Don’t Convert to R134a

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There will never be an environmentally safe refrigerant in my opinion. R134 was said to be safe which it wasn't. Maybe safer.
Ammonia like in a hockey rink can kill you quick. Thats why there are so many safety precautions. Works fantastic though.
 
If memory serves, Dupont owned R12. They knew the patent was running out after which time others could make and sell R12. They developed R134 as a replacement with a new window where they are the only supplier, then provided all the R12 data they had been sitting on to the gov (who don't know better than the mfg and just react) so nobody else would get to make and sell R12. It's a cycle.

When banned the price of r12 peaked as most everyone was converting to r134, then the remaining supply had few buyers so the price came back down. Timing is everything.
 
In the commercial world R-22 is now gold. No longer produced but still legal to sell. Now they convert those to another refrigerant.
 
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I generally try not to buy anything if the materials advertising it are misleading or confusing.

Y'all bitching about the cost of refrigerant like you're doing this stuff for a living. How many cans are you guys going through in a year, anyways?
 
Don't let the re***ds tell you the old A/C systems can't be converted to R134a when rebuilding them, but if you have R12 cans and a good system, use it.
 
Winchester_Black said:
Hey guys, I bought a ‘72 Dart Custom a few months back with factory AC. The compressor was disconnected due to a severed wire, but I tapped the low side fill valve and some pressure came out so I ran a 12v jumper and the RV2 kicked right on.

Anyway, I used 1 can of Arctic Air System Conditioner/ leak sealant and 2 cans of their EnvoroSafe R12 refrigerant.. charged it to about 80lbs under load and replaced the damaged wiring.
AC blows Ice Cold.. smaller vents, but way colder than my modern Challenger R/T.
Don’t convert to R134a! This Envirosafe R12 kit with all three cans and a filler gauge was only $68 on Amazon.
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Didn’t know about that stuff, thanks
 
I tried envirosafe in my Dakota.

I got one can in and was monitoring the low side pressure and temp at the vents.

Just as it started to cool down inside.

braaaap, whooosh...

It expelled all that out the high side port.

Never seen anything like it.
What could cause the schrader valve to open from the internal side?
How did it know to expel only the envirosafe?
Back to where it was before I started.
Put in a can on 134 and temp came down to what's "normal" for that truck.

Proof Chryslers have "personalities" ?
 
MV8 said:
If memory serves, Dupont owned R12. They knew the patent was running out
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"Factless conspiracy theories that refuse to die for a thousand, Alex!"

US patents last 20 years. The patent on R12 would have expired in 1948.

So yeah, your memory was serving you there, but what it was serving you was less like new oats and more like used ones.
 
slantsixdan said:
There are dumber and less-dumb ways to do halfaѕѕed charge-ups of MVAC systems. Using highly flammable compounds in a system not designed or intended to contain them is the (much) dumber way, unless you wanna die in a fire.

Using other-than-appropriate nonflammable—or at least less flammable—compounds is the less-dumb way: Part I, Part II. (dude's entire channel is a time-suck if you like watching and learning from people who know WTF they're talking about/doing as they refurbish old obsolete machinery)

Remember, if there is anything other than a legitimate MVAC refrigerant (R12 or R134a) in your system, you are 100% on your own for repairs; no shop you would want anywhere near your car will touch a system with anything else in it, or if they will, it'll come with a hefty surcharge.
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Implying all my cars aren't already nightmares no shop would touch
 
Winchester_Black said:
Hey guys, I bought a ‘72 Dart Custom a few months back with factory AC. The compressor was disconnected due to a severed wire, but I tapped the low side fill valve and some pressure came out so I ran a 12v jumper and the RV2 kicked right on.

Anyway, I used 1 can of Arctic Air System Conditioner/ leak sealant and 2 cans of their EnvoroSafe R12 refrigerant.. charged it to about 80lbs under load and replaced the damaged wiring.
AC blows Ice Cold.. smaller vents, but way colder than my modern Challenger R/T.
Don’t convert to R134a! This Envirosafe R12 kit with all three cans and a filler gauge was only $68 on Amazon.
Click to expand...
Just to let people know, this Envirosafe stuff is extremely flammable. When you hear a boom and your car catches fire, you might win an award.
 
I've used Duracool for 3 decades. It is an HC refrigerant, before Envirosafe. Switched to it in my 1996 and 2002 when replacing their compressors. People who claim "explosive" know nothing about combustion. All refrigerant leaks burn since the oil spray is flammable, and new ones produce toxic gases like phosgene or HF acid. A Duracool can is only 6 oz and feels empty, and only 2 cans fills most cars. Carrying a newspaper in the cabin should be more fearful. No fire reported after decades of millions of cars using it. HC has been used in home refrigerators in Europe for decades, and now in U.S. ones.
 
I recently replaced the R134 in my 71 Charger with R12 using the original compressor. The difference was 15 degrees colder air coming out the vents!

Due to the fact that A-bodies have those centered under-the-dash AC vents, I feel that R12 is best for it. Those centrally located vents take a while to make the car comfortable on a really hot day (90+ degrees). Any slacking on the AC's part can really make it hard to cool. I drove a 72 Duster for 26 years, and the Texas summer heat really could do a number on the interior of that car. I remember when I first got window tint installed in the 90's... wow that was a huge help! The AC always blew nice and cold, but it sure would have made a huge difference if Big Mama Mopar would have integrated the vents higher up and spread out on the dash like in a 70's B-body.

Currently, I am gathering parts to make a relay system for the 3 fan speeds... as the original fan switches are poorly designed and this will alleviate most of the current going thru the switch.
 
MV8 said:
Don't smoke or have an open flame working on it. It isn't R12. It is propane and butane so actually less "safe" than r12. Effective refrigerant though.
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Supposedly it has an ignition inhibitor to prevent ignition in a vehicle when the evaporator develops a leak. You are correct in stating it is NOT R12. Any shop doing AC repairs will be reluctant to work on it if they are not sure what is the refrigerant. They are likely going to put it in a scrap bottle for unknown disposal, and charge extra. Yes it is a cost to convert to R134a, but the R134a ports will be installed along with required seals and anything else required. A R134a label should cover the original R12 label so the refrigerant is known.
Now there is a newer refrigerant out (R1234) that is supposedly more environmentally friendly, but it is expensive. In Alberta, Canada, I have been told $1,000CDN for a 10#? bottle for a commercial shop. Sounds like R134a is being phased out.
 
Winchester_Black said:
Im responding to this post because it’s the most inflammatory (lol)


I just have one question. Do you ever plan to buy a refrigerator made after 2022? Or eat in restaurant with a walk in cooler?
I’m only asking because r600 and r290 are propane and butane based refrigerants.. (everything is moving to this for environmental reasons)
and these are used in applications where open flame burners and vats of boiling oil are commonly placed in close proximity to them. Food for thought from a dumb guy..
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They do contain ignition suppressants or flame retardant compounds. Even commercial refrigerators do not contain high volumes of refrigerant. A leak that could cause an increase in a fire would involve a large line rupture, but result in a quick flash and be done.
With the flame retardant in the automotive recharge refrigerant and the low volume installed, the concern over fire is negligeble. My concern would be service while on a holiday when say the compressor fails. Shops may refuse non automotive refrigerant repairs, as it contaminates the recycle bottle. If they do work on it, they may charge a healthy surcharge.
 
RustyRatRod said:
As have I. Including carbon tetrachloride for several years. I'm surprised my hands haven't rotted off.
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If I remember correctly, carbon tetrachloride was used for fire extinguishers decades ago. My neighbor bought one at an antique shop about 5 years ago. A sealed glass ball mostly full on liquid. The idea was to toss it at the base of the fire to break the glass and then get out real fast as the gas given off is highly toxic.
 
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