Ditch power steering?

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Dragonbat13

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I am trying to get my AC compressor down out of the middle/front of the engine bay.

My car came with power steering, but I am not sure if its the best for what I want to do.

I want the car (74 Dart Sport) to be a no frills street brawler. No tubbed out slicks with skinnies on the front, no 20 low profile tires, just some 225/60s on cop wheels on all four corners. Engine is eventually gonna be an aluminum headed small block. Something around the 400-500 HP level. And a keisler five speed. Nothing unstreetable, nothing special, idle in traffic without overheating, built to rule the street kinda thing. Gotta be able to handle dirt roads and such. Just wanted to explain what kind of car.

So I want to get a good steering box from Firm Feel. But dont know if I should go with the power steering or manual. I figure with the 225 size tires and the future aluminum heads with their added weight loss, manual steering wont be bad. Its either ditch the power steering or ditch the AC, and AC is more important in south louisiana.

So how big of a bear is it with this type of car? Also, is the handling and performance of the car for better or worse with manual steering?

EDIT: I also want to use the AAR/TA fast ratio steering. I would think that would make the steering slightly harder. Of course parking is going to be a bear, but I can just park deep in the parking lots and walk if possible.

Thanks,
 
I like power, easier to avoid an accident or swerve out of a potential problem. Get the level three power box, and use the poly front end parts with good shocks and sway bar and it will handle like a new car
 
when we got my Duster going a couple years ago we swapped to manual steering to make room for future headers (and because it used to leak)- I hate it.
I feel a lot less confident about the situation EL5 brings up- having to make sudden, unexpected corrections- we're going to put a 416 in it before too long, and I hate the thought of it getting squirrelly and having to correct.
 
Manual steering isn't bad at all. also with manual steering if you get the car rolling at all it steers way easier. If you aren't moving at all its a bit harder. So if your trying to get in a parking spot or something just keep it rolling a bit and it will be way easier.

The only thing I don't like about the manual steering is its difficult to do any spirited driving on twisty roads. With the stock ratio you really have to turn the wheel A LOT when you get in a hard corner.

But if your not going to be doing any of that you'll love it.
 
I would stay with Power Steering myself. I run the same size tires at this point and while the stock power steering is very easy, I don't think it would be fun at all with manual steering. Both ratios are pretty slow, but the power is much better.

The real hot ticket is the borgenson delphi 800 box. I just bought one myself, but I won't have it in until when I change out the engines when the 340 gets back from MRL. Its kind of spendy but has a much faster ratio and should feel a lot better.

I do have to question why you would think that ditching the power steering would allow you to move the compressor...there just plain isn't room anywhere in the car to move it other than above the intake/timing cover. I would keep both A/C and PS if it was me.
 
Manual steering all the way!!! The feel of the road with manual steering is amazing. Only thing that sucks is the car does need to be moving in order to turn the steering wheel. Other than that It's....kooool.
 
You'll need to factor that T/A setup is a fast ratio pitman arm and it doesn't clear some headers. Unless you find a rare-ish factory fast ratio box or buy a flaming river box, you'll hate the slow ~24:1 ratio factory box over the faster 16:1 power box. Plus you'll need the expensive adapter to use the manual box on the power column. My dad has a Firm Feel Stage 1 on his 66 coronet with a 440 and its nice and a far cry over the stock power box. Check around there are is a lot of info int he different stages. Unless you drag race the factory manual box sucks on the street.
 
Okay this will help:
If you choose to go the route of MANUAL steering, get the Flaming River 16 to 1 chuck. This is THE ratio to get for manual steering if you want to have a modicum of steering response. It will be 3 1/2 turns lock to lock, similar to the standard power steering ratio of 15.7 to 1. As stated, once you are rolling along, the degree that you are turning the wheel is small and the effort to do so is as well. The STOCK manual steering ratios were 20 to 1 and 24 to 1. These are terribly slow. How is 5 turns lock to lock or 6 1/2 going to perform? Its like trying to steer the Titanic.
Regarding fast ratio gear, here is what i have on my 1970 Charger. Yeah, it is a B body but the parts and the principal is the same:
Firm Feel stage 3 power steering chuck
Fast ratio pitman and idler arms. MUST get both. This effectively changes the steering ratio from 15.7 to one down to 11.9 to 1. Steering response goes WAY up, but you will also need a bit more "muscle" to steer the car.
NEW or rebuilt power steering pump
Fresh bushings. poly or rubber. I have rubber LCA and Moog offset UCA bushings for increased caster. Poly strut rod bushings
Alignment: Camber .5 NEG. Caster: 4.5* POS and 1/8" toe IN.
The Charger has a 275-40-18 front tire and low speed steering isn't easy with the 14" steering wheel, but I aint no sissy boy!
The car cuts corners like a frugal housewife. Steering response is very sharp.
 
You could do the mod to the power steering pump and tailor it to how firm you want it....Sorry don't have the link, but I believe it was in Mopar Muscle at one time....
 
The article was in Mopar Action entitled "Pump it down".
 
SirDan said:
Manual steering isn't bad at all. also with manual steering if you get the car rolling at all it steers way easier. If you aren't moving at all its a bit harder. So if your trying to get in a parking spot or something just keep it rolling a bit and it will be way easier.

The only thing I don't like about the manual steering is its difficult to do any spirited driving on twisty roads. With the stock ratio you really have to turn the wheel A LOT when you get in a hard corner.

But if your not going to be doing any of that you'll love it.
Click to expand...

Firm Feel is repro'ing the fast-ratio MANUAL box now.
 
Just finishing up swapping power to manual on the Duster. Also pwr to man brakes with a new alluminum master. If you want a no frills street brawler then ditch the power stuff....I'd even ditch the A/C before anything! Just my opinion. That's the best way to get it out of the middle of your engine bay as you are wanting to! Lol. Again everyone has their own use for their car. No wrong way to use it. But for my Duster which is more like what you are describing (street brawler/cruiser) then power stuff and anything that creates parasitic drag on the engine is gone.
 
With young strong arms manual steering isn't so bad. A smaller diameter steering wheel isn't a good plan unless you have power steering.
 
why does the a/c in the stock location bother you so much?

what about converting over to the newer smaller compressor and keeping th epower steering??
 
EL5DEMON340 said:
I like power, easier to avoid an accident or swerve out of a potential problem. Get the level three power box, and use the poly front end parts with good shocks and sway bar and it will handle like a new car
Click to expand...



i love my power ff stage2 box
 
abodyjoe said:
why does the a/c in the stock location bother you so much?

what about converting over to the newer smaller compressor and keeping th epower steering??
Click to expand...

Well, thats not really the main reason to ditch the PS, I can live with it up top if necessary.

After reading all this, I think I will be keeping it. Parasitic drag is an issue with a car like this, but the car still has to have AC. Its just too hot, and if it doesnt have it the car will not get driven near as often.

As far as the PS, I would think the lack of it would just plain get old.
 
I see no real reason to have PS in an A-body performance build. I feel the same way about power brakes.

The cars just aren't heavy enough to justify the need vs. the loss of feedback given by manual systems.


My car is factory non-power disk, no PS but with AC. That's exactly how I would have ordered it.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
I see no real reason to have PS in an A-body performance build. I feel the same way about power brakes.

The cars just aren't heavy enough to justify the need vs. the loss of feedback given by manual systems.


My car is factory non-power disk, no PS but with AC. That's exactly how I would have ordered it.
Click to expand...

My friend's Feather Duster is exactly the same way: manual brakes, manual steering, and A/C. I just wish it had the fast-ratio steering!
 
Power everything on my build. Simply put I'm not gotta be working to drive/enjoy the car. Something to think about if you are going to drag race the thing, you can always remove the belt off the ps/ac, when done put the belt back on and drive home.
Or you can run a serp belt setup.
 
My car had PS when I bought it,swapped suspension.added manual steering,added wider front tires and now I can arm wrestle a bear..... I miss power steering and it's going back on.
 
I do not see the big deal, especially on a little A-body. Having driven a highway coach, a C-body, and an L7000 with manual steering, I truly don't see the point. I'd rather have manual steering on...well, pretty much anything.
 
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