Faceplated 833 4 Speed

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mcodecuda said:
I actually used a piece of 3/4” conduit for an arbor and it worked perfectly.
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I have been wondering about being able to use a piece of conduit for an arbor in the past.
Just one question about the size I will need to get.
Are you using the 3/4" thin wall EMT conduit which has a .922" OD or are you using the thick wall RMC conduit which has a 1.050" OD ?
 
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Good data is important when tuning an adjustable for a combination of clutch slip and wheelspeed, but with a 'tamer controlling the hit launches are dead hook so you can ballpark the clutch with just a tach. Also no need for an expensive adjustable clutch for clutch assisted shifts, 'tamer will soften those as well. With the clutch hits softened, a 23spl will take a lot more power than you might think.

Some might call the 'tamer a cheap band-aid, but there are some very successful NHRA class racers using $169 'tamers to control their Black Magic Nexgens and Boninfante's. One of them even took home a Wally at last year's US Nationals.

Grant
 
Dam that's nice. I never heard of them before. Old and still learning. Thanks.
 
LO23M8B said:
How much HP will the 18 spline vs the 23 spline with the Liberty rework handle with slicks?
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I was just starting to get a handle my slipper clutch when this happened to mine.. 700hp @ 3800#

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Check out some pictures of the WarFish SS/HA 68 Cuda from a few years back. A 4spd car that was setting records and beating up on the SS/HA class at the time. It had big Jerico decals on the rear quarters, and Super Stock Hemi's make well in excess of a thousand horse power. A Jerico DR-4 will run 5 to 7 grand depending on options, about 2500.00 for the right clutch and flywheel, and another 800 to a grand for the bellhousing. But dam it's fun shifting a stick car down the track. Good Luck with your endeavors.
P.S. these are around the going price for new, if you can find good used parts you can cut a lot off those prices. Even an inexpensive used adjustable slipper clutch can be sent back and be rebuilt to your specs for about a third the cost of new. I bought a refreshed, spare DR-4 from a stock eliminator racer for 2 grand and for around 200.00 plus shipping strait from Jerico i bought an 18 spline Mopar input shaft and bearing retainer and received the full history on the trans.
 
19DART66 said:
Check out some pictures of the WarFish SS/HA 68 Cuda from a few years back. A 4spd car that was setting records and beating up on the SS/HA class at the time. It had big Jerico decals on the rear quarters, and Super Stock Hemi's make well in excess of a thousand horse power. A Jerico DR-4 will run 5 to 7 grand depending on options, about 2500.00 for the right clutch and flywheel, and another 800 to a grand for the bellhousing. But dam it's fun shifting a stick car down the track. Good Luck with your endeavors.
P.S. these are around the going price for new, if you can find good used parts you can cut a lot off those prices. Even an inexpensive used adjustable slipper clutch can be sent back and be rebuilt to your specs for about a third the cost of new. I bought a refreshed, spare DR-4 from a stock eliminator racer for 2 grand and for around 200.00 plus shipping strait from Jerico i bought an 18 spline Mopar input shaft and bearing retainer and received the full history on the trans.
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If he’s not limited to 4 gears why do it? 5 is always quicker.
 
5 sounds good as some tracks are 1/8 and others are 1/4. If anyone as any good used stuff keep me in mind please. A new turbo 400, case and convertor will be 7-8k. So at this point it's going to be what I can get for a fair $.
 
1975abody said:
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View attachment 1715430018 View attachment 1715430019 View attachment 1715430017 View attachment 1715430018 View attachment 1715430019 I see that there's not a whole lot of information in regards to faceplated 833 transmissions.

I am going to share my experience with assembly and results of having a faceplated transmission.

I sent my gear set to Libertys Gears for the faceplating machine work, cryo treatment, and thermal stabilization.

Turnaround time time was about 1 month. When I received the gears, I was very impressed with the welding,machine work, and surface finish.

What Libertys did not tell me, even though I specifically asked them, is that the trans does not go together like a stock gearset. Due to the faceplates on 4th gear, re-assembly requires that the cluster gear lays in the bottom of the case then drop the mainshaft assembly into place, lift the cluster gear in place, then slide the arbor through the cluster gear. Keep in mind that the cluster gear thrust washers have to be held in place during this process.

The next challenge that Libertys did not tell me about, is that a special 3-4 fork needs to be purchased from Libertys, as the stock fork hits the case before engaging 4th gear.

I also have a Libertys modified shift cover, and I radiused and polished the shift selector detents, and shortened the shift levers so that my Hurst RamRod only has about 3" of travel between the gears.

First driving impressions were exactly what I expected, very harsh and loud shifts.

I've been daily driving it to work for about 2 weeks. I've got it to the point that I can down shift as silently and smoothly as a synchro box.

Ive found that if I let the rpm drop to an idle between up shifts, it will silently drop into gear.

I've read numerous posts from people that say that it needs to be slammed into gear regardless of rpm or whether it is being granny shifted or powershifted. My combo of aluminum flywheel, .528" DC solid lifter cam and 3:55's does not require this style of shifting.

As for no lift foot to the floor powershifting at 6500 rpm... it's effing amazing !!!

This is by far the best modification I've ever done to the car. I will never have another syncro'd trans again!

I have another box on the bench that needs rebuilt, and it will be faceplated shortly. In my case the syncro teeth on the speed gears were wiped out anyway, so faceplatingin this case was cheaper than buying a new gearset.

If anyone is considering this, I would encourage them to do it!!
Don't listen to all the horror stories that people post saying that they are not suited for serious street miles. If you take the time to understand your how your combination wants to be shifted, you will be able to shift smoothly and silently under normal driving, and when you want to play some high rpm shifting games, just tap the clutch and pull a gear.

The strangest part was training my left leg to keep up with my right hand, after so many years of shifting with synchros.
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So how is it holding up? How much daily driving/cruising do you still do with it? I used to drive a Mack and am used to floating gears, you mentioned that with practice you were smooth as synchro'd but you didn't indicate if you were floating or clutching. If you're floating, do you do that to downshift while crusing, as well?
 
I have a face plated 18 spline in my 68 GTS. Liberty supplied the gear set circa 2014 and it is still alive an well. It lived in my 66 Charger behind a few big blocks before it grew a G Force GF5R in 2016.

The face plated 4 speed has been in my GTS for three seasons. Two with a nitrous assisted 451" and last season with the much, much stouter 511". The only maintenance required to the face plates is dressing teeth on the sliders. The face plates are HARD and do not seem to wear. I tear it down every summer and that is about the only normal wear item.

I have had some other issues with the transmission rear mainshaft bearing due to tire shake.

Running Redline medium weight shock proof gear oil was an eye opener for me. The transmission is much quieter and still shifts effortlessly.

I assume this particular transmission is still alive due a) running a clutch tamer and b) running small tire aka 275/60/15 on the charger and a bias 235-60-14 on the GTS.

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Nice! Is this an 18 spline or 23? I really want to convert from auto to 4sp and found a guy with the whole thing-flywheel, quicktime bell, twin disc, hydraulic T/O bearing, and shifter for a great total price (3k), but it's 23 spline and unsure of how much wear on it.

If his 23 spline needed freshened, then i would get it faceplated instead.

Or i could call brewers and spend 5-6K for a fresh 18 plus the rest of stuff and faceplating, but im trying to only spend what is needed. And this is a 99%street car. 500hpLA and 3000lbs on a 29x10.5 Hoosier street tire. I'm a bit worried about the 23spline aspect....
 
69fury said:
Nice! Is this an 18 spline or 23? I really want to convert from auto to 4sp and found a guy with the whole thing-flywheel, quicktime bell, twin disc, hydraulic T/O bearing, and shifter for a great total price (3k), but it's 23 spline and unsure of how much wear on it.

If his 23 spline needed freshened, then i would get it faceplated instead.

Or i could call brewers and spend 5-6K for a fresh 18 plus the rest of stuff and faceplating, but im trying to only spend what is needed. And this is a 99%street car. 500hpLA and 3000lbs on a 29x10.5 Hoosier street tire. I'm a bit worried about the 23spline aspect....
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What gear is in the car? At 3k and 500 fwhp I would not hesitate to run a 23 spline box. You will have to make sure the clutch isn't too aggressive however that is true with any manual transmission. Is the transmission all cast iron? It is also good to know if the gears are liberty supplied 9310 material or stock converted parts.
 
Jeremiah (jd) said:
What gear is in the car? At 3k and 500 fwhp I would not hesitate to run a 23 spline box. You will have to make sure the clutch isn't too aggressive however that is true with any manual transmission. Is the transmission all cast iron? It is also good to know if the gears are liberty supplied 9310 material or stock converted parts.
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The one i'm looking at buying would be all iron, if it's worn I'd send the stock parts to convert by liberty if they are still nice. the rear is a frankland quickchange, so anywhere in the 3's for cruing RPM's on a 29inch tire. and mid 4's for fund.

It's an old gasser (non mopar) that has radiused quarters but not tubbed and I can run wider easily but dont want it ridiculous-ideally a 30-33inch diameter but as narrow as I can find in a street/slick would fill the radius well. I believe the frankland to be tough, but not glued-track tough, so maybe that's my limit?

The used trans comes with a new mcleod twin disc/diaphragm. The 414 made 480hp/520lb ft on engine dyno. But i know i'll end up spraying it with at least a hundred at some point in the future. Brewer said they'd run 18spline at 600hp &up but if i dont shock it on a glued track, does that give me a cushion to run the 23 with faceplating?

Thanks,
Rick
 
Too much clutch is what will kill that 23spl, not a glued track or sticky tires. Not sure which McLeod twin you have, but even the least rated version will need some hit softening for your application.

Grant
 
I was lucky to find a faceplated 3.09 on the shelve from Dan Brewer.
When I sent my 2.66 to Liberty in 2021 it took MONTHS to get it done.
Faceplating A-833 transmission gears is not a big part of their business and not high priority.
 
weedburner said:
Too much clutch is what will kill that 23spl, not a glued track or sticky tires. Not sure which McLeod twin you have, but even the least rated version will need some hit softening for your application.

Grant
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i dont know which clutch he's got. i'm waiting for pics of parts and part numbers since it's quite a drive for me to go get it.
 
69fury said:
So how is it holding up? How much daily driving/cruising do you still do with it? I used to drive a Mack and am used to floating gears, you mentioned that with practice you were smooth as synchro'd but you didn't indicate if you were floating or clutching. If you're floating, do you do that to downshift while crusing, as well?
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It's holding up fine. I drive it probably 7,000 - 8,000 miles per year. I always use the clutch, regardless if I'm granny shifting, or shifting it hard. For downshifting, I blip the throttle to rev match and it smoothly goes out of/into gear.
It's been on my mind to pull the cover and take a peek at the lugs on the plates, but it shifts exactly the same as the day it was installed, so I haven't bothered.
 
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