early A body engine swap

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the 2266 mts are a strong 13/16" tall & the 2710 is 1&3/4" tall both unmounted. I will see if I can find my measured dimention for the OE v8 insulators #2465508 (bricks) but iirc the OE mts are slightly taller than the 2710. EDIT OE bricks 1&9/16" tall, slightly less than the 2710.
 
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halfafish said:
You might want to do some homework on the engine mounts if you are doing a 318 now and a 340 later. I believe they are different from a 273/318 and 340/360, so the 340 would need another set.
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Here's what the 273/318 mounts look like...

mounts.jpg
 
Rapid Robert said:
the 2266 mts are a strong 13/16" tall & the 2710 is 1&3/4" tall both unmounted. I will see if I can find my measured dimention for the OE v8 insulators #2465508 (bricks) but iirc the OE mts are slightly taller than the 2710. EDIT OE bricks 1&9/16" tall, slightly less than the 2710.
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Thanks for the info! Does anyone know how tall the 2265 mounts are (new, uncompressed)?
 
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GunslingerFIN said:
Well, just like everything else with 60-year-old heavily modified car, this won't be as simple and straight forward as I had hoped it to be. The car has Hooker headers where on drivers side three of the tubes go over and outside of the frame rail, and then curl back under the rail. There's is maybe 1/4" room for the engine to go higher. I don't even know if I can change the 2265 mounts without removing the headers from the engine before, and with new and intact 2265 mounts I'm worried that the pipes will start hitting the frame.
View attachment 1716061705

View attachment 1716061704
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Ouch !!
 
I received the Anchor 2710 mounts, and the positive news is that they still do have the locking tabs also embedded in the rubber. Looks like the advertisement pictures are not correct.
"Bad" news is that they are both thick and sturdy. I really afraid there is zero change for me to use these with the current headers. I need to order the 2265 mounts as back up before trying anything with these.
anchor_2710.jpg
 
GunslingerFIN said:
Another thing I noticed is that it looks the design of the 2710 mounts have changed. I found some old forum posts and pictures about Anchor 2710 mounts, and they seem to have the locking tabs also encased with the rubber:
View attachment 1716059885
But every picture of 2710 mounts I found for sale, have the tabs separated:
View attachment 1716059891
That old design might be really good for my application, but I just simply cannot find them anywhere.
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Remember the "TABS" are for only the lift on the torque and those mounts appear to give you a 1/4 inch lift, so not to break the mount. I never used these, but looking at your photos, it appears you may be able to face the tabs towards the motor or front and not face the headers, rear.
 
Swinger 340 said:
Remember the "TABS" are for only the lift on the torque and those mounts appear to give you a 1/4 inch lift, so not to break the mount. I never used these, but looking at your photos, it appears you may be able to face the tabs towards the motor or front and not face the headers, rear.
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Does the orientation of the mount affect the height where the engine will sit? Please check my previous photo: the issue I fear is that if the engine goes any higher, the header which curls under the frame rail, starts hitting the frame rail.
 
GunslingerFIN said:
Does the orientation of the mount affect the height where the engine will sit? Please check my previous photo: the issue I fear is that if the engine goes any higher, the header which curls under the frame rail, starts hitting the frame rail.
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You know best, what you need by being there. As I stated earlier, you can add a chain to the engine tab and K-member, as long as the height of the mount works for you. I thought you were saying the mount was in the way of the headers. There are other adjustments you can make, as a hammer on the headers or a notch on the frame. Again, you will know best. I had to cut a corner off a large washer on my van when I installed headers on my van. Good Luck!!!!!
 
GunslingerFIN said:
I received the Anchor 2710 mounts, and the positive news is that they still do have the locking tabs also embedded in the rubber. Looks like the advertisement pictures are not correct.
"Bad" news is that they are both thick and sturdy. I really afraid there is zero change for me to use these with the current headers. I need to order the 2265 mounts as back up before trying anything with these.
View attachment 1716067120
Click to expand...
Hello GunslingerFIN...I'll give you the long version on my current issue and see if you can help! I finished my engine and tranny swap and upon starting the 318 for the first time i saw that it was smoking a bit ....SO , I couldn't have that ! I commenced to tearing it down to the bone. While cleaning the carbon from the tops of the pistons i saw what you see in the picture and was immediately thrilled to the bone ! It's an old build but it is .040 over and cammed a bit so my old 'Cuda should be a fun little ride ! Here is my problem...i've never seen this type of valve stem seals so i'm not sure which ones go where ! The smaller umbrellas are ribbed on the inside and fit tightly on the guide nipple. They allow the stem to slide up and down without moving out of place so i would think they are intake seals. Maybe FELPRO gave me 2 options for exhaust. Any ideas ?

IMG_20230323_215229848.jpg


IMG_20230323_214034269.jpg


IMG_20230323_214044629.jpg
 
The one on the left is the exhaust seal, probably Viton
The one on the middle is the positive intake seal, probably Viton
The one on the right was used on both before the above were used. Use the first two.
 
Yes, they are giving you an option. Umbrella style seals control the amount of oil the valve guide receives
by deflecting oil splash away from the guide. The little cone does the
same thing by preventing oil from flowing down the valve stem
into the guide and are usually used on exhaust valves, (sometimes exhaust seals are just square o-rings) The middle seal is a semi positive intake seal. The two end style seals are really not so much "seals" as they are deflectors. The positive seals usually have a material like teflon that contacts the valve and have a tight fit to the guide, often with a metal spring to retain tension on both the valve and guide.
 
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GunslingerFIN, The thicker mount is correct for the 64-66 a-body if you use the thinner mount, it can change the driveline angel depending on other modifications performed to install drivetrain and can cause header contact to frame. Now it's time to look at other areas, trans mount looks different between 64-66 to 67-72 I'm not sure on height difference, it could be causing close header to frame contact and your picture looks like it's closer to middle of the trans area where the tube run under the frame. Is the trans crossmember rear suspension in stock locations? It's time to look at other items and let us know what you find.
 
moparlvr166 said:
GunslingerFIN, The thicker mount is correct for the 64-66 a-body if you use the thinner mount, it can change the driveline angel depending on other modifications performed to install drivetrain and can cause header contact to frame. Now it's time to look at other areas, trans mount looks different between 64-66 to 67-72 I'm not sure on height difference, it could be causing close header to frame contact and your picture looks like it's closer to middle of the trans area where the tube run under the frame. Is the trans crossmember rear suspension in stock locations? It's time to look at other items and let us know what you find.
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I'll take a look at the trans crossmember and rear suspensions, and take some photos, next time I visit the car. It's on garage on other side of town during winter time so it might take some time, but I'll get back at you!
 
grimreaper said:
Yes, they are giving you an option. Umbrella style seals control the amount of oil the valve guide receives
by deflecting oil splash away from the guide. The little cone does the
same thing by preventing oil from flowing down the valve stem
into the guide and are usually used on exhaust valves, (sometimes exhaust seals are just square o-rings) The middle seal is a semi positive intake seal. The two end style seals are really not so much "seals" as they are deflectors. The positive seals usually have a material like teflon that contacts the valve and have a tight fit to the guide, often with a metal spring to retain tension on both the valve and guide.
Click to expand...
Thanks guys I appreciate the insight... I'm also in need of some Chrome for this car and wondered if any of you might know where I could locate some.
If so I will take some pics and make a list.
The rear glass is actually perfect on this car, not fogged up in the corners or anything. But the windshield is broken and I will have to locate a windshield somewhere. Wish I could post a video because I took it down the road today just a short ways.
On the way back ... From rolling about 5 mph... I romped on it and went through three years in about 40 ft ! The smoke was terrible but the adrenaline was great !
 
Getting back to the motor mount brackets, the 340/360 passenger side of the block has two mounting holes in front, one in the rear. 273/318 is the opposite.

For a long time, Ma Mopar made separate brackets for 340/360 on the one hand, and 273/318 on the other. Much later on (don't remember what year), they made passenger side brackets with two holes front and two holes rear, so the bracket could be used with either setup. Not sure how they dealt with the driver's side bracket, as the two block ears are not the same distance apart.

For early A's, to properly bolt up a 340/360, the passenger side needs an ear welded to the front part of the bracket, then a hole drilled, as described in post ##26 and 27. Here's mine:

1679877045920.png


Now, an unmodified 273 passenger bracket will bolt up to a 340/360 if you're comfortable using only two bolts instead of three. It's been done.

For the driver's side, a 340/360 will need a spacer (which can be as simple as a few washers) on the rear bolt. Mine:

1679877198936.png


Finally, I don't know the part numbers, but the early A motor mount biscuits are thicker than later ones. I used this to my advantage when installing TTI headers. The driver's side torsion bar passes between two of the tubes. My torsion bar fit between the two tubes, but it was so close I figured it would probably rattle. So I used the later, thinner, biscuit on the driver's side, which dropped the motor on that side just enough to provide adequate clearance between the torsion bar and the two header tubes. I did have to drill one hole in the bracket for the later biscuit's locating bump, as shown in the Jim Bowen link (post #43).

And, of course, if you run a 318, none of this will be necessary, as it can use the early A 273 brackets as is.
 
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Swinger 340 said:
Almost correct on the motor mounts. Only the driver side needs changing, the passenger side should be the same.
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When I said motor mounts, I meant as the set with brackets, not the mount itself. The mounts 67 and up to the barrow mounts are the same on the "A" bodies, just the end brackets are different on the 273 and 318, compared to the 340 and 360.
 
halfafish said:
You might want to do some homework on the engine mounts if you are doing a 318 now and a 340 later. I believe they are different from a 273/318 and 340/360, so the 340 would need another set.
Click to expand...
What he needs is a set of V8 engine mounts from a 64-66 A body, then he will need to modify the drivers side with a small triangle piece and he should be all set.

F5273551-3D6F-4030-99FA-4B42F9A2AEE8.png
 
cosgig said:
What he needs is a set of V8 engine mounts from a 64-66 A body, then he will need to modify the drivers side with a small triangle piece and he should be all set.

View attachment 1716069228
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It's not the driver's side, but the passenger side that needs the triangular piece added. Also, and I know that drawing comes straight from the Mopar Performance manual, but that diagram is wrong for an early A, as I found out when I tried to duplicate it on my 65 Barracuda. Their diagram would be correct (I believe) for a 67 and later mount.
 
Both transmission and rear axle have been changed by the previous owner, so I don't have any facts about the installation available. I suspect that at least the axle is in stock location since car seems to have stock rear suspension, but naturally angle of the axle could be different than it should be. Can you tell anything about the trans crossmember / mount from the pictures?
 
GunslingerFIN said:
Both transmission and rear axle have been changed by the previous owner, so I don't have any facts about the installation available. I suspect that at least the axle is in stock location since car seems to have stock rear suspension, but naturally angle of the axle could be different than it should be. Can you tell anything about the trans crossmember / mount from the pictures?
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Third picture down
t3-jpg.jpg


looks to me like the mount - i.e., the rubber biscuit - might be broken. Not sure. Try putting a jack under the rear of the trans and raising it up, see if the rubber biscuit is separated.

To answer your question, that does appear to be the original trans crossmember and mount.

Exhaust routing is pretty funky. There's room for the tailpipes to be routed over the axle, except your rear end has been braced, so I don't know if they'll clear the braces.
 
Question then remains, if the transmission crossmember and mount are both correct, why is the engine sitting too high? Issue being, that the header tubes hit the frame rail from below. If the trans mount is broken (which is 100% possible looking at the state of the engine mounts :lol: ), wouldn't replacing it push the transmission also higher, making the header clearance issue even worse?
 
GunslingerFIN said:
Question then remains, if the transmission crossmember and mount are both correct, why is the engine sitting too high? Issue being, that the header tubes hit the frame rail from below. If the trans mount is broken (which is 100% possible looking at the state of the engine mounts :lol: ), wouldn't replacing it push the transmission also higher, making the header clearance issue even worse?
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Well, looking back at your post #35, it appears that you have the wrong motor mount brackets. Will you have other problems (like header clearance) if the correct 64-66 V8 brackets drop the motor down? Don't know.
 
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