DIY Alignment

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my68barracuda

my68barracuda

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Completed a front end alignment on the 68 Barracuda, The numbers that I got are
Toe 1/16 in each side
Camber + 1.031 Passenger side
Camber + .916 Driver side
Caster +2.525

For comparison, Barracuda alignment settings from a 1968 FSM
Toe 1/8
Camber Left +1/2
Camber Right +1/4
Caster Manual 0 to -1
Caster Power 1/4 to 1 1/4

I used the formulas for the calculations of caster and camber that are in this post.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=65513

The car has the 73 and up large ball joint upper control arms with the Moog off set bushings, stock lower arms, C body tie rod ends.
The upper control arm adjustors were set with the front bolt rotated all the way out from center and the rear adjustor bolt set all the way in.

I worked a while setting up a string frame to measure toe setting against. I just could never get comfortable that I was really setting up two parallel lines.
My extension tape had flex. I was working alone in the garage. So I made a hard frame of PVC pipe. And I like that. Easy to center around the car, move one side an inch in and the other side moves an inch out. I think it is really robust and will be easy to set up again. I glued one side on each 90 degree fitting and lightly sanded the non glued pipe to allow a full depth fit that can be pulled apart.
I also verified that the rear wheels on the car are square, with no toe. They are.

I also made a set of turn plates, used for checking caster. Basically two plates of steel with the bottom plate being a bit wider and marked with the 15 degree angle targets. These are not slide plates, so the car has to be rolled up on them, but that was not difficult to do. The problem that I found is the epoxy floor in my garage is so slick that the entire plate assembly would turn with the tire. I could probably fix that by gluing some rubber to the bottom side, or I may just let that go and make up a set of angle extensions to mark the 15 degree extensions. In the photo I did that with tape.

So I am satisfied with the garage alignment project, between the PVC pipe and the steel plates I spent a little less than $80.00 a shop alignment would cost at least that much. I plan to use this same set up to check and adjust the alignment on the D150 and then maybe again on the 68 B if I swap in aftermarket upper control arms.

A couple of days in the garage, a couple of days of fun.
 
my68barracuda said:
Completed a front end alignment on the 68 Barracuda, The numbers that I got are
Toe 1/16 in each side
Camber + 1.031 Passenger side
Camber + .916 Driver side
Caster +2.525

For comparison, Barracuda alignment settings from a 1968 FSM
Toe 1/8
Camber Left +1/2
Camber Right +1/4
Caster Manual 0 to -1
Caster Power 1/4 to 1 1/4

I used the formulas for the calculations of caster and camber that are in this post.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=65513

The car has the 73 and up large ball joint upper control arms with the Moog off set bushings, stock lower arms, C body tie rod ends.
The upper control arm adjustors were set with the front bolt rotated all the way out from center and the rear adjustor bolt set all the way in.

I worked a while setting up a string frame to measure toe setting against. I just could never get comfortable that I was really setting up two parallel lines.
My extension tape had flex. I was working alone in the garage. So I made a hard frame of PVC pipe. And I like that. Easy to center around the car, move one side an inch in and the other side moves an inch out. I think it is really robust and will be easy to set up again. I glued one side on each 90 degree fitting and lightly sanded the non glued pipe to allow a full depth fit that can be pulled apart.
I also verified that the rear wheels on the car are square, with no toe. They are.

I also made a set of turn plates, used for checking caster. Basically two plates of steel with the bottom plate being a bit wider and marked with the 15 degree angle targets. These are not slide plates, so the car has to be rolled up on them, but that was not difficult to do. The problem that I found is the epoxy floor in my garage is so slick that the entire plate assembly would turn with the tire. I could probably fix that by gluing some rubber to the bottom side, or I may just let that go and make up a set of angle extensions to mark the 15 degree extensions. In the photo I did that with tape.

So I am satisfied with the garage alignment project, between the PVC pipe and the steel plates I spent a little less than $80.00 a shop alignment would cost at least that much. I plan to use this same set up to check and adjust the alignment on the D150 and then maybe again on the 68 B if I swap in aftermarket upper control arms.

A couple of days in the garage, a couple of days of fun.
Click to expand...

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That's a kinda cool idea!
 
RustyRatRod said:
That's a kinda cool idea!
Click to expand...
It beats messing around with the strings. You end up with 4 pipes, that I will hang in a couple of J hooks on a wall till I need them again. And the corners are firm enough to check them with a large carpenters square. So I know the two perimeter sides are parallel.
 
famous bob said:
I wondering about 4 exact spacers to put the pipes up against the rear wheels , seems it would be solid and closer/easier to measure the front wheels . Would still have to be spot on perfect on the end pipe lengths tho .
Like it better than strings !
Click to expand...

that would work, but if you are going to pilot off the rear wheels you should still first verify that the rear end is square. A small deflection at the rear will be quite large over the 10 feet or so to the front.
 
I'm assuming you got the PVC on either side dead center of the axles and spindles?
 
RustyRatRod said:
I'm assuming you got the PVC on either side dead center of the axles and spindles?
Click to expand...

Being a plumber for over 50 yrs , I haven`t seen very many pvc pipes that were perfectly straight , or didn`t take slightly bend/set after removing from a shipping bundle . Cant even lay them on the ground w/o some distortion , flexable in anything under 3'' , or schedule 80 too , even schedule 80 wont stay straight ...
think I`d have more faith in angle iron .
 
75slant6 said:
Did you bolt the plates together? Or what is that in the center?
Click to expand...
Yes, there is a short bolt to maintain the position of the plates together. These are turn plates, not slide plates. When positioning the car on this style of plate one needs to roll the car onto the plate.
 
famous bob said:
Being a plumber for over 50 yrs , I haven`t seen very many pvc pipes that were perfectly straight , or didn`t take slightly bend/set after removing from a shipping bundle . Cant even lay them on the ground w/o some distortion , flexable in anything under 3'' , or schedule 80 too , even schedule 80 wont stay straight ...
think I`d have more faith in angle iron .
Click to expand...
I agree there is flexibility in the pvc pipes in a free state. When on the level floor in my garage I can align the ends of the matched pairs and they are an equal length. And are straight to the floor.
Look close at the photo and you will see an adjustable threaded support leg just forward of the coupler. That is needed to eliminate down flex.
I checked the up and down level of the pvc frame and it is level. I also used the same 4 foot level to look horizontal bends, there are none.
I also used a 3 foot carpenters square to verify the corners are at 90 degrees, they are.
The seven foot sections at the ends of the car are very rigid. The long sections on the sides did require a vertical support.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I'm assuming you got the PVC on either side dead center of the axles and spindles?
Click to expand...
Yes, the pvc is equal distance from the rear wheel centers and equal distance from the front wheel centers.
That makes a rectangle around the car to check and adjust tire toe to.
 
my68barracuda said:
Yes, there is a short bolt to maintain the position of the plates together. These are turn plates, not slide plates. When positioning the car on this style of plate one needs to roll the car onto the plate.
Click to expand...

a tip on rolling the car onto the plates, after a few attempts and having one tire or the other not centered on a plate. I was trying to set each plate an equal distance away from each tire then roll the car forward. I set each plate and pushed it firm against the tire tread. I then pushed the car back a half a foot to get room for a rolling start, then pushed the car forward and up on the plates. That centered the car to the plates pretty well.
 
This is awesome. Can you explain how to set camber? I have been reading but can't seem to figure it out.

I edited the word camber, thats what I meant to originally write.
 
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DentalDart said:
This is awesome. Can you explain how to set caster? I have been reading but can't seem to figure it out.
Click to expand...
the camber gauge also gives you the caster (as a separate reading) when you turn the wheels.
 
kursplat said:
the camber gauge also gives you the caster (as a separate reading) when you turn the wheels.
Click to expand...

I'm just trying to figure out how to adjust it... I dont have any guages, just trying to get a rough guesstimate. I currently have lots of positive camber especially on my front passenger tire.

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autoxcuda.jpg
 
DentalDart said:
This is awesome. Can you explain how to set caster? I have been reading but can't seem to figure it out.
Click to expand...
Caster is not measured directly. You measure caster by actually measuring camber with the wheels turned in, then out, then subtracting the readings. Depending on how far (in degrees) you turned the wheels you multiply that difference by a factor, and the result is caster.

Caster gauges do the same thing. My old Ammco gauge is actually a sort of circular slide rule in caster mode. This assumes you are using a simple "tilt" gauge. Different alignment caster/ camber gauges use somewhat different procedures

Here

compute caster from camber - Google Search


"To calculate caster angle.
Turn wheel 20 deg ea way, multiply difference by 1.5
Turn wheel 15 deg, ea way, multiply by 2
Turn wheel 10 deg ea way, multiply by 3
If turn in reading is larger neg, the caster is positive."
 
As you turn the cams you are adjusting the top ball joint forwards and backwards, as well as in and out from the side of the car. So if you move the ball joint to the rear, you increase caster, that is, you lay the spindle down towards the rear of the car.

If you are using radials, you do NOT want to use factory settings. Bias tires have the tops of the tires tipped out, for radial tires you want them tipped inwards.

This is the "skosh" chart from the All-Par site

image-jpeg.jpg
 
DentalDart said:
This is awesome. Can you explain how to set camber? I have been reading but can't seem to figure it out.

I edited the word camber, thats what I meant to originally write.
Click to expand...
In the initial post there is a link to a post at .org in the .org post is a link to a motoiq article that has a photo of a person using a level and a ruler to get the numbers to calculate camber. A few paragraphs down the motoiq writer shows how to use a digital angle finder to get to the camber angle directly.
Basically camber is the angle that the outside-top of the tire is tipped. 0 camber means the side of tire-wheel is perfectly straight up and down. +1 means the top out side edge of the tire is tipped out 1 degree. -1 means the top out side edge of the tire is tipped in 1 degree.
Camber is adjusted by changing the rotational position eccentrics in the bushings in the upper control arm.
With the front end of the car up on jack stands and one front tire off and out of the way, loosen the front and rear lock bolt that locks the eccentrics in the bushings of the upper control arm.
Move the rear eccentric through its full motion, and observe how the front disk / drum changes position. Then do the same with the front eccentric and observe the disk / drum.
You should see the disk / drum move slightly front to rear that is caster, and also tip in and out, that is camber.
If you do not yet have the tools to measure camber and castor, scribe a chalk or other mark on each eccentric prior to moving it so you can return it to the current location.
 
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my68barracuda said:
In the initial post there is a link to a post at .org in the .org post is a link to a motoiq article that has a photo of a person using a level and a ruler to get the numbers to calculate camber. A few paragraphs down the motoiq writer shows how to use a digital angle finder to get to the camber angle directly.
Basically camber is the angle that the outside-top of the tire is tipped. 0 camber means the side of tire-wheel is perfectly straight up and down. +1 means the top out side edge of the tire is tipped out 1 degree. -1 means the top out side edge of the tire is tipped in 1 degree.
Camber is adjusted by changing the rotational position eccentrics in the bushings in the upper control arm.
With the front end of the car up on jack stands and one front tire off and out of the way, loosen the front and rear lock bolt that locks the eccentrics in the bushings of the upper control arm.
Move the rear eccentric through its full motion, and observe how the front disk / drum changes position. Then do the same with the front eccentric and observe the disk / drum.
You should see the disk / drum move slightly front to rear that is caster, and also tip in and out, that is camber.
If you do not yet have the tools to measure camber and castor, scribe a chalk or other mark on each eccentric prior to moving it so you can return it to the current location.
Click to expand...

I just had a possible brain storm....fart or whatever. Stick a pair of these under the front tires.

1000 Lb. Capacity Vehicle Dollies 2 Pc

You could do the alignment without ever having to jack it up. The only thing they would affect is the caster angle. It would exaggerate the caster just a little since you're raising the front end, but not the rear. So your caster would "appear" a little higher than it really is. I bet it would work.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I just had a possible brain storm....fart or whatever. Stick a pair of these under the front tires.

1000 Lb. Capacity Vehicle Dollies 2 Pc

You could do the alignment without ever having to jack it up. The only thing they would affect is the caster angle. It would exaggerate the caster just a little since you're raising the front end, but not the rear. So your caster would "appear" a little higher than it really is. I bet it would work.
Click to expand...
That is an interesting possibility. Let’s see what folks think about that.
Concerning the additional height, one could always raise the raise the rear of the car and set it on blocks that match the height.
 
my68barracuda said:
That is an interesting possibility. Let’s see what folks think about that.
Concerning the additional height, one could always raise the raise the rear of the car and set it on blocks that match the height.
Click to expand...

You could. I think it'd work.....that is as long as the dolly wheels were greased well in operating good.
 
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An update- sorry I just saw these replies. As always, I'm very appreciative of all of the help and helping me understand. Also I'm sorry for thread jacking the op.

It wasn't making sense in my head when reading over everything. I'm more of a see/do, or what you could call - a visual learner.

I jacked the car up and loosened the cam bolt, then turned them and magically everything clicked. I put the rear one all the way "in" towards the frame and the front is all the way "out" towards the outer body of the car.

The car drive 100x better. I also measured and set my tie rods to 13 inches. The steering wheel is slightly off center but much better than before.

I know I dont have all the tools do do an alignment, I just wanted to fix it a little until I can get it into a shop to have a proper alignment done.

Now to rebleed my brakes, and drive it some more. For some reason my brakes have gone soft from all the jacking up and lowering the car. That little brake line gremlin... oh also to fix the way to soft rear springs on the cheap... as I keep spending all my money on guns, ammo and a puppy...

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RustyRatRod said:
I just had a possible brain storm....fart or whatever. Stick a pair of these under the front tires.

1000 Lb. Capacity Vehicle Dollies 2 Pc

You could do the alignment without ever having to jack it up. The only thing they would affect is the caster angle. It would exaggerate the caster just a little since you're raising the front end, but not the rear. So your caster would "appear" a little higher than it really is. I bet it would work.
Click to expand...
 
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