Evans waterless coolant

[22dog22]

I also run Evans Waterless coolant in my 69 cuda, if I fill the radiator[ 3 core aluminium ] to near the top of the tank, when i drive the car it will push coolant out of the overflow tank, but if I just fill the radiator to a little over the core there is not problems, temp, reads the same around 175 degrees

 

[512Stroker]

Could Evans waterless coolant cause my engine to run consistently too hot? Has anyone gone back from Evans to 50/50 and found lower running temperature?

I rebuilt my slant last year and decided to splurge on this non-water coolant while the water was all out of the block. Ever since then it's been running hotter than before. Pointing an infrared thermometer at the thermostat housing, where it used to read 190 it now reads 210. The radiator reads 200-210 at the top and 160-170 at the bottom. This is at idle after driving. 210 is consistent with what I see on the temp gauge while driving. Before the rebuild the needle would be consistently below the midpoint of the gauge, and now it's consistently near the high end. Once the engine warms up, the needle is quite steady in that spot regardless of driving conditions.

- I tried replacing the thermostat and it didn't make a difference.
- The radiator was overhauled by a good shop while the engine was out, but it is the smaller (non-AC) stock slant radiator.
- The water pump is a stock replacement pump.

Why do I care if it runs hot? 2 reasons:
1) Compression is about 8.9:1 static, 7.7:1 dynamic, and it pings under load even with 93 octane. Retarding timing didn't solve that problem. (I also had ping before rebuilding.)
2) Higher under-hood temperature causes more fuel to boil off after parking.

I am almost ready to dump $200 worth of coolant and go back to 50/50, but I wanted to see if anyone else has a similar experience.

Evans is junk been there done that, never again.
I am more concerned about your detonation issue - not good.
You said it pings under load, is that during steady state cruzing or under hard accelerating? Or both?
Do you run a vacuum advance? If so, where is the vacuum line connected, above or below the throttle plates?

 

[rich006]

When I mentioned the NGK heat range numbers, that was from memory. Whatever the numbers were, I went two ranges colder. Must have been from 5 to 7.

For the record, when I replaced the Evans with 50/50 the gauge temperature didn't change and the IR readings didn't change. But when I also changed the thermostat from a 195 to a 160, that made a big difference.

However, the colder thermostat didn't seem to help the pinging problem. I suppose that's because as Dan says, the coolant temperature is not the same as the combustion chamber temperature.

 

[512Stroker]

However, the colder thermostat didn't seem to help the pinging problem. I suppose that's because as Dan says, the coolant temperature is not the same as the combustion chamber temperature.[/QUOTE]

No that still means you have a timing issue.
OP go to post#27 and answer the questions, so we can figure this out before you damage the engine.

 

[RustyRatRod]

All of yall havin over heating issues, just switch over to methanol. But I think some of yall would over heat even then. <smh> lol

 

[rich006]

Well, if we want to get into the pinging issue...

The ping is under moderate to high load and higher speeds, such as on an uphill stretch of highway. I rarely drive on the highway and I don't drive aggressively, so it rarely happens unless I'm testing for it. It's been like that since I got the car 7 years ago with 79k original miles. At that point it had stock everything, with a 1bbl Holley 1945.

Last year I rebuilt the engine. Compression is about 8.9:1 static, 7.7:1 dynamic (I removed material from the block and head and had my camshaft reground to Oregon Cam 2106r specs). A few months later, I installed a Super Six intake with a new Chinese BBD replica carburetor. Every ignition component has been replaced.

Mixture: Wideband AFR reads 16-17 or higher under load with the throttle moderately open or wide open.

Cam timing: checked within 2 degrees when I rebuilt the engine. Harmonic balancer was rebuilt at the time.

Ignition Timing: I rebuilt the distributor with a heavier spring so the advance is about 21 degrees max. It likes a lot of advance at low RPM. I can get the ping to go away by retarding the initial timing, but then it feels underpowered in my normal driving conditions.

Exhaust: Shortly after getting the car, I had the exhaust pipe and muffler replaced.

Ideas welcome.

 

[512Stroker]

Well, if we want to get into the pinging issue...

The ping is under moderate to high load and higher speeds, such as on an uphill stretch of highway. I rarely drive on the highway and I don't drive aggressively, so it rarely happens unless I'm testing for it. It's been like that since I got the car 7 years ago with 79k original miles. At that point it had stock everything, with a 1bbl Holley 1945.

Last year I rebuilt the engine. Compression is about 8.9:1 static, 7.7:1 dynamic (I removed material from the block and head and had my camshaft reground to Oregon Cam 2106r specs). A few months later, I installed a Super Six intake with a new Chinese BBD replica carburetor. Every ignition component has been replaced.

Mixture: Wideband AFR reads 16-17 or higher under load with the throttle moderately open or wide open.

Cam timing: checked within 2 degrees when I rebuilt the engine. Harmonic balancer was rebuilt at the time.

Ignition Timing: I rebuilt the distributor with a heavier spring so the advance is about 21 degrees max. It likes a lot of advance at low RPM. I can get the ping to go away by retarding the initial timing, but then it feels underpowered in my normal driving conditions.

Exhaust: Shortly after getting the car, I had the exhaust pipe and muffler replaced.

Ideas welcome.

16-17 AFR is way to lean you really want to richen that up to 12-13 WOT.
21 degrees mechanical advance is alot, add to that the vacuum advance you have now you know way it is pinging.
With the vacuum advance disconnected and the port capped off what is your total timing at 3200rpm?

 

[RustyRatRod]

Well, if we want to get into the pinging issue...

The ping is under moderate to high load and higher speeds, such as on an uphill stretch of highway. I rarely drive on the highway and I don't drive aggressively, so it rarely happens unless I'm testing for it. It's been like that since I got the car 7 years ago with 79k original miles. At that point it had stock everything, with a 1bbl Holley 1945.

Last year I rebuilt the engine. Compression is about 8.9:1 static, 7.7:1 dynamic (I removed material from the block and head and had my camshaft reground to Oregon Cam 2106r specs). A few months later, I installed a Super Six intake with a new Chinese BBD replica carburetor. Every ignition component has been replaced.

Mixture: Wideband AFR reads 16-17 or higher under load with the throttle moderately open or wide open.

Cam timing: checked within 2 degrees when I rebuilt the engine. Harmonic balancer was rebuilt at the time.

Ignition Timing: I rebuilt the distributor with a heavier spring so the advance is about 21 degrees max. It likes a lot of advance at low RPM. I can get the ping to go away by retarding the initial timing, but then it feels underpowered in my normal driving conditions.

Exhaust: Shortly after getting the car, I had the exhaust pipe and muffler replaced.

Ideas welcome.

I can tell you what I did to mine. It's 7.99 dynamic. Went from RN14 to RN9 plugs. Blocked off the exhaust manifold to intake heat. Limited total timing to 33*. Replaced my craptastic auto parts store thermostat with a Stewart high flow 160. 175 PSI cranking pressure and it runs on 87 with no spark knock, no matter how hard I crowd it. That said, I'm running it on 93 now because it just runs so much better. By far, the thermostat change helped the most. That's what went ahead and eliminated it completely. So much so I was able to go back and raise initial timing back to 20 where it like it best. Through continued tuning, I learned the carburetor was lean as well and could have contributing to the issue, too. I have it pretty much right on now.

 

[pishta]

Don't wanna pay $18 for red line water wetter? Just use a tablespoon of Calgon automatic dishwasher detergent. It does not foam and does the same thing water wetter does, reduces the surface tension of the water and makes it 'stick' to the cylinder bores and block absorbing more of its heat. We have pallets of distilled water in gallon bottles for our CO batteries. 48v@1600Ah, as big as 5 gallon water bottles.

 

[rich006]

16-17 AFR is way to lean you really want to richen that up to 12-13 WOT.

Yes, I do. Any tips on adjusting the mixture on a BBD?

21 degrees mechanical advance is alot, add to that the vacuum advance you have now you know way it is pinging.
With the vacuum advance disconnected and the port capped off what is your total timing at 3200rpm?

Mechanical advance is 30 degrees at 3200 RPM, with 9 degrees initial. That's with the vacuum capped. I'd like to run 15-20 initial.

I replaced the yellow/green spring that was in the distributor with a heavier one from a kit (the one sold on .org), but I left the other spring in place. That's the very heavy one with a long loop on one end so that it doesn't do anything until higher RPM. The stock spring gave at least 28 degrees of mechanical advance.

I do have a distributor from a 79 Lebaron (same car I got my 2-barrel manifold from) but I haven't taken it apart yet.

 

[DON BURKHOLDER]

Yes, I do. Any tips on adjusting the mixture on a BBD?


Mechanical advance is 30 degrees at 3200 RPM, with 9 degrees initial. That's with the vacuum capped. I'd like to run 15-20 initial.

I replaced the yellow/green spring that was in the distributor with a heavier one from a kit (the one sold on .org), but I left the other spring in place. That's the very heavy one with a long loop on one end so that it doesn't do anything until higher RPM. The stock spring gave at least 28 degrees of mechanical advance.

I do have a distributor from a 79 Lebaron (same car I got my 2-barrel manifold from) but I haven't taken it apart yet.

Adjust the metering rods to rise out of the jets earlier is one way but, I would check your float level first!

 

[512Stroker]

Yes, I do. Any tips on adjusting the mixture on a BBD?


Mechanical advance is 30 degrees at 3200 RPM, with 9 degrees initial. That's with the vacuum capped. I'd like to run 15-20 initial.

I replaced the yellow/green spring that was in the distributor with a heavier one from a kit (the one sold on .org), but I left the other spring in place. That's the very heavy one with a long loop on one end so that it doesn't do anything until higher RPM. The stock spring gave at least 28 degrees of mechanical advance.

I do have a distributor from a 79 Lebaron (same car I got my 2-barrel manifold from) but I haven't taken it apart yet.

I am not familiar with a BBD?
That super lean mixture is most likely adding to your pinging issue. You need to correct this first.

Something is not adding up.
Your initial timing is 9* your mechanical advance is 20*
Thus 9*+20*=29* Total timing
You need to have the distributor set up on a distributor machine. Guessing at which springs to use is dicey at best.

 

[rich006]

Adjust the metering rods to rise out of the jets earlier is one way but, I would check your float level first!

Good idea. I didn't adjust the float level because I don't have a "book" measurement for what it should be. Apparently most BBD's used 1/4" but there were some that used 9/32", 5/16", or 11/32". This one isn't tagged with a casting number so I'm shooting in the dark.

I am not familiar with a BBD?
That super lean mixture is most likely adding to your pinging issue. You need to correct this first.

Something is not adding up.
Your initial timing is 9* your mechanical advance is 20*
Thus 9*+20*=29* Total timing
You need to have the distributor set up on a distributor machine. Guessing at which springs to use is dicey at best.

The initial timing is 9 degrees. The max advance is 21 for a total of 30 at 3200 RPM.

The Carter BBD was one of the 2-barrel carburetors used on the "Super Six" slant six F-bodies. Instead of a power enrichment valve, it has a pair of metering rods that stick into the "jets" (probably not the right word). The rods are tapered, and they move up and down according to manifold vacuum and throttle position to effectively adjust the jet size for different driving conditions. There's a screw on top that lets you adjust the baseline height of the rods.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I'm not sure I endorse using something that clings to the block. The purpose of the cooling system is to remove the hot coolant as quickly as possible, right?

 

[DON BURKHOLDER]

Yes, it has been many years ago I had messed with my super six BBD and glad they allow needles to be adjusted. The float level of ANY carburetor is in the ballpark when floats are level with the carb body - Never fails! If your floats are angled down then they were too lean. Be sure to NOT turn the brass fuel line connection fitting as this also contains the float needle and seat combination when removing or re-installing fuel line. If you tighten this fitting you most likely have dropped the float level.
You claim to have a chinese version of BBD? Does it have the removable cover to expose the needle screws? Perhaps a picture would help...

 

[rich006]

Gack. I assumed the carburetor would come from the factory with a reasonable float level preset. How wrong I was. It was about as low as it could be, about 3/4" below the bowl top. I have now raised it to about 1/4" below. That was as high as I could get it without removing the needle valve. I can fine tune it after I establish that this makes a difference.

Here are some pics of the carburetor and the removed step-up piston with the metering rods. This piston is designed a bit different from the Carter version.

Float level before (to be fair, a bit of fuel has evaporated, it would be a *little* higher with fuel pressure):

And after adjusting:

 

[512Stroker]

Good idea. I didn't adjust the float level because I don't have a "book" measurement for what it should be. Apparently most BBD's used 1/4" but there were some that used 9/32", 5/16", or 11/32". This one isn't tagged with a casting number so I'm shooting in the dark.



The initial timing is 9 degrees. The max advance is 21 for a total of 30 at 3200 RPM.

The Carter BBD was one of the 2-barrel carburetors used on the "Super Six" slant six F-bodies. Instead of a power enrichment valve, it has a pair of metering rods that stick into the "jets" (probably not the right word). The rods are tapered, and they move up and down according to manifold vacuum and throttle position to effectively adjust the jet size for different driving conditions. There's a screw on top that lets you adjust the baseline height of the rods.

OK makes more sense now.
Some engine likes 15- 20* initial is not uncommon for a hi performance engine. That's when you will need to recurve the distributor and again a good tech with a distributor machine can set you up a custom curve for your engine.
Don at 4 seconds flat did mine and it works very well.
I have never worked with BBD carb but the needle system works just like an Edelbrock/Carter AFB carbs which I am very familiar with. You need a jet change to make that big of change to richen your carb. The needles are for fine tuning and work very well but you have to make a large change to even get in the ball park that will take a jet change.
Spark plug reading will give you a better picture of your AFR the any meter.
They will also tell you where timing is at.
Read this
Spark plug reading can be complex and sometimes frustrating task this page will help make it easier and the results rewarding

 

[DON BURKHOLDER]

Gack. I assumed the carburetor would come from the factory with a reasonable float level preset. How wrong I was. It was about as low as it could be, about 3/4" below the bowl top. I have now raised it to about 1/4" below. That was as high as I could get it without removing the needle valve. I can fine tune it after I establish that this makes a difference.

Here are some pics of the carburetor and the removed step-up piston with the metering rods. This piston is designed a bit different from the Carter version.View attachment 1715758035View attachment 1715758036
Float level before (to be fair, a bit of fuel has evaporated, it would be a *little* higher with fuel pressure):
View attachment 1715758037
And after adjusting:
View attachment 1715758038View attachment 1715758039View attachment 1715758040

So, with that low of a fuel level initially - now raised nicely you should hopefully see a difference. Always check the basics. Float levels of various specifications by just fractions of an inch difference was what the factory wanted with different engine combos and emissions. All you need is a ballpark, 1/4" is fine..
Good luck finding a pair of jets incrementally larger than what you have, hopefully you do not need them now..

 

[Slantsix64]

Two Things

1st take timing out of your distributor give it 18 mechanical. 10-12 initial is a good starting point with your higher compression. I have 9:2:1 And can run 87 octane with no ping. rework your distributor.

2nd what kind of fan are you running? i run a 18 inch flex fan pulls a **** ton of air through the radiator. The stock fans are garbage.

 

[rich006]

I went for a test drive with the float level set higher. Now AFR reads 13-13.5 at WOT (it was 16-17 before). More to the point, the ping is much reduced, only occurring above 70 mph at WOT (was 50 mph). And the car accelerates better at mid-range speed than before (it used to feel weak at 20-30 mph).

Down side, AFR reads around 10-11 at cruise, probably richer than I want.

Bottom line: it's a huge improvement. However, I still want it a bit richer at WOT and leaner at cruise.

 

[Johnny Dart]

Playing with springs in the distributor does not adjust the amount of mechanical advance. It adjusts the rate the timming comes in. Usually you would install 1 lighter spring into the distributor to get the timming or advance to come in quicker. Limiting the amount of advance requires welding or a plate form Don at 4 seconds flat (FBO).

 

[DON BURKHOLDER]

I went for a test drive with the float level set higher. Now AFR reads 13-13.5 at WOT (it was 16-17 before). More to the point, the ping is much reduced, only occurring above 70 mph at WOT (was 50 mph). And the car accelerates better at mid-range speed than before (it used to feel weak at 20-30 mph).

Down side, AFR reads around 10-11 at cruise, probably richer than I want.

Bottom line: it's a huge improvement. However, I still want it a bit richer at WOT and leaner at cruise.

With no other information, it almost sounds like you are running out of fuel the longer you keep your foot to the floor. It would be nice to be able to watch the fuel pressure over time during WOT. Unusual for a pump not to keep up with a two barrel but, as I said before check the basics. Check your plugs to see if they verify what your AFR is indicating. Nice pictures by the way!