dart headers

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Locomotion said:
Thanks, but I still can't agree with some of your blanket statements:

* "and only in a small rpm range and they defintiely do not flow as well as a true 1 3/4 header"

* "At any rate its hard to beat a straight 1 5/8 or 1 3/4 since in the proper application either will make more overall power than a step tube design".

- The exhaust dyno comparisons show the step headers as better across the board over 1 5/8" and 1 3/4" headers on a very mild 360. http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...0307_mopar_crate_engine_exhaust/photo_17.html Then there is the fact of a lot of higher rpm Mopar small block Stockers use them with good results. As mentioned earlier, besides TTI's, I've seen several examples of custom steps, some starting as small as 1 1/2" or actually port-matched. A 1-2,000 rpm difference in operating range between engine combos can't be considered a "small rpm range".

There are other factors that come into play. Jetting should be checked and adjusted any time there is an exhaust change to optimize the combo, just as noted in the intake manifold discussion. I don't think that was done in the header comparison so we can't say for sure if TTI's would have been even better or worse. As an example, I added a 3" X-pipe with Dynomax Ultraflows and it ran at least as fast as before. Then with slightly leaner jetting, it picked up a bit more. But I agree with you that certain combos/applications would prefer smaller tubes for torque based on the rpm range they run in the most.

A specific header can be better than another in a very specific application because there are bore, stroke, cam, rpm, weight, etc. differences that can change the diameter requirements, tube lengths, equal/unequal lengths for fitment, etc., even if the difference are small. There are plenty of good performing examples of straight and stepped headers. The debate is an old one and can go on forever. One interesting story is about a very fast 340 Mopar racer who spent $3,000 on a set of custom stainless headers. I don't know what he was running before (I'm sure it wasn't a $100.00 mail order special), but the new set didn't help any! Why it didn't run better could have been one or more of many reasons, not just because it was stepped.

But when racers who look for every .01 of ET do use stepped headers, I pay attention. Just don't make blanket comparison statements putting a particular type down. There are too many variable and examples either way. I'm just giving examples of combos that TTI's do work in and people can factor in their own variables and priorities, whether they are financial, performance or convenience.
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Great debate,I appreciate the counterpoints and will leave you with this.The article actually reinforces exactly what I and the engine masters article found with step headers.In the article the tti gains about 10 peak h.p. over the 1 5/8 and in a narrow window (500rpm) and less through a rougly 1,500 rpm range,and 8 lb.s ft of tq.,exactly as I said-the h.p gains would be low,low teens and in the quarter would be roughly a tenth.It also shows that the 1 3/4 tubes are too big and dont produce any more power,again this is what I have found and even though this is around a 330 h.p. engine I have seen this same pattern give or take a couple h.p. to around the low 400 h.p. mark,after that its more combo specific and a 1 3/4 tube could prove superior.I already stated that in your case they could work since your operating in a narrow range or rpm with stock heads and looking for every tenth.As the article shows thats about all your gaining with them but thats racing,this is pretty much splitting hairs in a street car.If a guy has the money to burn and an automatic car that sees mostly street and doesnt want to worry about scraping headers then thats great.Just dont expect to use them with a four speed without some cutting and welding and forget about a scattershield unless you want to hack it as well,and lastly dont expect a magic 20 h.p. over 1 5/8 headers.People should be well informed of the whole story when laying down $700.00,not just "they are great" or "best money spent" but all the pros and cons,after all you dont know what they are after and they may be dissapointed.
 
lead69 said:
Btw,since were looking at some magazine articles heres a good example of fast with 1 5/8 headers on a 416 no less,114 mph is cookin. http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/a_body/mopp_0806_1970_dodge_duster/index.html
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And heres a picture of a car that goes 11.0's at 121 with tti "step headers":thumbrig::thumbrig:

DSCF0101.jpg
 
stroked 340 said:
And heres a picture of a car that goes 11.0's at 121 with tti "step headers":thumbrig::thumbrig:
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It would be faster with a set of hooker super comps or headman husslers. 8)

Had 360 cars run deep in the 10's with cheapo 1 5/8 hooker/headmans. So the point about running 11's with tti's is... whatever...

Where do you think tti got the routing up top for their tubes... you think they came up with that, it's the same as dougs and the collector is in the same spot too... Hmmm...
 
stroked 340 said:
And heres a picture of a car that goes 11.0's at 121 with tti "step headers":thumbrig::thumbrig:
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Thats great!,but since you choosing to wade into the performance end of the discussion I must assume you have tried 1 5/8s as well as 1 3/4 headers right?.I mean you wouldnt just post stuff to look good with no merit to back it up,right?.
 
lead69 said:
Thats great!,but since you choosing to wade into the performance end of the discussion I must assume you have tried 1 5/8s as well as 1 3/4 headers right?.I mean you wouldnt just post stuff to look good with no merit to back it up,right?.
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Stop making sense...

He has no rebuttal other than you get what you pay for.

Low 10's, 360 with 1 5/8 headers, no tti junk required.
 
Had 360 cars run deep in the 10's with cheapo 1 5/8 headers..
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Sure you did...how much were you spraying???..

[/quote]Where do you think tti got the routing up top for their tubes... you think they came up with that, it's the same as dougs and the collector is in the same spot too... Hmmm...[/quote]

the center driverside tubes on tti's are run differently then Dougs..
 
All im gonna say is that NO header is going to go in without some probems...im using hedman 1-5/8's on my car with a 4 speed and power steering..some have had them fit fine, i had to bang mine in a couple of places..paid 150 for them used...was putting them in frustrating and took a couple of hours? YES...Would i pay 700 (which is a total ripoff in my opinion) for a set of headers because they save me from frustration, more time putting them in, burnt spark plugs (Which is b.s. by the way since tons have guys have got around this with 90 degree boots), and better ground clearance? (id be wary of bumps anyways in cars like these)...HELL NO! imo you have to be a real douche to want to spend 400 bucks more for headers becase they are easier to put in...id rather save my money, since my time doesnt cost me anything...besides, at that point you could have a set of super comps or custom ones made up...and i wouldnt follow all the tti's re so great opinions...plenty have had problems with them ,as with every product, so you could drop 700 bucks on these magical pipes only to have problems later- then maybe you'll think to yourself those 99 dollar specials may have been the better bet

so my opinion, buy the cheapest summit brand headers you can find that will work with p/s and A/C LOL...good luck man!
 
stroked 340 said:
You need to change your username to "crackhead"...:thebirdm::thebirdm:
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Ah yes, resort to personal attacks.

You're weak... Go blow up that non juiced stroker again. How those SIR working for you... LOL Proof of your ignorance is in the pudding.
 
crackedback said:
Ah yes, resort to personal attacks.

You're weak... Go blow up that non juiced stroker again. How those SIR working for you... LOL Proof of your ignorance is in the pudding.
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Ignorant??..go look in the mirror.. only someone like you would wish that someone else's engine would blow up.:bootysha::bootysha:and the sir rods are holding up just fine in my "stock" stroked 360 which by the way would blow the doors off of anything you got to put up against it:thebirdm::thebirdm::thebirdm:
 
Yes you are ignorant.... go look up the definition. you know... lacking comprehension of the thing specified

Like the many that told you to avoid/not use the SIR rods in your stroker because of their suspect history

or

Saying tti makes the best header for A bodies, regardless of application... (for which you need a lifetime supply of napkins!)

But you know better than those that have tread the waters before you. Yes, that's ignorant!

Looks like you learned your lesson with those rods since they appear to not be headed back into the stroker.

Engines blow up eventually, that's what happens. Every time you drive it, you risk smoking it... Thought you were smarter than that, at least you seem to think so.

This message is hidden because stroked 340 is on your ignore list.
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Have at it...
 
If i'm on your ignore list why do you keep chiming in LOSER:thebirdm::thebirdm::thebirdm:,and i don't know it all, i've got a lot to learn but it certainly WON'T be you teaching me anything:bootysha::bootysha::bootysha:
 
alrite guys back to business on headers maybe?
 
crackedback said:
Guys on this site have had issues with tti's hitting steering, PS boxes, torsion bars, z bars, etc...
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When I went to install new TTIs on my car last winter they hit the steering linkage and driver's side torsion bar badly. After getting the engine sitting in there correctly according to TTI instructions, shimming motor mounts, egging out holes to push engine back 1/4", the headers fit great and required no dents.

So my point is just because someone had issues with TTI fitment does not mean it is the header. Chrylser was very sloppy with the k-frames and a lot of times the engines don't sit in there correctly causing the headers to hit.
 
340sFastback said:
So my point is just because someone had issues with TTI fitment does not mean it is the header. Chrylser was very sloppy with the k-frames and a lot of times the engines don't sit in there correctly causing the headers to hit.
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Exactly... just like Dougs or tti's sometimes hit things and it's usually the engine in the wrong spot.
 
25 years ago when I put the cheap headers on they never fit. I dented them all up, bent the tubes etc. Now here we are all these years later and I find out my engine just does not sit in the car correctly.

Even if you don't run TTIs go to their site and down load their Installation Instructions which have specs on where the engine is supposed to be located. Getting it in the right location will help those other brand headers fit as well.
 
I just finished putting the left side header in my 68 Barracuda with a 318 auto and power steering. They are the cheap Jeg's brand. I was tough to get in but it's in there with no denting and looks like clearance everywhere. I might need a small dent by the steering coupler or maybe just a 1/4 inch shim under the motor mount. I also bought the cheap Jegs dual 2 1/2" kit and their 2 1/2" H pipe kit.

I'm working on building a 360 and a 73 disc brake setup but I just need something to get me though the summer beacuse the stock single 2" system was a drag, and I just don't have the money to finish my 360 (mainly the tranny and rear end actually.)

I was going to go with TTIs headers and dual x pipe kit but that would have taken me even another year to save up for! Now I'll be ready once spring hits and have enough money saved over the summer to get the 360 and disc setup in there over next winter. Then I'll do interior the winter after that. I've had this Barracuda 4 years and am jacked to finally see some progress on the car and not just pretty assemblys (the 360 and rebuilt '73 suspension setup) and sitting in the garage.

Sorry for the long post but bottom line I don't know how I can go wrong with these $100 headers.
 
recently spoke with Mark from http://www.perfweldheaders.com/index.html about building headers for my Dart. Granted it is not a small block, but he is mentioned a three step approach. Also mentioned was if I knew what size tubing my exhaust was going to be made of he can build my headers so that they work in conjunction with a closed exhaust. anybody care to offer there opinion?
 
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