Decision making was never my strong point...HELP lol

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metallidart

metallidart

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Long story short, got 2 threads going, one with my 360 magnum build, and another with my 68 Dart 2dr post build. Soon, hopefully, I will only need ONE thread.

Or, maybe not.

The other day I had the opportunity to get some big block parts, at a decent price, from a retired racer. All of it good, quality parts. I told the misses I would resell it and use it towards Christmas, the house, whatever. She says, you don't have to (apparently I didn't hide my "new parts excitement" too well). I got thinking about the recent low comp 440 build thread. How a friend of mine has a complete, running, 440/727 still in a motorhome for $500, with 35k miles. How I have never done a big block mopar. How light this car is.

But, then I think, you already have everything to get it running. You are so close.

Yeah, so is winter.

But you need headers, and the mount swap kit. More $$$

But, you might get enough out of the magnum, especially since the mp cam will work with a computer. It would be a real fun engine in a Dakota or Durango. You could get a cam/lifters for the 440, port the heads, used intake, and dump whatever else on headers.

The car is manual everything, a post car, with relocated rear springs. A natural for a bb swap.

WHAT DO I DO???????
 
Exactly what I keep thinking, I am pretty sure I can find some used for a decent price. I already have a double roller chain, new hv pump, mp "077" springs, all kinds of stuff.
 
if your going to do this swap ...I would leave the 440 the way it is if it runs good and get in the car way before I would start taking the engine apart.

its going to cost and not be an easy task just to get in the car ....if you start taking the engine apart and buying pistons and engine parts then I hope you have some deep pockets.

even if it is a motor home engine, it will still scoot that little car like a rocket, I have a 72 dart that I big block swapped and its just a low compression 440 circa 1976 but with the street tires I have it is way more than enough boost on the street.

then once it is one piece and later after you have the car set-up for BB then its as easy pulling the engine doing your thing and bolting it back together.

you need to be aware, you need an oil pan ...that's not a huge deal but they are different ...you need a 187 or 699 pan

also what kind of swap kit are you going to use?

you can go cheap and go with a Schumacher swap kit ....but that's all it is ....CHEAP.

when I started out I used the Schumacher and it was cheap and served its purpose but if you really care about this car you definitely want a better set-up ...meaning a spool mount DC conversion K or ...I have seen you can weld ....you can probably make something that is a lot better than schumachers .....Shcumachers are for flippers.

I put a 383 in another dart and I used a former slant six K and made my own setup that is strong and easy to work with.

also exhaust is a huge problem, RB headers are high dollar ....your RV manifolds will most likely not work depending on the year ...you can either spend huge coin on headers or big money on HP manifolds ....or you can use log type manifolds which are cheap enough ....but not all of them are the same and it is real picky as to which ones will work.

if your going 4 speed, then your opening up a whole can of worms and probably another $1500 to start out.....if you go auto then you need floor shift, but the auto will be a lot easier .... a lot easier and cheaper ....and there is a chance that the 727 from the RV wont work .....some of those RVs had a freaky deaky tailshaft.....wont work.

plus ....im sure your aware that its not just a drag and drop from the motorhome to the car ....soooooo many things are different and if you do it right plan on some more coin ......when I did mine I changed the valve covers, intake, air cleaner ...even the dipstick to be all year correct for the car....and the result is now a factory looking set up ...if someone didn't know these cars, I can convince them that darts came with 440s because of how original mine looks....just sayin
 
if you want WOW factor and sexiness in the car go with the 440

if you want practical and cheap to build and possibly a faster car go 360 (I hate to admit that, but out of experience I will say it)

after doing multiple Big block swaps myself ...the simplicity of a Small block is actually appealing ......they are so much easier to find parts for and cheaper and lighter weight ....plus a 360 has that 3.58 stroke ...that is not child's play ...I have worked with some mean 360s that sure had some boost.

I put a 360 in a B-body and it was an impressive performer. ......just sayin
 
Pretty good write up rani! Spud like he can have more fun with the pocket book if he stays small block
 
A big block will fit in a Dakota or Durango.


I ain't helpin am I ?
 
If you get a motor home 440 it's really not a bad idea to open them up to check it out. I have one and seen where some of my pistons had some edges chipped off so at the very least for me is a pistons will be replaced with new rings and bearings. Yes you will need a new oil pan like Rani said and a 727 from the motor home won't work (I am not sure on that).
Rani while it might be a idea to you to go ahead and drop the 440 in his car isn't really a good idea these Motor home have low mileage but he won't know what kind of abuse it has had. If it pulled a heavy car behind them or carried a lot of weight of top like they were designed to do.
metallicdart if you would like pictures let me know I will take some and send them to you. I may have a extra oil pan for you if you decide to go this route so I will need to check it and make sure if it work.
 
Now THAT is what I need. Big block, 4wd, 3rd row....

Gee, thanks for that idea.

Maybe I should just get the whole motorhome! haha
 
RaniDart70 said:
if your going to do this swap ...I would leave the 440 the way it is if it runs good and get in the car way before I would start taking the engine apart.

its going to cost and not be an easy task just to get in the car ....if you start taking the engine apart and buying pistons and engine parts then I hope you have some deep pockets.

even if it is a motor home engine, it will still scoot that little car like a rocket, I have a 72 dart that I big block swapped and its just a low compression 440 circa 1976 but with the street tires I have it is way more than enough boost on the street.

then once it is one piece and later after you have the car set-up for BB then its as easy pulling the engine doing your thing and bolting it back together.

you need to be aware, you need an oil pan ...that's not a huge deal but they are different ...you need a 187 or 699 pan

also what kind of swap kit are you going to use?

you can go cheap and go with a Schumacher swap kit ....but that's all it is ....CHEAP.

when I started out I used the Schumacher and it was cheap and served its purpose but if you really care about this car you definitely want a better set-up ...meaning a spool mount DC conversion K or ...I have seen you can weld ....you can probably make something that is a lot better than schumachers .....Shcumachers are for flippers.

I put a 383 in another dart and I used a former slant six K and made my own setup that is strong and easy to work with.

also exhaust is a huge problem, RB headers are high dollar ....your RV manifolds will most likely not work depending on the year ...you can either spend huge coin on headers or big money on HP manifolds ....or you can use log type manifolds which are cheap enough ....but not all of them are the same and it is real picky as to which ones will work.

if your going 4 speed, then your opening up a whole can of worms and probably another $1500 to start out.....if you go auto then you need floor shift, but the auto will be a lot easier .... a lot easier and cheaper ....and there is a chance that the 727 from the RV wont work .....some of those RVs had a freaky deaky tailshaft.....wont work.

plus ....im sure your aware that its not just a drag and drop from the motorhome to the car ....soooooo many things are different and if you do it right plan on some more coin ......when I did mine I changed the valve covers, intake, air cleaner ...even the dipstick to be all year correct for the car....and the result is now a factory looking set up ...if someone didn't know these cars, I can convince them that darts came with 440s because of how original mine looks....just sayin
Click to expand...


I would probably hold off on pistons unless I found some cheap, but its just my general curiosity and a little ocd that tells me I have to at least do head work and a cam swap lol. You are the same as me when it comes to wanting a factory look.

Most of the money from the magnum would probably go towards headers, just to get that out of the way. I still have a couple core sb 727, so as long as I had that bb case I could make that work. I always see decent used RPM intakes for sale, that would be at the top of my list. I am pretty sure I would have to find a different wp housing, oil pan, etc. But, thats the fun part, hunting!

As for the mount kit, I hadn't looked into that much yet. I have heard about converting a spool mount k-member, and that sounds like the cheapest route.

This car is basically being put together because 1. My son wants it 2.All the kids think its cooler than my Dart Sport 3. I want something to have fun with until I have the garage to build my Dart Sport. I want to take the fam to the dragstrip, just go cruising, etc. Some of my best memories as a kid are in old cars, I want my kids to experience that too. That being said, this will end up looking like a 70's street car, so if it doesn't all look original, its ok by me. I have a nice set of slots lined up, some old guages, I want it to have an old street racer vibe.

Thanks rani, you gave me some other things to think about, time to go ponder while I am putting together the magnum heads!
 
Old Tired Rebel said:
If you get a motor home 440 it's really not a bad idea to open them up to check it out. I have one and seen where some of my pistons had some edges chipped off so at the very least for me is a pistons will be replaced with new rings and bearings. Yes you will need a new oil pan like Rani said and a 727 from the motor home won't work (I am not sure on that).
Rani while it might be a idea to you to go ahead and drop the 440 in his car isn't really a good idea these Motor home have low mileage but he won't know what kind of abuse it has had. If it pulled a heavy car behind them or carried a lot of weight of top like they were designed to do.
metallicdart if you would like pictures let me know I will take some and send them to you. I may have a extra oil pan for you if you decide to go this route so I will need to check it and make sure if it work.
Click to expand...

Pics are always cool! If you have an oil pan, let me know, we can work something out.
 
metallidart said:
Pics are always cool! If you have an oil pan, let me know, we can work something out.
Click to expand...

I will get some pictures today and send them to you so you can see what I am talking about. I will have to clean the oil pan to get the numbers to see if it will fit.
 
metallidart said:
I. I am pretty sure I would have to find a different wp housing
Click to expand...

you can use the older style wp housing with the outlet on the driver side ....but just sayin ....I always use the later style one with the outlet on the passenger side on A-bodies.

it makes more sense to have the outlet on the passenger side because there is more room over there and you don't have the oil filter getting in the way (you will be happy about that when you change the oil :-? ) the other reason I like the pass. side outlet is because you can use a Small block radiator....which is cheaper and easier to work with.

on my 440 car I have the outlet on the pass. side and I went to auto zone and ordered a new radiator for a 73 duster 340....26" inch radiator .....bolts up in the A-body like it belongs there ....has outlet on pass. side so the lower hose is not crowded in there and the SB radiator does a great job with cooling, even in heavy Denver traffic....I drove my 72 with a 440 as my daily driver for almost 3 years and it went everywhere.

I don't have newer cars so my darts get driven, so they have to endure quite a bit. :D
 
RaniDart70 said:
you can use the older style wp housing with the outlet on the driver side ....but just sayin ....I always use the later style one with the outlet on the passenger side on A-bodies.

it makes more sense to have the outlet on the passenger side because there is more room over there and you don't have the oil filter getting in the way (you will be happy about that when you change the oil :-? ) the other reason I like the pass. side outlet is because you can use a Small block radiator....which is cheaper and easier to work with.

on my 440 car I have the outlet on the pass. side and I went to auto zone and ordered a new radiator for a 73 duster 340....26" inch radiator .....bolts up in the A-body like it belongs there ....has outlet on pass. side so the lower hose is not crowded in there and the SB radiator does a great job with cooling, even in heavy Denver traffic....I drove my 72 with a 440 as my daily driver for almost 3 years and it went everywhere.

I don't have newer cars so my darts get driven, so they have to endure quite a bit. :D
Click to expand...

One more thing I learned today! I had no idea about the different outlets. Pass side does make more sense, way easier to find a radiator, and I didn't even think about the oil filter. My first car was a 72 Dart, you can see it in my pic gallery. I had to use it as my daily right after my divorce, and it got old fast. Big cams make bolts come loose way too often! Heck, I ran my best times with it when I had to drive it every day, it was a 360, 1972 with factory flattops (only 71 and 72 360s got those), stock bottom end with mildly ported heads, Crane [email protected] cam, LD340, 750 dp, headers, 904 with a 3100 stall and 3.23s=13.60s @ 100, consistent! No sure grip gave me wonderful 2.0-2.1 60ft times. I probably wouldnt have a newer car if it werent for the kids.

I am beginning to think alot more research is in order. I know it cant be too difficult, but I dont want to spend money where I don't need to.
 
A little off topic, but speaking of engine swaps, I finally talked my dad into this one. Back in 99, I built a mild Olds 455, .030 9.5 forged pistons, Milodon pan/pump/pickup (olds oiling sucks), lunati 224/234 .496/.520, those were the first heads I ported. Just a Performer intake, 750 dp, exhaust manifolds, the cam idled stock but with alot more "thump". 16-17in of vacuum. Stock stall, and for gears....2.45. It ran 13.8@98 in my 84 Cutlass. I sold the car, friend wrecked it, dad bought it. Kid went sideways into a fire hydrant. Well, my dad has a 78 Chevy Van that he bought waaay back in 1990 or so, and it has been sitting for at least 10 years. He is letting me drop my old 455 in it!

Back to the regularly scheduled program....
 
can ya hear the 440 run?

if so i would hear it run and make sure its a good motor. then i would yank it put a new chain,oil pump and water pump in and drop it in the dart after some cleaning and painting. i think you would be surprised at how good it will run.

headers are the biggest issue and are not cheap.

as far as the wp outlet goes there are a ton of different ways to go about it. my first big block abody swap i used the alumn mp housing. it came out on the drivers side and my rad outlet was on the pass side. i just got some exhaust pipe bent up to go from the wp around the oil filter and to the rad. worked great.
 
Old Tired Rebel said:
Hate to tell you but they have kits to drop in a 5.0 in a Exploder.
Click to expand...

Mine is a 1997 Eddie Bauer, 87K miles, awd, and believe it or not, a factory 5.0! Black with tan leather, its super comfy, but no third row. I stuck flowmasters on it already lol, I couldnt resist. It gets about 21mpg on the highway, 14.5 or so in the city. Its got a few little bugs to fix, but it runs great and goes anywhere. I just hate the awd, can't have any fun.
 
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