electronic ignition swap on a 64 Valiant..........CANT GET TO RUN.....HELP

-
Jr340Duster

Jr340Duster

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Location
Falling Waters WV 25419
I done a engine swap on a 64 Plymouth Valiant. took out a 6 cylinder, push button automatic, and put in a 318, 4 speed. I also replaced the points distributer with a mopar performace electronic ignition. I can not get the car to fire. I've tried all different ways to wire this system. The instructions tell me to run the blue wire to the ballast resistor, then to the START lug on the starter relay. When I do this, the car will start, but as soon as I let go of the key, it shuts off., but if I run a wire from the battery, to a toggle switch, then to the blue wire coming from the ballast resistor, I can start it, then when it starts, I turn the toggle switch off, and it keeps running. Only thing, after it warms up, it don't run right, and is hard to start. When its cold, it starts up easy. Is there some kind of difference in the early (63-66) starter relays, compared to the ones made in the 70's? I've replaced the distributer 2 times, replaced the ballast resister 2 times, replaced the starter relay, replaced the orange computer box. Only things I haven't changed, is the black box voltage regulater, and the ignition switch. I've been working on this car for MONTHS! I want to drive it. PLEASE HELP
I've included the diagram of how I have it wired, also a couple pics of the parts I've replaced
theres only 4 wires, 2 wires on the plug, plugs to the distributer, the blak wire goes to the negative side of the coil, and the blue wire goes to the ballast resisitor, then to the START lug on the starter relay.
I wish I could post my phone number, so I could get some help from here.

20160708_210742.jpg


20160708_210748.jpg


20160709_235908.jpg


20160709_235938.jpg


20160709_235957.jpg


20150921_190001.jpg
 
First get rid of those damned Skochlocks. I MEAN IT.

Now, the wiring in the diagram IS EXACTLY THE SAME as "factory" for points except for these changes.......

(That is, the ballast wiring to the coil is not changed)

1.....The proper wire from the ECU goes to the coil, replacing the distributor wire (BLACK)

2.....The proper wire from the ECU goes to the "key" side of the ballast. (BLUE)

3...Make absolutely certain the ECU is grounded.

That's IT!! That is the only electrical change I would NOT hook anything to the start relay
 
If I use any of the factory wires, I can't get any fire.I have All the factory wires unhooked, it's the only way I can get any fire. I've hooked plenty of these up over the years, but on later models, like 1971. I would be nice if you were near by, I had anot her certified Mopar mechanic today come to look at it when I talk to him on the phone and told him what it was doing he told me over the phone he knew exactly what it was after he got here and I showed him what it was doing he told me he's never seen anything like it before
 
Get rid of those scotchlocks. Don't put those on anything, they are crap. If you have more throw them away or give them to someone you don't like.
 
Jr340Duster said:
If I use any of the factory wires, I can't get any fire.I have All the factory wires unhooked, it's the only way I can get any fire. I've hooked plenty of these up over the years, but on later models, like 1971. I would be nice if you were near by, I had anot her certified Mopar mechanic today come to look at it when I talk to him on the phone and told him what it was doing he told me over the phone he knew exactly what it was after he got here and I showed him what it was doing he told me he's never seen anything like it before
Click to expand...


It's certainly difficult to know what you might have done. The "one big thing" that gets a lot of people is the ballast connections, "let's go back" to factory. Refer to your shop manual.

One side of the ballast gets power from the key "in run" and also branches off to feed the voltage regulator

The other side of the ballast goes to coil + and also "receives" the brown wire coming out of the bulkhead which is the bypass circuit.

The "run" side GOES COLD during cranking. The ONLY ignition power source in cranking is the BROWN which electrically goes to coil +

On your electronic box, this brown (during cranking) feeds BACKWARDS through the coil resistor, and out to the box, thus powering the box during cranking.

CHECK your voltages

With key "in run" you should have:

1....Same as battery on "key" side of ballast, IE 12.6 or whatever

2....Something from 7--10 volts on the coil+ side of the ballast.

3....Coil NEG should be quite low, 1 or 2 volts.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Voltages in "crank" (starting)

Coil plus should be very close to same as battery, IE if battery pulls down to 11V in crank, the coil + should be very close to this

The "key" side of the ballast in "crank" will be LOWER, perhaps 10V.

These systems "generally" have troubles with distributor reluctor gap so check that, and "work" the distributor connector in / out several times to scrub terminals clean and check for "tightness." There is a tiny bit of current in the distributor pickup, they are very prone to troubles.
 
Starter relay: What they might be referring to is the very late ones also used in Jeeps. You do NOT have one of those. You should NOT tap into the "start" (yellow) at the start relay. The late / Jeep ones had a separate bypass contact which the old ones don't have. In all the cars I've worked on, the bypass circuit (brown wire to coil +) is right in the ignition switch.

This is what I call a "Jeep" relay

Electrically (not appearance) it is exactly like yours except it has an extra contact and terminal used for the "bypass" circuit.

109944.jpg


HERE is what happens in an older Mopar if you use the yellow "start" wire for the bypass circuit:

It will work just "fine" except when the transmission is in park or neutral. That will ground one end of the start relay, causing a LOAD on the ignition circuit. This causes power from the ballast resistor to backfeed /bleed down through the starter relay to ground. In some cases, it might even be enough to engage the starter!!
 
are you using a dual field alternator and an electronic VR? I like this one as it shows the whole enchilada...
DTElectronicIgnitionConversion_zps4c5fcec3.jpg
 
^^Here again everything there is "factory" except the added ignition. Blue wire to the "key" side of ballast, and black to coil NEG

Top of the resistor is "key" side "run" voltage.

Bottom of resistor goes off to "brown" bypass circuit
 
As Del suggests, the problem is in the run circuit where the ignition "on" feeds the ballast to the coil, in "run". I think I see something in the next to last picture at bulkhead. The black wire ( tapped from blue) seems to go down on way to ballast, and at point where the choke cable is it seems to shrink. It could be an illusion, but it looks like what happens for a short.

A very simple test: place test light at bottom terminal at ballast, other lead to ground, turn ignition to run, it should light. If not check at the blue wire at bulhead, if none there, first place to check would be at bulkhead connection, next ignition switch.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top