crossover or x-pipe

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dans4door1970

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What are your opinions on these in an exhaust system. My old time Mopar mechanic doesn't feel there are any benefits and installs exhaust systems without them.
 
Crossovers are for mellowing the exhaust tones and increasing torque.
X pipes are for higher RPM exhaust scavenging. (and they can mellow exhaust tones due to the pulses running through each others paths)

One thing a lot of people don't seem to know is a crossover belongs way up close to the motor, and X's belong way towards the end of the exhaust. (behind the axle on a full system) or as far back as it can be done.

Do we really need them? not really.
Do they both have a purpose? absolutely.
 
TrailBeast said:
Crossovers are for mellowing the exhaust tones and increasing torque.
X pipes are for higher RPM exhaust scavenging. (and they can mellow exhaust tones due to the pulses running through each others paths)

One thing a lot of people don't seem to know is a crossover belongs way up close to the motor, and X's belong way towards the end of the exhaust. (behind the axle on a full system) or as far back as it can be done.

Do we really need them? not really.
Do they both have a purpose? absolutely.
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I don't like the crossover cause it usually captures the tranny. Think I'll leave it alone. Thanks
 
The "H" pope should be no further back than the trans crossmember.
The "X" pipe crossing should be placed at the crossmember. Only because a driveshaft would get in the way any further back. Any further forward, you have a transmission in the way.

The H & X pipe helps balance pressure between the two side but the edge in performance goes to the X. It works a little better and helps with a few more upper RPM's.

The power differences have been documented before via car magazines. The difference amount is build and power level dependent. You can not blanket the gains by saying "yyy" amount for anH pipe and "eee" for an X pipe.
 
rumblefish360 said:
The "H" pope should be no further back than the trans crossmember.
The "X" pipe crossing should be placed at the crossmember. Only because a driveshaft would get in the way any further back. Any further forward, you have a transmission in the way.

The H & X pipe helps balance pressure between the two side but the edge in performance goes to the X. It works a little better and helps with a few more upper RPM's.

The power differences have been documented before via car magazines. The difference amount is build and power level dependent. You can not blanket the gains by saying "yyy" amount for anH pipe and "eee" for an X pipe.
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I can say that all the dyno work I did on V-8's I never saw a gain in either system, other than maybe a bit somewhere are pound peak torque. It usually rocked the peak a little. To me they are both worthless, unless you specifically engineer the entire exhaust and induction system for either one of them, and are concerned with a very narrow RPM range.

I have seen import guys dyno multiple exhaust systems at a time, back to back to back. When it was all said and done, the stock exhaust was the least power, but the aftermarket junk, with the doodads and such, were only marginally better.
 
yellow rose said:
I can say that all the dyno work I did on V-8's I never saw a gain in either system, other than maybe a bit somewhere are pound peak torque. It usually rocked the peak a little. To me they are both worthless, unless you specifically engineer the entire exhaust and induction system for either one of them, and are concerned with a very narrow RPM range.

I have seen import guys dyno multiple exhaust systems at a time, back to back to back. When it was all said and done, the stock exhaust was the least power, but the aftermarket junk, with the doodads and such, were only marginally better.
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For sure. it runs great without so, don't mess with something that's working
 
do a search on H or X pipe.
You'll get a lot posts telling you they make power,
...and you'll get a lot of posts telling you they don't make power
i'm in the second camp,no gain and if you think about it logically you'll join the second camp
 
YR, I can agree to that but only to a degree. The funny thing is sometimes the car goes faster with 2 pipes and mufflers ending at the axle and sometimes it doesn't.

Again, this is yet another case of a build dependent issue or owner wishes. Often in the build dependent arena, the gains and losses are subtle. Richard Petty found an advantage with the X pipe. Though we here are not building what he did ether.

In my experience what I wrote was accurate. Though most guys won't spend the money involved to find out. I don't blame them ether.
 
This reminds me of a joke

What does 80 year pussy taste like?

Depends.

There isn't a solid answer to the question. One combo may not like a crossover or X pipe and others will. It's that simple. There is NO WAY to answer the question on a substantive basis to cover EVERY combination. PERIOD!!!
 
crackedback said:
This reminds me of a joke

What does 80 year pussy taste like?

Depends.

There isn't a solid answer to the question. One combo may not like a crossover or X pipe and others will. It's that simple. There is NO WAY to answer the question on a substantive basis to cover EVERY combination. PERIOD!!!
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It's like a stepped header. Or the merge collector. When that **** hit the dyno made money with everyone slapping **** together.

It's a system. It starts at the hood scoop, air cleaner or whatever is the beginning of your induction system is, and it ends with the end of the exhaust system. It includes everything in between. Any other way of doing it is a joke. That's why the X or the H or whatever new marketing deal comes along, I just look the other way.

If the OP doesn't want to spend the money and TIME to test, he should leave it alone. Otherwise, the only thing moving faster is the money out of his bank account.


Rumble, I have seen many many cars go faster with muffs. Most of the time, you can trace it to collector length. Sometimes they are using too much overlap, and the exhaust reduces reversion a bit.

It is so much more than a piece of pipe or two, that I hate to see someone spend money, and then not definitively test the results.


Edit: who tastes 80 year old kittie? I don't have to ask, I know it's nasty. I'd certainly let crackedback do a taste test and get back to us.

Post results when you get them CB.
 
"Collector length!!!"
Ha ha ha ha, truth be spoken there!
 
YR, IMO, to much time and money are lost on the worry of not getting it all. On the "In general" hot rod and street striper the owner will loose more races than his car will.

I can Totally dig getting the most out of your build though. I myself am just not that worried about it. When the car is racing for the money, the game changes. I'm not racing for the money in the street. My tude is, "Ya wanna go? We go. Keep your money, I am." I win, I win, I lose, then I loose."
 
rumblefish360 said:
YR, IMO, to much time and money are lost on the worry of not getting it all. On the "In general" hot rod and street striper the owner will loose more races than his car will.

I can Totally dig getting the most out of your build though. I myself am just not that worried about it. When the car is racing for the money, the game changes. I'm not racing for the money in the street. My tude is, "Ya wanna go? We go. Keep your money, I am." I win, I win, I lose, then I loose."
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I have the California mufflers with the quiet disc in them straight out of the headers. Sounds incredible, runs fantastic and no clearance or weight added. I'll stay with them. Every time I hit the key and it rumbles to life, I get that feeling of pure bliss!!!
 
I have always run one, if nothing more than for the changes in exhaust tone. Seems most people won't dispute that purpose. Not everything we do to our cars is simply for added power.

I've read some things supporting X-pipes and others making them seem marginal. It seems very combo dependent.

My 2 cents, your mechanic is as you said, "old school"

I wouldn't go without one of the 2 and will always run an X if possible. unfortunately I had to run an H on my current car because of the GVOD.
 
roccodart440 said:
I have always run one, if nothing more than for the changes in exhaust tone. Seems most people won't dispute that purpose. Not everything we do to our cars is simply for added power.

I've read some things supporting X-pipes and others making them seem marginal. It seems very combo dependent.

My 2 cents, your mechanic is as you said, "old school"

I wouldn't go without one of the 2 and will always run an X if possible. unfortunately I had to run an H on my current car because of the GVOD.
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So, old school is bad? Just for reference.
 
I've got the Car Chemistry mufflers with the quiet disc straight out of the headers and man they sound sweet!!! no changes coming here, I was just wondering for future builds
 
dans4door1970 said:
I've got the Car Chemistry mufflers with the quiet disc straight out of the headers and man they sound sweet!!! no changes coming here, I was just wondering for future builds
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I just googled car chemistry and don't see them.

Do they look like a Custom Craft muffler? That you can find on google.
 
Never mind. That's what I run. Thought it was custom craft.

I've been using muffs like this since about 1992-1993.


Nice and growly.
 
yellow rose said:
I just googled car chemistry and don't see them.

Do they look like a Custom Craft muffler? That you can find on google.
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Go to summit racing. they have them. I bought the 3 1/2 ceramic with the 3 disc street setup. They are awesome and turn down under car
 
yellow rose said:
So, old school is bad? Just for reference.
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Old school isn't always bad. Technology and product availability has come along way since the 1960's. I'm just for taking advantage of the worthwhile improvements.


If you don't want a crossover, H or X, then don't run one. Simple.


Old school reminds me of the guy in my town who swears by his Mallory dual points, his thermoquad, his flex fan, his tiny rappy exhaust and his .509 cam. He gets his *** mopped and leaves the car home on hot days. He talks down on mine because I use new stuff that either isn't as good as the old stuff or ruined the car for taking the factory stuff off.
 
roccodart440 said:
Old school isn't always bad. Technology and product availability has come along way since the 1960's. I'm just for taking advantage of the worthwhile improvements.


If you don't want a crossover, H or X, then don't run one. Simple.


Old school reminds me of the guy in my town who swears by his Mallory dual points, his thermoquad, his flex fan, his tiny rappy exhaust and his .509 cam. He gets his *** mopped and leaves the car home on hot days. He talks down on mine because I use new stuff that either isn't as good as the old stuff or ruined the car for taking the factory stuff off.
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Then again, if it works, leave it alone
 
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