Cutting strut rod bushings for correct geometry?

[Revhendo]

Yes K"s are all the same from Contol arm to strut rod flange length

The shorter rods are for the two piece are always coarse thread on bushing end see picks above

No matter what your car is used for Bushings should be tightened at correct ride hieght when alligned.

I use early SS rear springs . Everyone that uses these knows they make the car lean after installed. The reason is to accomendate for torque to the left rear. On most of the older SS cars using these springs If you look at picture you will notice their front wheels do not drop out on launch. This is because they either are cabled up or have Upper a arm bumper extentions. which helps eliminate bump steer

Preloading the right rear does help with those uneven SS springs. I am not going to get into why but here is what I do.

First most mopars are not built or welded together correctly. How many of you go to burn out contests and see cars that want to spin around when doing a burnout. this also effects the launch.

Where the leaf spring bracket bolts to the front of the car. The flat surface with the four holes where the studs go through. Alot of cars especially non perfomance models that were auto/open rear cars were not straight. Mine was 1/2 inch off. and seen worse. An easy check is where that is welded to the frame rail there is a tab that is welded to the bottom of the rail. In front of that tab is a hole about 3/4 inch . Measure from that tab to the hole. you will see a difference if your car is not built straight . Mine was 3/8 difference from side to side. you can shim the short side back to correct this. Measure from K-member mounting bolt back to the pad to get the correct thickness of the shim needed. I made a 1/2 inch plate with four holes out of aluminum and put it in front of that spring that had to come back. After putting in longer studs.

Then preload , With car setting on level surface jack the car in the center of the rear. This lets the car sit on three points . adjust your front bars to sit approximately 1/4 inch above lower Control arm bumpers. Make sure your bumpers are new or the same hieght. This levels your suspension without sitting on the uneven SS springs. When you leave the car down the car will lean to the left front. Jack weight to the left front with the bar adjuster until both rubber bumpers are the same. Usually the bumper space will raise to about 1/2 inch before it levels This differs from car to car. somethig you'll have to play with. Always do this without the stabilizer bar attached. Then reattached it when done. Remove left link from stabilizer bar when drag racing for even transfer.

I owned several Dana cars that used these springs from the factory. and always used this method on those cars also. It works for me.

Put a spacer under upper a arm bumper to shorten the distance the front drops out when launching. If yo have a deep pan or headers that hang. On a drag car you can add a spacer under the lower arm bumper just to make up the space between the frame and the rubber bumper. This will prevent your pan or headers from scraping when coming back down. six cyl. bars cause this travel to be excessive and quicker but are weak coming down. mine still sqashes the rubber and just touches the one tube I have to move up. Poly bumpers are stiffer and give more control but you will have to keep an eye on them .They do not take as much abuse as the rubber. I have poly on mine and have spares.

My front shocks are 90/10. my backs are QA-1's I have the right rear 2 clicks tighter then the left But again this is what works for me. I do not road race my car. My front wheels are 3 inch the rears are 12 inch. With a spool it doesn't like to turn. I run a tightened up clutch suregrip on the street. One reason I stayed with a 8 3/4 easy gear and chunk change for different uses.

I will be going to Cal-tracs soon with monos. This will probably change things for me and then I will be asking some questions.

In the same context, you should point out that these mods you list here are for a track car and are not safe for a street car.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

In the same context, you should point out that these mods you list here are for a track car and are not safe for a street car.

The only thing mentioned here that would be only for a track car only would be The 3 inch wheels plus the 90 / 10's. And if you don't know that these drag only you should pack it in. None of these things I explained have anything to do with modifying or cutting any moving suspension parts.But thats ok I can understand that not all of us have the comon sense to know better. So! Just so you know these procedures are for, As Mentioned Super Stock spring use. And this answer was for the person who asked about suspension preload. For you my sugestion would be to install what ever parts you have on hand and if they don't fit get out the saw and proper heavy hammer to make the correct adjustments for your professional modifications and installation proceedures your good buddy suggests. Steve

 

[autoxcuda]

If I was involved with championship black top oval racing as you are . I wouldn't be using stamped steel arms and struts from the 60's. With whats on the market today there is tubular arms and coil overs. also cambered spindles. and suspension built for evey application. I am not saying I am the professional here. But I am stating facts on how the average person can resolve a problem without a saw and a hammer.

There's a time and place for everything. My car is still street driven. But yes, I have now changed/upgraded to heim tubular upper control arms, heim tie rods, and heim strut rods. Mostly for the precision, not that I thought the stock stuff would break on me. Most aftermarket stuff is no more reliable milage-wise than stock. The picture I showed above with the cut poly bushing is just after putting in the full Hotchkis kit. The factory stuff mostly breaks when it's rusted or broken parts have overstressed other parts.

Cutting the bushing to the factory length is not modifying the geometry. Just putting it back to where it was stock. Then using the replacement style flatter type washers that you common see on cars from replacement kits over the years. The whole assembly is greased for movement and to prevent squeaking

Are you saying not to use poly bushings at all? Or just that you should leave the thick ones only on the 73-76 strut rods?

When yours broke did you use the early one piece poly bushing or the thicker 73-76 two piece type?

If you are putting spacers under the upper control arm of your race car, you must be pulling the front wheels off the ground or close go it. Then the car comes down. Do you think the stress that action put on the strut rod have any weakening effect on it prior to you putting on poly strut rods?

 

[Revhendo]

The only thing mentioned here that would be only for a track car only would be The 3 inch wheels plus the 90 / 10's. And if you don't know that these drag only you should pack it in. None of these things I explained have anything to do with modifying or cutting any moving suspension parts.But thats ok I can understand that not all of us have the comon sense to know better. So! Just so you know these procedures are for, As Mentioned Super Stock spring use. And this answer was for the person who asked about suspension preload. For you my sugestion would be to install what ever parts you have on hand and if they don't fit get out the saw and proper heavy hammer to make the correct adjustments for your professional modifications and installation proceedures your good buddy suggests. Steve

You forgot to mention your bumpstop extensions that WILL place undue stress on the ball joints in everyday (even if you work straight down the road from where you live) driving. Oh, and the spool? How does that work in the piggely wiggely parking lot?

From the factory, all was not perfect (as you have stated). I've been doing front ends for a couple of days now and I have had upon occasion had to rework stock strut rods/bushings to get the arm in a better relation to the pivot pin or LCA bushing. This isn't actually just a Mopar problem, it happens on other makes as well.

 

[rob_robinson87]

Because you claim to have more common sense doesn't mean you do.

At the time of the front end rebuild, there were no graphite poly bushings available for the 1968 Barracuda front end (only those thicker made bushings were available). The modification was done with precise measuring and comparing to the older worn out rubber bushings as well as a new set of rubber bushings. This wasn't a cut and throw on deal. Due to the posting space here, I limited my explaination to a short description. My suspension is 1000 times more sound than the stock front end ever was. All parts were installed with correct torque on the wheels as well as upgrading to C-body tie rod links, quality ball joints, rebuilt steering box, and the addition of a quality sway bar (mine didn't come with one) and disc brakes. Alignment was done by a highly qualified technician on the most current equipment and came into alignment very easily. I even had them check my work in case I missed something. I have put about 15000 miles on it since and haven't had a bit of trouble. It steers straight and tracks perfectly. It is now fun to drive.

As we all know, everyone has their opinion. Just because you don't like mine, doesn't make yours better.

The only thing mentioned here that would be only for a track car only would be The 3 inch wheels plus the 90 / 10's. And if you don't know that these drag only you should pack it in. None of these things I explained have anything to do with modifying or cutting any moving suspension parts.But thats ok I can understand that not all of us have the comon sense to know better. So! Just so you know these procedures are for, As Mentioned Super Stock spring use. And this answer was for the person who asked about suspension preload. For you my sugestion would be to install what ever parts you have on hand and if they don't fit get out the saw and proper heavy hammer to make the correct adjustments for your professional modifications and installation proceedures your good buddy suggests. Steve

 

[rob_robinson87]

That's exactly how mine looks. Yours gets a little more abuse than mine does.

That's my car or Matt Grubel's.

I cut it on a lathe. But you could use a hacksaw. Problem solved. Cost: $0.00

Here's some picture of the setup. I ran it from about 1995 to 2010.

 

[Brad426]

Great info and thank you. I though I was going nuts when I replaced all my front bushings with Energy Suspension Poly's. My first clue something was not adding up was that the front nut on the drag link would not go past the hole where the roll pin was located. I though due to the bushing ES supplied. Later I noticed this gap on the LCA mount assy. After I read this thread it all made sense,,,,back to the shop...I think it would of been nice of ES to have a note on the instructions. Cheers

 

[Mad Dart]

Great info and thank you. I though I was going nuts when I replaced all my front bushings with Energy Suspension Poly's. My first clue something was not adding up was that the front nut on the drag link would not go past the hole where the roll pin was located. I though due to the bushing ES supplied. Later I noticed this gap on the LCA mount assy. After I read this thread it all made sense,,,,back to the shop...I think it would of been nice of ES to have a note on the instructions. Cheers

So your thicker bushings are keeping the LCA from seating all the way in? So the strut rods must have been installed before you started to tighten down the LCA 's.
I am curious, did you pay a shop to set all that up for you?? That is messed up big time if that is the case! Especially on a build like yours!

 

[Brad426]

Yes, it looks like the thicker bushings are keeping the LCA from seating all the way in. Yes I installed strut rods first. No $ for shops right now. I'm a DIY guy learing from experanced guys like the ones above. My next plan is to remove everything. Replace the Energy Suspension Polies with Moog K7040 and leave the front bushiings to be tighten at alignment time.

 

[Mad Dart]

Yes, it looks like the thicker bushings are keeping the LCA from seating all the way in. Yes I installed strut rods first. No $ for shops right now. I'm a DIY guy learing from experanced guys like the ones above. My next plan is to remove everything. Replace the Energy Suspension Polies with Moog K7040 and leave the front bushiings to be tighten at alignment time.

Sounds good. I just purchased these Strut Rods from Reilly Motorsports last week along with his Upper Control Arms. Doing a Coil over Conversion.

His Strut Rods are 100.00 Cheaper than the Hotchkis stuff.

http://www.reillymotorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16167&cat=266&page=1

 

[Oldmanmopar]

The 72 and back one piece and two piece bushings for the struts are are available at any Napa in moog. 72 back is a different PN# than 73 up. the suspension kit I bought for my cars came with the wrong bushings. They sent me the correct bushings when I made them aware of their problem with install. The bushings they sent me were one piece poly's. The two piece moog have a collar built into the rubber that seats into the hole in the K-member plus a sleeve that slides onto the rod. The poly does not have the built in sleeve that slides into the K-member hole. this causes the lip on the bushing to sheer and move up and down.. always put the male part of the bushing in the front facing back. This keeps the strut centered in the hole when applying the brakes. The strut is always pulling on the rubber bushing. It only pushes when you apply your brakes in reverse. On all polly bushing lowers the bushing slides on both inner and outer sleeves. So there is no way to pull the lower into place once the strut rod holds it back because its to thick.

Yes the two piece bushings can be used with any year suspension parts as long as you use the correct strut rods from 73 and up

 

[MopaR&D]

OK so I decided not to cut those old bushings and bought a set of the Moog 2-piece for a 1970 A-body and they fit great. Only thing is, they come without a sleeve and the directions specify to torque the locknut to 40-60 ft-lbs. I barely got to 20 and the bushings looked really squished, I was afraid of splitting them if I went any farther. What is the proper technique for this??

 

[Andrev8]

I just cutted my Energy Suspension strut rod bushing.

See the pics:

Just follow the autocuda tips, think it will work very wel.

Lest keep talking

André Monc.

 

[MopaR&D]

Nice that looks great, way to go! I would've done the same but I put new Moog bushings in my car; probably not as easy to come by in Brazil though. BTW the car now runs and I have it aligned with over 5* of caster which is wonderful, the car literally feels glued to the road even at 120 MPH (don't ask how I know LOL...). What tool did you use to cut the bushings?

 

[Rbob]

The 72 and back one piece and two piece bushings for the struts are are available at any Napa in moog. 72 back is a different PN# than 73 up. the suspension kit I bought for my cars came with the wrong bushings. They sent me the correct bushings when I made them aware of their problem with install. The bushings they sent me were one piece poly's. The two piece moog have a collar built into the rubber that seats into the hole in the K-member plus a sleeve that slides onto the rod. The poly does not have the built in sleeve that slides into the K-member hole. this causes the lip on the bushing to sheer and move up and down.. always put the male part of the bushing in the front facing back. This keeps the strut centered in the hole when applying the brakes. The strut is always pulling on the rubber bushing. It only pushes when you apply your brakes in reverse. On all polly bushing lowers the bushing slides on both inner and outer sleeves. So there is no way to pull the lower into place once the strut rod holds it back because its to thick.

Yes the two piece bushings can be used with any year suspension parts as long as you use the correct strut rods from 73 and up

Now I have to check to see what I may have done, I switched to the 73-76 K-frame and probably have my 67 strut rods all pretty and ready to install.

Thanks for this info.

Every day I find out that I have a lot more to learn, gees when I was 20 years old I though I knew everything. What the hell happened?

Now on the hunt for some 73-76 strut rods. LOL!

 

[Andrev8]

Nice that looks great, way to go! I would've done the same but I put new Moog bushings in my car; probably not as easy to come by in Brazil though. BTW the car now runs and I have it aligned with over 5* of caster which is wonderful, the car literally feels glued to the road even at 120 MPH (don't ask how I know LOL...). What tool did you use to cut the bushings?

I cutted then on a lathe. Not me, but the guy that works there. Looks an easy work if you know how to use a lathe.

Thanks for the coment man!

Let´s keep talking.

 

[zhandfull]

I'm going to bump this thread because there is some good information in it. I'm currently working on a 73+ set up and I'm going all poly bushings. Don't have the strut rod bushings yet. Seems there may be two different part numbers depending on year if pre 73 and 73+ model years. Anybody have those part numbers and a recommendation on where to buy them?