Edelbrock Heads for 318

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Look, maybe its like 1800 lbs, that might get it that fast. Why don't you dyno the motor and see how much HP there is. Thats the right way. I was just thinking if the car is 3000-3500 lbs that means that 318 is putting out about 550 HP. I remember hot rod or car craft took a 1970 Caddy that ran in the 17's and started lighting it up. They got in to run in the low 13's once it was under 2000 lbs. They never touch the motor. So sure, high 10's from a 318 can be done if the car is super light. Which I said right at first. I am sure the tires and wheels must be very light as well, there are "tricks" to make a car fast, thats why dnyo's are the best. I also hear that not all dnyo's are right on, so this is going to go no where. Its just funny that nobody else in the world can push a "normal" car in to the high 10's with a 318 but he can. Think about it, does that make any sense to you. Seems like who ever could would be very well know. I also can remember back in the 70's how we were going to have 80 mpg cars by now. I am still waiting for that to happen.
 
Just for the heck of it I look up the new corvette Z06 with that 500HP 7 liter motor at 3200lbs and Moter Trend ran a 11.70 @125mph in the quarter mile! And we all know how these new car mag. like to make the automakers happy so they keep advisting. Now if these new car mags. can not get even a 500 HP 7 liter light Corvette in to the low 11's, let alone high 10's how the heck is a 5.2 liter car going in the high 10's.

The new Viper with a 8.3 liter motor making 510 HP and 3400lbs ran 12.10 @121. All these cars run 93 octane too.

I guess if these new cars had that "super 318" they would have been much faster.

This is such BS, I think if some here really really believe that high 10's story they need "help" from a doctor if you know what I mean.

I don't know why I am even wasting my time on this. This is like trying to explain to some people there are no UFO's or ghost's. No matter what anybody say's some will still believe in them I guess.
 
But in the way I glad I got in to this. Justs makes me think that what ever you guys who are in on that 10 second story say about anything else not to give it much thought. Next I am going to read about turning water in to gasoilne, yeah some people claimed that too. Later, this is now a waste of time and I am going to move on. I be sure to keep a look out for a big story about this on the speed channel, till then good bye.
 
So dodge freak,you don,t want to put up 2-300 dollars to win some 60,000$ dollars worth of cars and trucks,one word says it all,chicken.Remeber in 1976 when Bob Glidden won the Molson grandnational race with a 340 powered pro stock arrow,and ran the car in the sevens,I know,I can,t reffer to such things because you where not born yet,but it happen.Do you remember a person in top alcohol dragster by the name of santos who ran a small block powered dragster and kicked everyone,s *** across the country,that never happen either.Just finished watching a IHRA event where the runner up in the event was a full bodied small block that ran 7.65,just figured that one out,its hollywood magic playing with the film.Go and look at the catagories in NHRA for stock and super stock for 318,340,360 dusters and dart and look at the national index,then subtract a second or more as the top mopar racers are under the index by 1.25 seconds,so you stand there and say it can,t be done,as that is your right and these cars are loaded with rules up your ying yang.So when we ran our super stock 65 chevelle 327 that weighted 3600 and would run under the index any where in the country by .750 seconds and this is 30 years ago,and the parts and technical components have not improved at all over the years,and the national event trophies we have,its for sure its just a fluke that it happen and if a car is properly set up and tuned to the max that a 3000lbs car can run low 11 second or high tens.With your type of thinking,you will never get any where if you do not think that some thing can,t be done,so sit there and spin your wheels,when you have spent ten grand on your motor and its still not running good enough,remember this post and do some deep thinking.Ask the land speed record holder if the mark they set is a smoke and mirrors trick if they did not believe,Mrmopartech
 
Sorry 321Scamp,
For hijacking your thread, and this thing getting way out of hand.


DodgeFreak,
I've been running this fast for the last few years, and can see how you have doubt's, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't forsee this going anywhere and consider this over, IMO.


These threads are to be informative and fun, not name calling and harsh comments. Everyone has there own way of doing things and get different results. I'm as guilty of comments as are others, so for this to all, I will keep all non tech comments to PM's.
 
Staying on the technical side of things...using 120mph (10.90s) in a 3000 lbs (estimated average A body) car, you need roughly 400hp to the tires (475ish at the crank). I say roughly because the more scienced out the entire car is, the less power is required. A mentor of mine ran 11.15 (4 or 5 NHRA Stock Eliminator national records during those years) with a 9.5:1 stock intake, stock carb, stock lift hydraulic cam, and manual trans. That was a 351 Cleveland hydraulic cam engine in a 1971 Mustang..Not a lightweight with the 6 pt steel cage. His last inspected legal winning engine made 485hp at the crank. That 475 is well within reach of a 323 inch engine on pump gas and a hydraulic cam. Especially if the car is geared to take advantage of that power band...
If the rough ratio is 2 hp per cfm for an "average", all it takes is 225-235cfm. While IMO a stretch, I dont see why a set of well worked 302s couldnt flow that. And again, with the more scienced out package, even less flow would be needed.
 
"Sorry for Hijacking your Thread" But I Just Gotta Say I Dont Post here Very Much As Im on the Other side of the World! But I Do Read Heaps & I Find it Very Informative,I Think you can Learn Heaps from the Likes of RumbleFish 360 & BJR,Moper & Many Others on Here as what they say is From Experiance & Some Really Great Advice..
"Being this thread is about the 318 Im Doing one at the Moment & Plan on Running it in a 64 AP5 Safari Wagon which is Basically the same as your Plymouth Valiant A Bodies over there."The Plan is to build a Good Toy for the Weekends to Play around with I Would like to Go around corners at the same time Go Down the Strip Hopfully do a low 13 to High 12s its Going to be a Manual & Currently Runs on a 26" Tire Would Like to Go to those TorqueThrust 2s in 17"s.
"Plans are 318 with a Solid Grind as Ive already Got 273 Adjustbles Ive Looked at the Compcams XS268S But after reading a LOT of Posts Ive Decided to Go Smaller Like a XE262H or 265DEH But I Dont think these are Solids & Do They do a Solid in the 262s Or is There others that you Guys can Point Me to?? Intake?? What Type I Already have a Holley Street Dominator which seems to be a Copy of the 273 Original But its Alloy & a 4 Barrel,Have Looked at RPM Airgap?What do you Think??Heads was Going to go 360 as I Have Both 587/915s But Have Canned this In Favour of 318 Heads(675/920s) Maybe fitted with 1.88 int,1.60 Ex & Fully Ported or would 1.94 int Work Better?? But Cant Do 302 Heads as they Hard to Get Here in NZ So will Use what I Got,Also If I Do Go for a Cam I Will Go for the Complete Lifter & Spring/Pushrod setup, But this Worries Me If I Increase Valve Size Wont that effect the Springs that will come with a Cam Kit??Also Rear Gears are a Choice of Many Ratios as I Have many But I Was Thinking 3.45/3.50 or 3.70/3.89s what do you think?? Also what Carb maybe just a 600cfm Vac Sec??Also what Ingnition & Dizzy?? :scratch:
 
I would get a solid XE cam and the #'s are a bit different, it maybe a XE264S or something of the like.
As for the intake the street dom. is a very good intake and was the preferred one to use for racing because of it's HP and Torque producing abilities. There isn't much gain in another intake so save your money.
As for the heads stay with the 1.78 intake valves as they are 30-40 HP and torque better than the 1.88 and the port can't use this large of a valve efficiently. But do use the 1.60 exhaust valve as it's 40 cfm better without port work. Make the intake port opening to a 360 gasket size and being that your useing the older heads then you'll have to weld up the roof by the pushrod on top of the intake port down to the pushrod hole opening. The 302 heads have enough material so this doesn't have to be done.
Being that you want to run street type gears then keep the duration lower so it will make more torque where you need it, look at the RPM range of the cam and pick the cam this way as to where your driving is going to be mostly.
As for the carb I would use a 750 vaccum sec. as the mileage won't be any worse but when done right can work like a double pumper when needed.
As for Ign. systems this is just your choosing they can all work well. At a cost stand point the Mopar is the cheapest, and MSD the most expensive, so this is totally a preference of yours.
 
Here's what I'd try...
sell the street dominator, pick up an Edelbrock Performer 318/360..the small (318) port version of the Performer. I'd run a Thunder AVS p/n 1806. 650 cfm, electric choke. For heads, if you have the early 318 heads, the small open chamber ones...Run them. I have a set of mildly ported ones on a 360 of mine. I added the 1.88 intakes and 1.60 exhausts with hardened seats. The smaller chamber will help add compression. In the US, these heads were IIRC '68-'71, but I dont know the casting number. I wouldnt enlarge to 340/360 size, I just gasket match them and the intake, and smooth out the bowls and transition areas. For a cam, sticking with your "solid" thinking, the Comp Magnum 270S is a mild single pattern solid that would work well. I think the 268S will be a little big if you run power brakes, and need pump gas compression. My first choice would be the XE262H, and a true static compression of around 9.5:1. For ignition, the MP vaccum advance distributor and either an FBO or Std Ignition module would be fine...Or the MP running a MSD 6AL.
 
"Yet again Great Advice from Both" Both sorta Differ But your Comments on Cam Selection Seem to be What Im Thinking as Well, Yes I Do Think the XS268S is a Little on the Large Size & I Did Think the 262 would Be Better But I Will Look into those Others,Also BJR Your Comments on the Heads is Great But I Dont think I Want to Go That Far Maybe Just a Clean up & Bowl job Otherwise I Will have to Port the Street Dominator as will to the 360 size Opening & I Dont Really want to do That as its Narrow Runners Help with Low RPM Airspeed But Your Comments on the 1.78 Int Valve is What Interested me?? But I Think I Did Read in a Mopar Circle Track Book Somthing Similar & I Do Like the Way the 318 Exhaust Port Dosn't Drop away down in the Floor Like the 360s Do..But they Do have that Dreaded Water Jacket Hump in the Roof which if ya Careful can Minimize But your gotta Be Careful There(Woops Ive Stuck Water"Just Kidding)
"Anyway I Do Understand the 1.60 Ex Valve Idea as .1 They are Generally the Valves That Sink with Age .2 I Think From Memory the Exhaust Never did Flow as Good as the Intakes Did & This Would Be a Big Help So This Advice I Will Do,"Now Is it True That Wedge Heads Perform Better with a Flat Valve Design(Nail Head) Over a Tulip Type Valve & What do you Recommend??
"Also Yes I Will Run with the Street Dominator as Parts in NZ Arnt Cheap! & 750 CFM it is Then."Moper Your Comments On Running a Set of Teen Heads On a 360 Amazed Me But you Did Increase Valve Sizing I Think I Understand your Thinking There!! also your Ideas for Ignition & Cam Selection are Very similar to other posts Ive Read Great!! BTW Im Not Running a Booster & I Can Go Steeper with the Rear Gears as Ive Also Got 4.11s & the Block Was originally Bored with TorquePlates .040 Thou for Cast Slugs, Should I Change to KBs Hyperuetectics or Forged??But Forged would Be Pricy as Thats an Odd Size A??Cheers Guys" :thumbup:
 
The intake valve that works the best is the shape of the stock straight stem 84-90 with a backcut, this valve isn't a nail head or a tulip, it is how ever half way in between. I have flowed nail head and tulip valves and undercut ones and I thought that if I could get a valve half way in between that it should and could flow the best. As for the exhaust the valve that works the best here is the early 68-72 valve as it has a slight undercut and not a full undercut as the new valves have, and is also a semi tulip shaped valve and is worth 30+ cfm's on just a valve change in lifts above .500 even at 1.50 and not 1.6 but is better regardless of valve size that is used. The thing that hurts the 1.88 valve is that it's a full tulip shaped valve and reduces the port volume and port flow at low and mid lifts, most people don't run lifts high enough to get any value out of this set up, let alone the port is too small even for the most ported out port in a 318 head. The best that I have ever pulled out of a 318 head with a 1.88 valve is 218 cfm's where as the 1.78 has been as high as 232 cfm's and 220 cfm's at .400. The problem with the 1.88 valve head is that the port isn't as efficent and by useing the 1.78 valve made the port efficent and the velocity was way better and worth 20-30 HP stock and 50+ when ported. IMO
 
I suppose I should have said, I dont use stock valves. I use stainless performance valves that are generally more of a nailhead than tulip. They are all back cut, and swirl polished..Which really looks cool, even if it doesnt do much...lol. I dont think a port volume increase on the order of 1-1.5ccs will make any difference when the increase is part of the valve head. But that's just conjecture on my part. I didnt flow test that 360 project, so I cant post numbers on it either. I'd be really interested to see some detailed pictures posted of a 318 sized port that flows 232cfms at 28" thru a 1.78 valve. Especially that 220cfm at .400 lift. Most figures I've seen and heard (only a few guys really bother with these heads) even with iron head specialists cant get much near 200 cfm at max lift. I'm not saying it cant be done. But I know sure I cant do it..lol. Keep in mind, these heads factory form and valve job are generally around 140cfm on a generous bench. I think more guys would use them it was acheivable to get 64% better flow thru the same size valve. That's just more conjecture on my part.
 
Wow, I have a head ache after reading all of this.

Nothing wrong with the 318, My first mopar had one and was one of the best runing cars I ever had, Not the faster but just ran great. If Ford guys can run fast with there 302s wich have a smaller stroke and terrible heads, no reason you can make a good running 318.
 
"BJR Some Great Advice Again I Hear What Your saying about the 1.88 int Valve I Have Compared with the Early 68/71 Teen Valve & They are more of a Tulip.
Moper I can Understand you use of the Stainless Performance Valve for this Very Reason,& Yes I Had a Laugh too about the Swirl Polish Jobbies as I To think this Really is just a Good Look thing than a Power Inhancer.
Do you think If I Was to step up this Motor Later on to a Hotter Set up Would Now Be a Good Time to Fit Stainless Valves & Go to 1.88int/1.60ex or just Leave & Maybe just do the Exhausts First as they seem to be the Ones that Have Sunken with age??
Cuda 66 On this Forum Has one Hell of Hot Setup for a Teen to Run 11.6s But By the Look of the Combo Post I Amazed that it still Runs a 1.58ex He Has Increased the Intakes Though to 1.88s But still to run a Racer Brown cam ST 21 specs @ 50-224/ 520 full lift Thats a Lot of Lift for a Small Ex Valve,Mind You the Rest of the Combo Suits His Idea of What he Wanted to Do...
 
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