Cuda SRT8 392 Gen.III Hemi

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Joe Dokes said:
Used 5.7L truck motors are $1500.00 to 2500.00
Used 5.7L car motor are a bit more
Used 6.1L motors are typically in the $4,000.00 to $5,000.00
Used 6.4L motors are still pretty rare, I found a new one on ebay for 7K

Hope this gets you started.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...

You guys don't know where to look.

A used pre '09 5.7 (car) short block can be had for way less than $1K.

Guys are yanking them out to put in 6.1 based strokers.

The 5.7 based 392s are not very good perfromers.
 
I beg to differ on the 5.7 based 392's not being any good. Go over to lx forums and check it out, you might be surprised.
 
MP has just started re-making the 6.1 crate motors and can be had for around $5500 if you shop around.

Its a bit more coin than a used motor...but throw in a cam and its still good value compared to getting a 450HP small block built from scratch.
 
PowerWagon,

My numbers are based upon complete running motors with accessories. They are a bit old so prices may have come down a bit, but I don't think you'll find low mileage 6.1L Hemis for less than 3K and I think 4K is still in the ball park. Yes you can find blown motors or short blocks for a lot less. But I think someone trying to do one of these projects is a lot better off buying a complete running motor with accessories. In past projects I've tried to go the piece together route and have almost always spent more. :( In my experience it's the little stuff that really adds up fast.

I also believe that any 5.7L Hemi can be made to run extremely well. The pre-09 heads can be made to flow really well, in the range of 300-325 CFM, if you're willing to change the valves. The '10 5.7 heads are even better. Some even argue, (I don't agree) that the 5.7 block is stronger.

The only issue that I've seen with any of these motors is that if running over 20 PSI of boost you are probably better off sticking to the stock 3.58" stroke since a longer stroke excessively loads the thrust side of the cylinder wall and can lead to block failure. Of course, with ported heads and over 20 PSI of boost the motor is probably putting out in excess of 1000 HP.

The fact that these motors can and do survive in situations with over a 1000 HP is a testament to the designers. For example, in this months issue of Car Craft they build a 1200 HP Chevy LS motor. They bragged about how it wasn't a "race motor." But as you read through the build it turned out they used an aftermarket block, crank, rods, pistons, heads. I don't think there was a stock in the motor. Compare that to a 1000 HP 6.1 Hemi. I think you could build a 1000 HP Hemi with a stock block, stock forged crank, stock ported heads, aftermarket rods, aftermarket pistons.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
5.7 hemi said:
I beg to differ on the 5.7 based 392's not being any good. Go over to lx forums and check it out, you might be surprised.
Click to expand...

I was a regular on LX Forums & pioneered many of the performance mods to the LX platform

I was the 1st to successfully change the axle gear ratio in an LX. I pioneered the use of M & H Frontrunners on the LX. I was the 1st 5.7 powered LX to break the 12.1 mark N/A. I was the 1st 5.7 powered LX to run under 11.5 & held that record for some time. (11.30 @ 121.87)


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhG0KlXEOnU"]Atco track rental 2009 04 13 Powerwagon 11.3 nitrous run - YouTube[/ame]

I worked W/Paramount Performance on the 8.8 Ford conversions & ran the 2nd prototype running 12 flat W/a shitty 2800 stal & a rich tune (for a different camshaft) on my 1st appearance W/the 3.23 axle ratio 8.8 on 28" rubber weighing in @ 4300#.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Sbz2Etl_A"]PowerWagon 12.06 N/A Track Day @ Atco Rental 04-13-09 - YouTube[/ame]

The 5.7 based 392 are NOT the greatest performers.

I outran most of them W/my N/A 5.7. Even the best 5.7 based 392 could not hold a candle to a 6.1 based 392.

It's an under square engine & it doesn have very good volumetric effeciancy..

Joe Dokes said:
PowerWagon,


I also believe that any 5.7L Hemi can be made to run extremely well. The pre-09 heads can be made to flow really well, in the range of 300-325 CFM, if you're willing to change the valves. The '10 5.7 heads are even better. Some even argue, (I don't agree) that the 5.7 block is stronger.


Joe Dokes
Click to expand...
Ya Think?
 
Power Wagon,

Sounds like you got a 5.7L Hemi to run pretty well to me. 11.30s in a 4300# car is very fast.

Let me try to clarify what your saying. You're basically arguing that in a naturally aspirated 6.1L Hemi with it's 4.055" inch bore has an advantage over the 3.92" found in the 5.7L Hemi, since the bigger bore allows the intake and exhaust valve to pull away from the cylinder wall that much faster.

I would agree with that. I'd also agree that a 5.7 stroked to 392 with its smaller bore probably is down on power compared to a 6.1 stroked to a 392. All that being said, I'd still argue that it is possible to get serious power out of a stroked 5.7L hemi. I'd also argue that your ability to beat 392 based 5.7L Hemis probably had more to do with the totality of your setup than the limitation of the 3.92" bore of the 5.7L motor. In other words, it was your hard work that allowed you to beat those other cars.

For example, I use to run a VW base sandrail and with an 82mm X 90.5mm motor for a total displacement of 2110. I would routinely spank guys running 82mm X 94mm motors with a total displacement of 2275. Why, attention to detail and getting my combination to work better. My 90.5 piston should have shrouded the valve a bit more than the 94 piston and the extra 165 cc should have also made a small but real difference. But many times guys don't get their combo to work perfectly, thus they lose.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes said:
Power Wagon,

Sounds like you got a 5.7L Hemi to run pretty well to me. 11.30s in a 4300# car is very fast.

Let me try to clarify what your saying. You're basically arguing that in a naturally aspirated 6.1L Hemi with it's 4.055" inch bore has an advantage over the 3.92" found in the 5.7L Hemi, since the bigger bore allows the intake and exhaust valve to pull away from the cylinder wall that much faster.

I would agree with that. I'd also agree that a 5.7 stroked to 392 with its smaller bore probably is down on power compared to a 6.1 stroked to a 392. All that being said, I'd still argue that it is possible to get serious power out of a stroked 5.7L hemi. I'd also argue that your ability to beat 392 based 5.7L Hemis probably had more to do with the totality of your setup than the limitation of the 3.92" bore of the 5.7L motor. In other words, it was your hard work that allowed you to beat those other cars.

For example, I use to run a VW base sandrail and with an 82mm X 90.5mm motor for a total displacement of 2110. I would routinely spank guys running 82mm X 94mm motors with a total displacement of 2275. Why, attention to detail and getting my combination to work better. My 90.5 piston should have shrouded the valve a bit more than the 94 piston and the extra 165 cc should have also made a small but real difference. But many times guys don't get their combo to work perfectly, thus they lose.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...

The advantage of an oversquare 6.1 based 392 compared to an undersquare 5.7 based 392 also has to do W/rod angles, piston speed & other geometric factors.

The 5.7 based 392s are just not a combination that seemed to be willing to take off & I'm sure a combination based on the 5.7?392 coiuld outperform s stock 5.7 rotating asssembly combo.

If it were me, I would find a 5.7 block thatb sonic tested to have suffecient wall thickness to allow an .080" overbore to 4.00" (they exist) & utilize a 3.875" " stroke.

That would yield 390 Cu In & a much better geometry for maximum performance. Very close to the 6.1 based 392.
 
PowerWagon896 said:
If it were me, I would find a 5.7 block thatb sonic tested to have suffecient wall thickness to allow an .080" overbore to 4.00" (they exist) & utilize a 3.875" " stroke.

That would yield 390 Cu In & a much better geometry for maximum performance. Very close to the 6.1 based 392.
Click to expand...

Which heads would you recommend for this combo ...5.7 Eagles or 6.1s?
 
What has happened to this build? This thing is the coolest thing going and BAM! crickets...
 
72BBSwinger said:
What has happened to this build? This thing is the coolest thing going and BAM! crickets...
Click to expand...

If he's anything like me, he ran out of money. :(

I hope all is well with him, and like you I'd like to see him finish the project as well.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Oh, I'm still around but have a number of things affecting my project status and posts. Last spring my wife and I decided to sell our two story home of 28 years and move closer to work, into a one story home. What a journey that has been. After a lot of repairs and upgrades I completed myself (while working full time job), we finally got it on the market in September. It sold in three days for considerably more than we were asking for it. Multiple bids, the whole crazy market thing, etc.

We couldn't find a nice place to buy, so EVERYTHING (including the Cuda and Challenger) had to go into storage and we stayed in a hotel for a while. We finally found a pretty nice home (that we had to compete for and bid over the listed price to get), but we have a lot of settling in to do, plus I have to set up my garage / shop all over again.

The body shell of the Cuda is at my new place now, but I won't be touching it until after I get us settled in a little more for the wife's comfort and happiness. While I didn't work on the car this whole year, I did find the time to order and purchase a new Strange S60 rear end. She's powder coated in satin black and looks real sweet. I also got on the phone with Baer Brakes and bought the rear brakes to match my front Baers, since the decision had been made on the rear end wheel bearing flanges, etc.

I know I took pictures of the S60 before I stuck her in storage, I just have to find the right storage box that has my camera! I'm not sure if I took pics of the brakes, but I'll know that when find my camera.

I hope you all had a Merry Christmas and please have a safe New Year celebration!


72BBSwinger said:
What has happened to this build? This thing is the coolest thing going and BAM! crickets...
Click to expand...
 
Has anyone found some cool digital gauges? I'm looking for something that reads like the new technology gauges in the newest Chrysler products. It's not the type of readout like the Dakota Digital stuff. Those are very antiquated LED stuff. The new Chrysler products (and I just drove a new Malibu with the same type MPH readout) have a MPH reading that, well, very hard for me to describe in words. I'm not sure what the technology is that allows this type of numeral readouts, but it's NOT the Dakota Digital type stuff. Would love to adapt the new technology into the dash of my Cuda...
 
Are you talking about CAN-BUS?
 
5.7 Hemi,
I bought an ISIS system for my car. I suppose it would be described as a CAN-BUS system. The type of speedo readout I'm looking for is like what comes in the newer Chargers (and other new Mopars I'm sure). It's has a digital readout in the center that looks really cool. I drove a new Malibu the other day that had a similar screen with the same type of number readout. They're NOT the LED type that Dakota Digital gauges have.
 
Yes, very much like what you'd see on a TV screen or computer monitor. Cool looking "graphic" display, is the only way I know how to describe it...
 
You can do it with megasquirt using a tablet. Not the solution you're after but it's the only one I know of.

Search 'shadow dash MS'. Look at the images. It's open source so you can make a gauge display as well.
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=133&t=46932&sid=9a085923e02c8385945ecb69552bb666


Alternatively, if you're using an OBD2 port with your install, you could use one of the OBD2 programs that connects via Bluetooth and gives you all the pertinent data on a tablet. A lot of guys use OBD2 to tablet/phone for racing applications.

First option I found (I'm sure there is better available):
http://www.pocketables.com/2011/02/merge-your-tablet-with-your-car-with-obd-ii.html

You could also do something with a permanent install car computer.
 
Ah YES! Uhcoog1, that's very much the style of graphics I'm looking for. Preferably in singe gauges though. I'll look through that second link some more. Any idea what that style of graphics is called technologically?
 
That's the stuff! Thank you. So it is LCD technology and not LED. I'll be pursuing that and see what I can find and get. It would be nice if Autometer makes something that will work for me. I'd feel comfortable working with Autometer. We'll see. Thanks again!!!
 
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