Early A, 9”……if it was yours, take $ out of the equation, whats the best solution for brakes

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jimjankins

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65 convertible valiant thats really clean but was sitting forever. 6cyl auto power brakes 9” drums……needs brakes…..even if i wanted to keep to stock brakes/wheels/tires….. 13”s are pretty much non existent and i know what 10” drums are like, 9’s cant be better…..in a perfect world what is the best solution (front,rear,m/c/booster)? Im willing to switch bolt patterns and go with 15” wheels (not a fan of larger wheels on early a’s) if $ was taken out of the equation…….whats the ideal setup? originality is not a concern, ideally parts that are easy to find. How say you?

IMG_5711.jpeg
 
73 and up front disk brake swap with rear disk brake kit

don't know about your area but 14 are still available

sub frame connecters and a 408 !!
 
Dr Diff 11.75” kit. I think he calls it stage 2? If you’re OK with going with 15 inch wheels, it’s the best brake system for the money you could spend more but it’s not necessary.
 
73 and up front disk brake swap
Done on my 63. Still can use 14'' wheels if you want. Also installed a big bolt pattern 7 1/4 rear from a 75 Duster.
They can be had cheap. Gets you larger 2 1/2''x10'' rear drums.

Threequarter_front.jpg
 
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Agree with the above- CALL Doctor Diff. He has most everything you'll need, by calling him he can walk you through the part selection process and current availability. Very friendly, helpful and knowledgeable.
Just a rough list:
10.95" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 1) -will accept 14" wheels
or
Mopar 11.75" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 2) - only $25 more, but requires 15" wheels or larger
Mopar 1 Piece Proportioning Valve
Mopar Front Brake Line Selector for A/B/E Body
Bendix Style Dual Diaphragm Booster for Mopars (order version for later A body)

And for the rear, your best bet would be to get a '73-'76 A body 7 1/4" differential, which gives you 10" drums and 4.5" bolt circle; and does not require different shock plates/U bolts, parking brake cables, or any driveshaft shortening or adapter U joints to fit- which can be an issue since your '65 uses a ball & trunnion front joint and many driveshaft shops don't like dealing with those. It just bolts in. Sure Grip a plus if you can find one.
Second choice is (depending on availability):
Mopar Axle Pkg 7 1/4" A-Body 5X4 1/2" Bolt Pattern (pair)
Next choice would be an 8 1/4 rear from a '73-'76 A body, which gives you bigger brakes and 4.5" bolt circle, but requires different shock plates, U bolts, and driveshaft shortening.
Last would be an 8 3/4 A body rear, which requires the same as an 8 1/4, plus big bolt axles and brakes...
Or a Ford 8.8 is a possibility- 8.8 swap
Just a few ideas to get your creative juices flowing.
 
Find a rusted out '73-6 A-body V8 parts car and swap everything over. Just a driveshaft shortening is the only extra expense.
 
73~76 brakes upfront, manual master if you're agreeable to it, if not a 73~76 booster set up.

out back is where you're gonna spend the real money. you're not making gobs of power but 7.25 parts are swiftly drying up and even in low power applications the gears are a ticking time bomb.

the good news is that you don't need discs unless you want them.

8.25 would be a bolt in if you can find one.
8.75 is also a bolt in, and if $$ doesn't matter then this is the obvious answer.

from there ford 8.8 out of an early ranger will fit, not break the bank, and takes limited work to get it in there. fairly easy to find. (edit: with careful selection of rims, the ranger rear is a little wider and the slab sides of the val are a limiting factor)

8.8 out of an explorer if you want discs.

9" ford if you want to spec one out from speedway and just press the easy button.

14's will fit any of those set ups (save for maybe the explorer discs)
15's look great on the early bodies and open the door to more rim and tire choices.

i'd also recommend upgrading the rest while everything is apart: t-bars, rear springs, shocks.

i know that you said money is out of the equation, but if you were to boogie down do you have a ballpark of what your budget would be?
 
73 and up front disk brake swap with rear disk brake kit

don't know about your area but 14 are still available

sub frame connecters and a 408 !!
I'd skip the rear disc brakes. A disc/drum setup is more than adequate, simple and easy to find. Rear discs are great for looks and ease of service but unless you're properly proportioned to the rest of the system, they are dead weight.
The reason new cars have 4 wheel discs is partly weight savings and for the improved ability to integrate a functional anti-lock system.
A light car like these Valiants will see no benefit from rear discs unless it is a road race inspired build.
 
If you want some comparison photos, here is my 66 with three different sets of wheels/tires.

First up is the 13" red (?) rims that were on it when it came home with me. Tires were very small, like 185's or so.

halfafish.jpg


Next is the tan rims, 14" with 205's on the front and 245's on the rear.

DSCN5272.JPG



Last is the black rims, 15" and what is currently on the car. 215/65 front, 245/60 on the back.

P7140794.JPG


The 13's were just WAY too small, in my opinion. The 14's were much better, but I really like the way the 15's fill in the wheel wells. They will be staying on the car.

These are all SBP so I have a set of Kelsey Hayes front discs standing by with an 8.75, same bolt pattern.

If you're looking for the most flexibility, I'd go with the majority opinions above, 73+ front discs and an 8.25. Both are economical and easy upgrades.
 
If my vote counts Zach, I like the 15" wheels painted body color.
steelies and dog dish, classy and timeless. never out of style. contrasting color to the body is always a nice touch.

i'm not a huge fan of rally wheels, but i always thought they looked great on the early vals.
 
It is personal taste, that is for sure. I do like the steelies and hubcaps on early to mid 60s cars but not so much for the say...69 and later cars that had more exterior trim and garnish.
I think the rallye and road wheel are excellent on just about anything from the mid 60s and later.
 
Agreed. When I get into the refurbish on this one the black wheels will get body color. One of these days. :rolleyes:
 
73~76 brakes upfront, manual master if you're agreeable to it, if not a 73~76 booster set up.

out back is where you're gonna spend the real money. you're not making gobs of power but 7.25 parts are swiftly drying up and even in low power applications the gears are a ticking time bomb.

the good news is that you don't need discs unless you want them.

8.25 would be a bolt in if you can find one.
8.75 is also a bolt in, and if $$ doesn't matter then this is the obvious answer.

from there ford 8.8 out of an early ranger will fit, not break the bank, and takes limited work to get it in there. fairly easy to find. (edit: with careful selection of rims, the ranger rear is a little wider and the slab sides of the val are a limiting factor)

8.8 out of an explorer if you want discs.

9" ford if you want to spec one out from speedway and just press the easy button.

14's will fit any of those set ups (save for maybe the explorer discs)
15's look great on the early bodies and open the door to more rim and tire choices.

i'd also recommend upgrading the rest while everything is apart: t-bars, rear springs, shocks.

i know that you said money is out of the equation, but if you were to boogie down do you have a ballpark of what your budget would be?
Really i plan on keeping the 6 and having a cruiser that actually stops….years ago i had a 69 dart that i did the 11 3/4” i think from a cordoba if i remember right, manual m/c setup from the disc-o-tech article and they worked well, i went with 15” cragars sbp and already had the 10” rear brakes… …now with this car it’s how to go about the whole thing/package with what wheels to use, and how to address the rear brakes too, ……..meanwhile i dont have tons of spare time to be hunting down parts in yards, even though im not worried about the cost, its mostly because im not looking to do anything crazy and i know the parts aren’t crazy $, its just getting the right stuff
 
I'm a fan of the KH 4-pot system, plus you get to keep your small bolt pattern.
But for your application, I'd probably leave the nines on there and just upgrade to 14" wheels.
But then, I'm 70, recently retired, and time is something I got lots of, lol..
 
Really i plan on keeping the 6 and having a cruiser that actually stops….years ago i had a 69 dart that i did the 11 3/4” i think from a cordoba if i remember right, manual m/c setup from the disc-o-tech article and they worked well, i went with 15” cragars sbp and already had the 10” rear brakes… …now with this car it’s how to go about the whole thing/package with what wheels to use, and how to address the rear brakes too, ……..meanwhile i dont have tons of spare time to be hunting down parts in yards, even though im not worried about the cost, its mostly because im not looking to do anything crazy and i know the parts aren’t crazy $, its just getting the right stuff
given what you're stated goals are: keeping it /6 and a cruiser, and having something that stops are relatively attainable goals.

the yards are pretty barren these days, but there's still some bits around. while the aftermarket has stepped up with some stuff that previously was unavailable, prices have gone up tremendously from "years ago" on both new and used parts.

i'd upgrade to big bolt pattern all around and here's how i'd play it if i were in your shoes:
>73~76 discs up front
this would entail upper control arm, spindle, lower ball joint, caliper adapter, caliper, splash shield, and hoses. if your upper control arms have been recently rebuilt or you feel the bushings and ball joints are in good condition, and you are okay with reusing them, then keep those in place and use a sleeve to adapt the small ball joint to the spindle. the later big ball joint arm is available new, either aftermarket stamped or several versions of tubular at different price points depending on what they offer. or rebuild a set of 73~76 arms.

keep the lower control arms as is, again if you feel the bushings are in good nick let 'em ride. or rebuild. keep everything else stock, rebuild as necessary.

aftermarket sway bar up front, upgrade to standard V8 torsion bars at a minimum or big block, but i wouldn't go much bigger than that.

out back is where you'll need to make a harder decision, and making the choice now between having discs or drums can save you fair amount of faffing about down the line if you start drum and then upgrade to disc.

it also boils down to whether you care or not who the manufacturer of the rear end is. if having a ford differential under your mopar is something that makes your stomach turn, that's fine and understandable. just understand that you're going to open your wallet that much more for a mopar rear end.

of course, the option is still that you could pluck a 7.25 from the yard rebuild the brakes and throw it in and run it till it pukes.

no matter the rear end, i'd upgrade the rear springs. nothing wild, just some nice V8 units. and snap fresh shocks on all the way around if it needs.

with wheels, the front is easy: stock 14" steel wheels will fit. because it's big bolt pattern, nearly any aftermarket rim will as well. out back, the choice of the rear end (and if disc brake) may dictate your rim size. although, 15" should clear most anything brakes wise, special attention needs to be paid on specs due to different rear end width and the limiting factor of the wheel well.

a lot of this boils down to how much you want to upgrade (drums v disc), build in future proofing (parts availability), peripheral costs (rims, upgrading components), the big time v money costs such as: buying UCA's outright v rebuilding or spec'ing out a rear end v hunting one down online or in the junkyard.

the parts are out there, some of it is easy to come by and some not so much. making a battle plan and deciding where your compromises are from the start helps you not waste time, energy or money by getting the right parts the first time.

all this is to say, let us know how we can help.

thanks for coming to my ted talk.
 
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