Disc Brakes on Early A's - What solution did you choose and why?

-
Don't mess with Wilwood on pre73 cars. The kits will make your front end track wider and push your wheels towards the fender lip. Unless your buying new wheels which....good luck finding something decent and affordable in a 7" rim with 5"+ of back spacing. I'm in the middle of a catastrophe with Wilwood and Magnum Farce. Needless to say I am making hubs from scratch since Wilwood and Magnum Farce don't give a rats *** about disclaiming that the brake set up will cause issues on pre73 cars. Yea my bad for not knowing that 73-up do have wider tracks....never owned an old car newer than 70. I'll never get tired of ranting about those assholes. If you have a problem with them they will not step up to help....unless it's on the phone and they only have to spend 10 minutes with you. Try to use stock components if possible is my advise.
 
momoparman said:
Don't mess with Wilwood on pre73 cars. The kits will make your front end track wider and push your wheels towards the fender lip. Unless your buying new wheels which....good luck finding something decent and affordable in a 7" rim with 5"+ of back spacing. I'm in the middle of a catastrophe with Wilwood and Magnum Farce. Needless to say I am making hubs from scratch since Wilwood and Magnum Farce don't give a rats *** about disclaiming that the brake set up will cause issues on pre73 cars. Yea my bad for not knowing that 73-up do have wider tracks....never owned an old car newer than 70. I'll never get tired of ranting about those assholes. If you have a problem with them they will not step up to help....unless it's on the phone and they only have to spend 10 minutes with you. Try to use stock components if possible is my advise.
Click to expand...

Wow. That sucks. Always thought Wilwood people were standup guys as all the tv shows use their stuff.
 
man that ad is hard to freaking read..


2 uca new offset bushing,large balljoint, as long as the bushings are in opposite of the directions.. yes.. assuming he is selling the upper control arms plus the bushings/

2 lca new bushings,and shafts, don't really need these. your originals will work..


2 spindles as long as they are 73-up style

2, rotors,2 caliper brackets as long as they are a match for the spindles..


2 lower ball joints as long as they are 73-up style

Also have a new pitman arm,idler arm,and V8 center link FOR 63 TO 66 abody not needed..

you also need the disc brake proportioning valve, maybe the brake pedal push rod too..


.
 
Kmrumedy said:
Wow. That sucks. Always thought Wilwood people were standup guys as all the tv shows use their stuff.
Click to expand...

They use their stuff because it's free. Wilwood and all other mfg's get precious air time and commercial exposure for their donations.

The show creators would never say a bad word about free stuff.
 
66fs said:
That sounds quite reasonable. I've never driven a car with 9 inch drums, but 10 in drums seemed to stop fine to me, especially on an "A" body.
Click to expand...

3 words "scary brake fade"! they just dont work well after they are heated ie. going down a grade, or hauling 5 teenagers joyriding (oops, slip). They also dont work well wet, course no drums work well until they are wiped but sometimes you dont have time unless you ride them a little going through puddles.
 
both mopar systems work excellent when in good repair and properly serviced. the kelsey hayes are fixed caliper and bearing clearance is critical (.002)where the floating calipers are much more forgiving. ..the later disc rotors are thicker and more heat absorbing...don't go any larger than 1" on the master cylinder. i wouldn't even consider drums..
 
pishta said:
3 words "scary brake fade"! they just dont work well after they are heated ie. going down a grade, or hauling 5 teenagers joyriding (oops, slip). They also dont work well wet, course no drums work well until they are wiped but sometimes you dont have time unless you ride them a little going through puddles.
Click to expand...
Don't remember having any brake fade, of course the last time I had drum brakes they were riveted and the linings contained asbestos. I always ran the best linings I could get my hands on.
 
Disc set up and manual master cylinder from 73/76 A body. Add a proportioning valve to the rear line. I chose this because it all works together nicely and is as close to stock for the large bolt pattern as you can get. Replacement & wear parts are cheap and available everywhere, only obstacle is the steering knuckle, upper control arm, and caliper adapter. Some folks use the later model F and M body knuckle/adapters and report good results, despite changes in steering geometry, which are apparently slight enough not to matter. F & M parts are not hard to find & cheap. Some outfit called magnum force (I think) used to make tubular upper control arms as well.
 
Kmrumedy said:
I know this has been asked before but technology is always changing and improving. I may not be aware of the latest and greatest so I thought I would ask.

Doing a front disc brake upgrade this winter to my 64 Valiant. I keep flip flopping between Scarebird, Wilwood kit, 73-76 BBP conversion, etc.

For those of you that upgrade your brake system...

Which system did you choose? Why? Would you do it differently today?

I want to do this once! Front disc brakes only. Budget doesn't really matter. Good quality, great stopping and ease of installation are my criteria.

Opinions please. What's new out there? Thank you.
Click to expand...

I used the scarebird unit.
1. I didn't have to replace the upper control arms (new already and aligned with drums) so -70$ for that Or put on a new spindle and then have to align it anyway.after I had already put on offset moog bushings the first time.
2. easy to get parts almost anywhere or time. minimum wait about 12 hours if they don't have it local on parts. try getting SBC or wildwood t get you rotors to ya in 12 hours without paying a bundle to get em.

3. I didn't have to outlay cash up front. but could get the adapters, then parts as money became available

4. I did have to get me 5 on 4" hubs drilled to 5 on 4.5" at a machine shop cost 35.00 with 2 inch 1/2 screw in studs cost $21.00 Now I can go either way if I want to (not happening on the 5 on 4", but I could) now if a rotor goes bad I just replace it without any modification like a "normal" car

5. plus I could choose what type of master cylinder I wanted to use Small bore or larger bore for different pedal feel.


would I choose to go this way today?'
yes
for the sames reasons I posted.

I have done wildwood and others for different people and it's somtimes a crapshoot on the fitment of their parts and braking ability. I have always got good support for the companies though. on ever one We finally got the brakes working except 1.

I have friend that has a 65 plymouth BB b body that I had to replace the wildwood front discs on due to the fact that it just would not stop the car the same each time. wildwood replaced Every part for him and it was still not stopping consistently.

I ordered the scarebird disc adapters and used over the counter parts and haven't had a lick of problems on his car for over 5k of driving. (did not change OR adjust the master or the adjustable proportioning valve) But I should have gone to power disc for him since his legs are giving out now due to diabetes .

later model disc brakes from a donor mopar works too! but widen the track on 66 darts more than scarebirds setup using a 1/4 thicker rotor (take away the drum thickness ) I think it a small difference but don't remember how much further out the 73 n up widens the track
 
66Dvert said:
I used the scarebird unit.
1. I didn't have to replace the upper control arms (new already and aligned with drums) so -70$ for that Or put on a new spindle and then have to align it anyway.after I had already put on offset moog bushings the first time.
2. easy to get parts almost anywhere or time. minimum wait about 12 hours if they don't have it local on parts. try getting SBC or wildwood t get you rotors to ya in 12 hours without paying a bundle to get em.

3. I didn't have to outlay cash up front. but could get the adapters, then parts as money became available

4. I did have to get me 5 on 4" hubs drilled to 5 on 4.5" at a machine shop cost 35.00 with 2 inch 1/2 screw in studs cost $21.00 Now I can go either way if I want to (not happening on the 5 on 4", but I could) now if a rotor goes bad I just replace it without any modification like a "normal" car

5. plus I could choose what type of master cylinder I wanted to use Small bore or larger bore for different pedal feel.


would I choose to go this way today?'
yes
for the sames reasons I posted.

I have done wildwood and others for different people and it's somtimes a crapshoot on the fitment of their parts and braking ability. I have always got good support for the companies though. on ever one We finally got the brakes working except 1.

I have friend that has a 65 plymouth BB b body that I had to replace the wildwood front discs on due to the fact that it just would not stop the car the same each time. wildwood replaced Every part for him and it was still not stopping consistently.

I ordered the scarebird disc adapters and used over the counter parts and haven't had a lick of problems on his car for over 5k of driving. (did not change OR adjust the master or the adjustable proportioning valve) But I should have gone to power disc for him since his legs are giving out now due to diabetes .

later model disc brakes from a donor mopar works too! but widen the track on 66 darts more than scarebirds setup using a 1/4 thicker rotor (take away the drum thickness ) I think it a small difference but don't remember how much further out the 73 n up widens the track
Click to expand...

Really great info. Thank you for taking the time to write all that. I do appreciate it.
 
Jp5 said:
i did the scarebird conversion on my 65 valiant. SBP 14" steelies. the brackets came with a shopping list that i took to napa and got everything i needed. the swap was fairly easy after some adjustments, i've got good stopping power. all together i think it cost about 250$. had to press out my wheel studs, do some grinding on the calipers, and re-plium from my new master cylinder but in the end i've got much more effective brakes that the original drums.
Click to expand...

you do know that you can get the hubs redrilled for BBp once and never have to drill a rotor again for the SBp since the rotors for the scarebird are 5 on 4.5 . That's what I did on mine for ease of finding parts when I'm on the road.



View attachment DSCF0995.jpg
I like to Daily Drive em if I can and it isn't even MY car it's a friends:D. Damn good friend if I say so myself! Got over 4 k on the plymouth myself now and will have another 1k on it when It get's put up for the michigan winter in 2 weeks so I can head home finally. 65's the scarebird conversion and the 69 charger's conversion is next year(gonna drive the crap out of it when I get back up here) . Challenger is stock manual disc


I liked the not having to take it in for front end alignment too!(haven't learned how to do the front end alignment at home exactly right yet, but it WILL happen) That won't happen if you have to change spindles or upper control arms even doing the stock mopar to mopar donor switch.

Since I'm not carvin corners the 9" spindles and grade 8 replacement bolts will be sturdy enough. I have never broken a spindle but have broken a ball joint bolt (hit a curb on ice #$@% taking the car to the storage facility i day too late) that won't happen now since my cars are in florida
 
I did Viper calipers on Cordoba rotors using AR Engineering adapters when I did my big bolt pattern conversion so that I could mount the calipers in the rear and keep my existing sway bar setup without having interference problems.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0372 (Large).jpg
    39.6 KB · Views: 207
lilcuda said:
I did Viper calipers on Cordoba rotors using AR Engineering adapters when I did my big bolt pattern conversion so that I could mount the calipers in the rear and keep my existing sway bar setup without having interference problems.
Click to expand...

You can mount stock 73-up calipers to the rear also. I just did it. :)
 
On the Wilwood kits for the early A's, are you referring to the 9" spindle kit, or the 10" kit? I have the 9" kit for my 63 Valiant convertible. I do plan on new wheels anyways.
 
Huh. That Wilwood story would explain my clearance issues I had with the front wheels when I went to 7". Figured that was just the consequence of the narrow A body in general and not because the Wilwood set made it wider. During my restoration, I actually flared my front wheel well openings and ground the lip down for clearance, so I think I solved that issue.

In defense of Magnum Force, I was on the phone twice with them and they were nothing if not helpful. The second time I called them was because I cracked a bleeder valve and wanted to order a replacement. Even though it was clearly my screw up, they sent me a set of four new bleeders completely on their dime. I also have to say their master cylinder and adapter are excellent. Sorry they apparently haven't provided the same experience for everyone else here.

If I still don't have clearance, I'll definitely give the Scarebird kit a try. I loved how the Wilwoods looked through American Racing Vectors, but I'm switching to cop wheels so the visual aspect is pretty moot.
 
I went with 73-up calipers, spindles, and uca's with 11 3/4" cordoba rotors and an explorer 8.8 with discs on the rear. Because I'm a cheep ***.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0539.jpg
    55.1 KB · Views: 193
I did the Scarebird conversion on my 65 Val also. I did a complete write up on it as well. Pics, details, everything. Search for it on FABO.

Re: redrilling hubs for 4.5" I did not know about that. Do any of you guys have pics of your Early A hubs after they've been re-drilled? I would def like to do that. That is my only regret about the Scarebird conversion. Not having more wheel options because of the limited avail of SBP wheels.
 
subcom said:
I did the Scarebird conversion on my 65 Val also. I did a complete write up on it as well. Pics, details, everything. Search for it on FABO.

Re: redrilling hubs for 4.5" I did not know about that. Do any of you guys have pics of your Early A hubs after they've been re-drilled? I would def like to do that. That is my only regret about the Scarebird conversion. Not having more wheel options because of the limited avail of SBP wheels.
Click to expand...

Awesome. What section is the thread and I will link it here for myself and others.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top