a reason, take all efforts to find out WHY ? before you proceed.
Post some close up pic's of the failed parts just maybe we can help.
Click to expand...

I will have Brian post some pictures when he gets time. We are both pretty busy right now.

This is the 3rd cam in 7 years. The first was an unknown used hyd flat with only .460 lift, It was fine but slow, he upgraded to the comp 284XE and had 2-3 years and had 1 lifter collapse, and a couple more were on their way.

We were just talking about maybe refreshing the motor this winter, at least touching up the valve job and checking things out. We will just do it sooner than later.

One thing for sure, he will not use a hyd flat.
 
512Stroker said:
Two years is a very short life span for a valve train in a street application.
It failed for a reason, take all efforts to find out WHY ? before you proceed.
Post some close up pic's of the failed parts just maybe we can help.
Click to expand...


I agree. Something is wrong. There isn’t much load on those rivers unless something is off.

I forgot to mention there should be as close to .0000 taper across the lobes as you can get. I’ve seen some lobes that had .0015 taper and my buddy fought it scuffing the roller on the lifter and some other stuff I no longer remember (1987...yes I’m old).
 
Mopar Sam said:
I will have Brian post some pictures when he gets time. We are both pretty busy right now.

This is the 3rd cam in 7 years. The first was an unknown used hyd flat with only .460 lift, It was fine but slow, he upgraded to the comp 284XE and had 2-3 years and had 1 lifter collapse, and a couple more were on their way.

We were just talking about maybe refreshing the motor this winter, at least touching up the valve job and checking things out. We will just do it sooner than later.

One thing for sure, he will not use a hyd flat.
Click to expand...

That’s the beauty of a SFT. It’s much more forgiving if there is something off.

You already have the roller lifters. And those are among the very best lifters out there not made by Jesel. I’d see what I could find that’s off and look at a remedy for what you find.

I was going to use a mushroom lifter on my next build but finding lifters is like finding the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. So I’ll use a solid roller. And then see if I can make .750 net lift, maybe a bit more.
 
yellow rose said:
The only thing that breaks link bars is the bores need be corrected. Or maybe, too much cam end play.

I have beat the hell out of those lifters and never failed one. What happened to you would make me nervous.
Click to expand...

Same here. Had YEARS on a set of those ultra pros and zero issues.
They are all i would run in a new build
 
This may come across as flippant....... but it’s how I look at these things.
Race car parts in a DD....... thats not going to offer the kind of DD reliability I’d be looking for.
There is a reason the factory uses numb cams that can be used with valve springs you can push open with your hand.
Because that’s what lasts.

You want really good reliability for your DD?
Don’t put race car parts in the valvetrain.
Any type of “fast rate” cam is going to wear out valvetrain components way quicker than anything that came from the factory.
 
Mopar Sam said:
Well,we just took the intake off badvaliant's 360 to see why # 4 intake rocker was barely moving. One of his crane ultra pro link bar rivets had come apart and the lifters spun trashing the cam.
I have a spare pair in the shop, but we are wondering if anybody else has had this problem with the cranes? We probably won't have time until monday to check the rest of the lifters out.
It is his only car, so we will have to decide what to do. The cam is an oregon regrind hyd roller, but have been using the crane solid roller lifters lashed .003 cold. 242 246 at .050 mid .500 lift. So, a nice daily driver cam. It has been trouble free for a couple of years, until now.
He built the motor 7 years ago and had a comp 284XE hyd flat until a lifter collapsed. He went solid roller so he wouldn't have that problem again...Now a new problem!
Click to expand...
Is .003 a misprint? Kim
 
Any idea of how many miles are on those roller lifters?

As for the rollers and reliability in general.......one of my friends is a tech at a Dodge dealership for over 30 years.
He tells me failed hyd roller lifters in G3 Hemis is not uncommon.

There are more pieces....... which to some degree means...... there are more pieces to fail.

This came out of a motor with a fast rate hft cam.
It’s always been kinda noisy...... nature of the beast...... but then one day one lifter wouldn’t quiet down.
This style of cam is simply more demanding on the lifters than what they’re capable of tolerating for the long term.

ABA8047B-D4E1-47DF-A567-DF7ACCB6483F.jpeg


Original /6 recipe for reliability........numb cam that operates fine with wimpy springs...... no hydraulic mechanism in the lifter to fail.

It just makes sense that as you stray farther and farther from that model, with an eye towards higher performance ....... reliability starts to drop off along with those changes, and any added complexity of the componentry.
 
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