Engine of barn find-steps to evaluate/save

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packrat56

packrat56

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Need assistance with a motor. Not sure if it is worth trying to salvage and run.

Starting a restoration on a 61 Valiant with a slant six. It's been sitting outside for a few decades and I’ve no idea, of course, what it was parked.

Soaked the cylinders and got the engine to rotate.

It turns clockwise (looking from the front) but only rotates the other way a little without stopping. Not sure why??

I gather dropping the oil pan is more of an ordeal than many old engines. It had oil, and no water in it.
The water pump seems to spin, the alternator sounds bad, but does turn.

Need some next steps….

Thanks
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I had pulled the starter before turning over by hand, so I bench tested.. The starter spins, but the gears resting position is where you see in the photo..and that can't be right. Is this a known issue and can be convinced to reset? Or is this in need of a rebuild? I see them online at $300... Yikes....
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It's probably just sticky. The flywheel kicks it back in when the engine starts anyway.
 
packrat56 said:
I had pulled the starter before turning over by hand, so I bench tested.. The starter spins, but the gears resting position is where you see in the photo..and that can't be right.
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Yes, it's normal. This isn't a solenoid-shift starter drive, it is a Bendix Folo-Thru starter drive. The drive pinion you see here rides on a helix. Inertia flings it forward up the helix when you activate the motor, and it latches into the forward position. It stays in that forward position until the engine starts and overdrives the pinion fast enough for its flyweights to fly outward by centrifugal force, unlocking the pinion from its forward position and driving the pinion back down the helix.

packrat56 said:
I see them online at $300
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Maybe or maybe not; there is a lot of bad info on starters for the '60-'61 cars, which are not interchangeable with the '62-up starters. Easy to spend money and wind up with something that won't fit/work.

But I sort of wonder what the point is with the present activities; are you just sort of playing with this engine for fun? It's going to need a full teardown, cleanup, and rebuild.
 
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It only turns partially around even without the starter off.... Its something inside, I can hear a clunk when it stops (going counter clockwise) Smooth and quiet, and all the way around clockwise though.
 
I had hoped it was old and tired, but still a runner. That is why I was playing around. Your right, prolly needs going through. I pulled it out of the weeds, seems like its worth restoring but its been a long time since I did an engine rebuild, I'm more of a body/fender/paint guy.
 
packrat56 said:
I had hoped it was old and tired, but still a runner. That is why I was playing around. Your right, prolly needs going through. I pulled it out of the weeds, seems like its worth restoring but its been a long time since I did an engine rebuild, I'm more of a body/fender/paint guy.
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It was sittin there for a reason......as they all are.
 
packrat56 said:
It only turns partially around even without the starter off.... Its something inside, I can hear a clunk when it stops (going counter clockwise) Smooth and quiet, and all the way around clockwise though.
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you got the valve cover off? if not, yoink that thing and have a look to see if the valves are moving or you got one stuck (or dropped) that's holding up a full rotation as the piston contacts it.

cars usually don't just get parked.... something happens that takes them off the road. could be minor, could be catastrophic. don't dig too deep or spend any money on something that could be a lost cause. like, i wouldn't be dropping no money on a starter unless the whole thing rolled over easy. and even then, i'd probably go find somebody to rebuild that for a fraction of the cost rather than buy "new".
 
Absolutely, valve cover is next. Im trying to figure out if its a lost cause for sure, the body needs a bit of rust repair and Ive no idea if this engine is worth putting money into, I'm not new to old cars, just never had a Valiant before.
 
i wouldn't write it off out of hand, but... you could put the word on the wire and probably scoop up a running motor that was pulled in favor of V8 for somewhere between: free just come get this damn thing outta my garage to $1000

and most of the time those come with a transmission attached...

it certainly rates having a peek, but i wouldn't throw more than $50 and an afternoon at it.
 
Just pull the engine and tear it down . If all looks good regasket it . If things look bad you saved a lot of time and hassle. If you try to get it running as is you might just ruin the engine because of one cheap part or debris / corrosion inside .
 
I agree with removing the valve cover. Then, just LOOK at all of the valves and see if there are any "short". That would indicate a stuck valve and might be what the piston is coming up against. If you find one, take some GOOD penetrating oil and spray into that spring and try to SOAK the valve stem where it goes into the guide. Let it sit a while and then come back, loosen the rocker adjuster, remove the pushrod (probably bent), push the rocker out of the way and tap the end of the valve stem and see if you can free up that valve. Tap on the VALVE TIP, and NOT the valve spring retainer.
 
Crank needs to go around twice to run through one rotation of the camshaft. So you may have a valve problem and are hitting it going backwards but haven't gone around twice to hit it rotating the other way. Get it?
 
RustyRatRod said:
I agree with removing the valve cover. Then, just LOOK at all of the valves and see if there are any "short". That would indicate a stuck valve and might be what the piston is coming up against. If you find one, take some GOOD penetrating oil and spray into that spring and try to SOAK the valve stem where it goes into the guide. Let it sit a while and then come back, loosen the rocker adjuster, remove the pushrod (probably bent), push the rocker out of the way and tap the end of the valve stem and see if you can free up that valve. Tap on the VALVE TIP, and NOT the valve spring retainer.
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A 225 engine is a "free wheeling" engine, the piston will not hit a valve even if the valve is stuck wide open. A one 170 is an "interference engine" and the piston can hit a wide-open valve. I never checked a 198 engine, so I don't know about that one. (I'm talking about a stock engine, here)
It is possible a valve is stuck and the valve train is keeping the engine from turning over when the cam tries to move the valve. I'm more inclined to think the engine might have a connecting rod problem. Where the crank hits the rod. But definitely check the valve train, first.
 
My $$$$ is on frozen valve(s), the 170 I picked up earlier this year had a few, with these as the reward for the previous owner..
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Forgive me if I sound stupid but is there a side cover you can remove and see if the lifters and pushrods etc are moving freely? also take the valve cover off? Yeah the person in post 18 is thinking along these lines, sometimes a stuck valve may lock things up if the rocker and pushrod jam up etc.
 
mbaird said:
Just pull the engine and tear it down . If all looks good regasket it . If things look bad you saved a lot of time and hassle. If you try to get it running as is you might just ruin the engine because of one cheap part or debris / corrosion inside .
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this is good advice also I would think you'd want to see if a cylinder wall l has rust and pits. when an engine sits outside the cylinder with open valves take on more moisture than the others. Ive seen it real bad with boat engines etc.
 
Charrlie_S said:
A 225 engine is a "free wheeling" engine, the piston will not hit a valve even if the valve is stuck wide open. A one 170 is an "interference engine" and the piston can hit a wide-open valve. I never checked a 198 engine, so I don't know about that one. (I'm talking about a stock engine, here)
It is possible a valve is stuck and the valve train is keeping the engine from turning over when the cam tries to move the valve. I'm more inclined to think the engine might have a connecting rod problem. Where the crank hits the rod. But definitely check the valve train, first.
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Well that's good to know! I bet the one I am building on the stand isn't. LOL
 
It might have a catastrophic engine problem or it might have something simple that would turn into a catastrophic problem if you try to run it.
Either way, I think it would be time well spent to just pull the engine.
 
Crusty, but nothing obviously broken, and moves as it should when I turn several rotations. Counterclockwise rotation still stops with a clunk, I'd say from the back of the engine or the trans...




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