FBO's black HEI ignition box

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Bewy said:
RB,
I don't need to read Taylor's book or any other book to understand how an air bleed works. I know how it works, it is not that hard; but you haven't got a clue because you cannot describe the process.
Click to expand...

Wrong again. I’m not explaining **** to you. I’ve already told you multiple times that plug gaps do not make power anywhere and you can’t grasp that.

And, because you are such an arrogant fool that you won’t listen Taylor (if you even have a clue who he is) why would you listen to little old me.

If I was as wrong as you I’d close down the computer and go play checkers.

Unless you love building, tuning and racing slow assed Pontiacs. There is no help for that.
 
Fishmen,
I re-read your post #96 about the 'best spark' & I assume you mean a smaller plug gap works better in a 2 stroke.
There is a very good reason for that, which is unique to the 2 stroke. Two stroke engines are notorious for oiling up spark plugs, nature of the beast. One of the 'cures' is CD ign. CD ign has a very high energy spark, but very short duration, about 1/10 th that of inductive ign. This duration is so short there is literally not enough time for the deposits to bleed off all the spark energy. There is some energy left to fire the gap, but the gap probably has to be smaller because of the energy already lost. I'll bet if a more powerful ign system was available, a larger gap could be used & more power made.
David Vizard has talked about an ign system developed for F1 that sounded like a lightening bolt. It was so powerful that it was banned because it was feared a shock from it could be fatal.
 
RB, RB, RB.....
I think I am going to call you Mister Wrong. I will be respectful though & use a capital W.
Wrong on all these points in this thread & wrong in many other threads....
Wrong about:
- how an air bleed works
- unable to explain how an AB works
- 44 Promag producing more spark current than batt & coil ign
- what Urich said about power valve selection
- what bigger plug gaps can do
- the MSD mags primary current
- no proof of MSDs magneto current rating method or any other brand to support your RMS claim
- HEI centri advance system
- my typing finger is getting sore.....
 
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NirvanaNevermindalbumcover.jpg
 
Bewy said:
RB, RB, RB.....
I think I am going to call you Mister Wrong. I will be respectful though & use a capital W.
Wrong on all these points in this thread & wrong in many other threads....
Wrong about:
- how an air bleed works
- unable to explain how an AB works
- 44 Promag producing more spark current than batt & coil ign
- what Urich said about power valve selection
- what bigger plug gaps can do
- the MSD mags primary current
- no proof of MSDs magneto current rating method or any other brand to support your RMS claim
- HEI centri advance system
- my typing finger is getting sore.....
Click to expand...


Lets see…I was going to answer this last night but I took a phone call from a guy who’s been doing this much longer than me and he’s says you’re an idiot.

His exact words were “I start at .040 gap and close it up from there until the power falls off and then open it up .004 and send it.

So I said why not open the gap past .040 and he said never has he seen a bigger than .040 gap make power. He has seen some engines that don’t LOSE power with a .060 gap but he has never seen one make power with a .060 gap.

And that is exactly what ALL my testing has shown.

So there you go. And he called me on a whim. Well, he called because I made a typographical error on another forum and he caught it and I didn’t. So I fixed that and off we went on a three hour conversation.

Ok, let’s see…I’ll take these one at a time.

I know how an air bleed works AND I can explain it. The problem is you don’t like it so you just ignore it. I have already posted the volume, page and paragraph plus added a photo of the Taylor book where he explains what you can’t understand. So if you can’t learn from Taylor you won’t listen to me. Your arrogance is appalling.

A 44 MSD Mag does produce more power AT THE PLUG than any battery fired ignition out there, and that’s per MSD. Go look it up.

I can probably find where Urich said the wrong way to set PV timing. But I’m not doing it. Why you ask? Because it may be in his book, may be in an article but no one and I mean NO ONE who had Holley’s blessing to write books and articles had to say to time the PV they way Holley says to TO THIS DAY. Holley is STILL teaching that you open the power valve at 1/2 idle vacuum even though it’s been proven wrong. Urich is just another guy who had to toe the line.

I already covered the plug gap issue. The only explanation I can give is that in Australia physics and **** work differently that the do in the US. Or maybe you are just wrong. Likely the latter.

Its COMICAL that you are so blinded by your arrogance and ignorance that you think I can’t PROVE that MSD rates it’s mags in…let’s say it this way…in an unorthodox method. I can prove it very simply but nothing will sway you out of your ignorance.

And yes, the HEI is the greatest ignition and the GM advance mechanism is the greatest ever and nothing can come close let alone compare to it.

I‘ll make you a deal. If I post positive PROOF that MSD doesn’t use RMS to rate it’s mags and that their mags do NOT produce the primary current MSD claims when you use the industry standard then once it’s posted you leave FABO and NEVER come back.

Agree to that and I’ll post up the proof right quick.
 
What I will agree to is seeing some proof of your claims. There has been none yet....

- The reason you want me gone is that I am one of the few on this forum who stands up to you & calls out your BS.

- I thank you for at least admitting that the HEI adv system is a good system. That you say the system is the greatest ever & nothing comes close are your words, not mine.....

- The reason you don't provide answers/evidence is you don't know/haven't got any. If you really had 'something' that would shut me up, we would have seen it my now after 100 + posts.....

- arrogance? Is that because I have the gall to call out your BS.....

- if you had evidence of MSDs duplicity in it's the tech specs it provides, we would heard it by now.

- & now you are having a bet each way. Post #106 you say the 44 mag does produce more spark current than batt & coil, but I have given two examples of that being WRONG & the opposite is true. You have no proof or evidence, as usual.
- MSD doesn't use RMS to rate their mags, according to you. I couldn't find any info to support this or any other brands such Zig, Vertex or Mallory. Here's the thing, moron. There are only three ways to rate alternating current: peak, average or RMS. Peak is the peak of the sign wave, the highest value. Average is 0.636 of peak & RMS is 0.707 of peak. If MSD uses average, then the energy value is actually HIGHER than the RMS of the industry standard by a factor of 11%. If MSD uses peak voltage, then it is lower......which then further weakens your nonsense about the 44 mag producing higher sec current than bat & coil because the sec current would in fact be lower....
- if you have the Taylor book, post the relevant page.
 
More on plug gaps. Accel 300 + ign recommendations from Accel:
"Gap spark plugs to 0.040" for 12:1 compression & 0.050" [ or more ] for lower compression motors".
 
Bewy said:
What I will agree to is seeing some proof of your claims. There has been none yet....

- The reason you want me gone is that I am one of the few on this forum who stands up to you & calls out your BS.

- I thank you for at least admitting that the HEI adv system is a good system. That you say the system is the greatest ever & nothing comes close are your words, not mine.....

- The reason you don't provide answers/evidence is you don't know/haven't got any. If you really had 'something' that would shut me up, we would have seen it my now after 100 + posts.....

- arrogance? Is that because I have the gall to call out your BS.....

- if you had evidence of MSDs duplicity in it's the tech specs it provides, we would heard it by now.

- & now you are having a bet each way. Post #106 you say the 44 mag does produce more spark current than batt & coil, but I have given two examples of that being WRONG & the opposite is true. You have no proof or evidence, as usual.
- MSD doesn't use RMS to rate their mags, according to you. I couldn't find any info to support this or any other brands such Zig, Vertex or Mallory. Here's the thing, moron. There are only three ways to rate alternating current: peak, average or RMS. Peak is the peak of the sign wave, the highest value. Average is 0.636 of peak & RMS is 0.707 of peak. If MSD uses average, then the energy value is actually HIGHER than the RMS of the industry standard by a factor of 11%. If MSD uses peak voltage, then it is lower......which then further weakens your nonsense about the 44 mag producing higher sec current than bat & coil because the sec current would in fact be lower....
- if you have the Taylor book, post the relevant page.
Click to expand...

I want you gone because you are a loud mouthed punk.

All you ever do it talk about what others have done and what Bosch and Accel and anyone else says when in FACT real world testing says you’re an idiot.

One could do a 5 minute search on youtube to show you how MSD measure primary output for their mags. I call it fraudulent at best but really it’s lying.

Ill post up the link but when it proves you are an idiot then you need to leave FABO forever.

Or just STFU about everything.

That’s the rules. Find it yourself or leave when you are exposed.

Later dood.


EDIT: Do a search for the Taylor quote. I’ve posted right here on FABO at least twice.

And my offer stands. I’ll post up the Taylor quote and you leave forever.

Or GFY.
 
RB,
Lots of 'hot air' from you as usual. Never any facts evidence.
Your hypocrisy is BREATHTAKING: when I quote reputable sources to back up my claims, you dismiss them because you cannot find anything to counter the claim.
How many posts is it now that we have been hearing about MSDs bogus numbers, but no evidence???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I have lost count.

'That's the rules'? Must be a one-off rule for you & different rules for everybody else.

I wouldn't be talking about your standard because anybody reading post #110 can see you don't have any.

And I will say it again, maybe you didn't read it the first time: you want me gone because I am one of the few people on this forum who calls out your BS.
Merry Christmas.
 
Bewy said:
RB,
Lots of 'hot air' from you as usual. Never any facts evidence.
Your hypocrisy is BREATHTAKING: when I quote reputable sources to back up my claims, you dismiss them because you cannot find anything to counter the claim.
How many posts is it now that we have been hearing about MSDs bogus numbers, but no evidence???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I have lost count.

'That's the rules'? Must be a one-off rule for you & different rules for everybody else.

I wouldn't be talking about your standard because anybody reading post #110 can see you don't have any.

And I will say it again, maybe you didn't read it the first time: you want me gone because I am one of the few people on this forum who calls out your BS.
Merry Christmas.
Click to expand...


I already said why I want you gone.

Of course, if you were as correct as you think you are you’d be all over it. You’d agree and make me look stupid.

You cain’t because you cain’t.

Agree to the rules and I’ll make you look stupid. And then we can all say buh-bye to you.

Don’t worry though. You still be on Speed Talk, screwing it up with horrible advice and blabber.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!
 
The main advantage of that FBO box is that no rewiring needed if you have a 1970's e-ign car. What is funny is people with a points car who want to upgrade to e-ign and chose the Mopar ECU with its complex wiring (dual ballast resistors, ...) then install this FBO box. Ditto for 1970's cars with degraded underhood wiring. Using a GM HEI is much simpler wiring and a stronger spark (no ballast). Their 8-pin HEI is the best choice (1985-95 small-cap distributor) since comes with GM coil and cable which connects the two and robust sealed connectors. TrailBeast (earlier reply here) used to sell a kit. I use on my 3 1960's Mopars. Another advantage is that some EFI systems (Holley Commander 950 on mine) can control spark timing via that HEI module.
 
RB,
Still waiting for evidence......
Agree & make you look stupid? I have already done that with LOTS of help from you.....
You can bluster all you like......
Agree to 'the rules'.............
Your rules, you make them up to suit the argument......
Why would I or anybody else do that?
 
BillG,
Agree that the GM HEI is the way to go if you want to upgrade the ign. It is the simplest way.
 
RB,
I am honoured that you follow me on ST. What name do you hide under on that site? Are you TMP? Some of his nonsense sounds remarkably similar to yours.
 
Re the discussion of spark gap, my 1996 Plymouth 2.4L would misfire bad when going full throttle at low speed, like accelerating on an on-ramp. If I backed off the throttle slightly, the engine would smooth. Of course, that could be from poor fuel flow, but I suspected spark since it didn't misfire at high rpm and wide throttle, like climbing the Sierras at 65 mph, which is higher fuel flow (i.e. power). I found a TSB for the same engine w/ turbocharger, which suggested lowering the spark plug gap. I did from spec 60 mil to 50 mil and no more misfires. Why the misfires at above conditions?

At low rpm there is less pressure drop in the intake manifold. With open throttle, cylinder pressure is at max (close to atmospheric). Of course even higher with boost (TSB). It is harder to throw a spark at high pressure. In the reverse of a vacuum chamber, sparks can easily jump many feet (air is easily ionized). Why did it affect my engine? The vehicle had suffered a left-front collision (wifey driving) which knocked the front end over (bent strut) and dislodged the PCM so perhaps slight damage to the ignition circuit (cracked trace on board?), or perhaps just degradation with age. Anyway, runs fine with 50 mil gap, which is still much more than the 35 mil of old Mopars.

BTW, last year daughter pulled in front of a Ford Transit mail-van which hit the right front (bent strut and tie-rod). While that adds symmetry, I had already bent the front back after the first hit. The Transit was totaled (wimpy Ford full-size van vs Mopar minivan). I fixed-er again w/ new strut ($20) and fender & door from junkyard ($150), then painted currently popular light-grey so daughter won't fuss about the failed clearcoat (shiny is all she cares). The paint was leftover from painting my 1985 M-B after daughter crashed it (2 crashes in first 2 years driving).
 
Last edited:
Bill,
I would only advocate bigger plug gaps, & always have, like 060 with a powerful ign system like HEI. Would not recommend it for stock Mopar system, never have.

If I am reading your post correctly, the engine that got smaller plug gaps was turboed. Not surprised at all it misfired with large plug gaps. Pretty sure I said earlier in this thread [ could have been another thread ] that bigger gaps like 060 are for NA engines. Non - NA such as turbo, blown, nitrous are likely to misfire with 060 gaps HEI.
The benefits of bigger plug gaps may not be felt or measured at higher/peak rpms but are often felt at rpms other than peak. People with thick heads do not understand this. Comments like 'Increased the plug gap & engine runs smoother'. That means it is misfiring less & making more HP, but only felt at cruising RPM.
 
never seen the black box i rub the fbo white box for the last 4 years never a problem , set the rev limiter @ 6800 , I often forget to shift , sure has saved my engine a few times
 
Bewy said:
Bill,

I would only advocate bigger plug gaps, & always have, like 060 with a powerful ign system like HEI. Would not recommend it for stock Mopar system, never have.



If I am reading your post correctly, the engine that got smaller plug gaps was turboed. Not surprised at all it misfired with large plug gaps. Pretty sure I said earlier in this thread [ could have been another thread ] that bigger gaps like 060 are for NA engines. Non - NA such as turbo, blown, nitrous are likely to misfire with 060 gaps HEI.
The benefits of bigger plug gaps may not be felt or measured at higher/peak rpms but are often felt at rpms other than peak. People with thick heads do not understand this. Comments like 'Increased the plug gap & engine runs smoother'. That means it is misfiring less & making more HP, but only felt at cruising RPM.
Click to expand...
No, my 2.4L is not turbo. Those were the SRT engines (Neon and PT Cruiser). Boost from a turbo increases cylinder pressure, which makes it harder for a spark to jump. I recall an article ~15 years ago where Ford was planning a head gasket which would serve double-duty as the spark plug, throwing the spark across the entire cylinder. Never heard why it was dropped, but can imagine long-term issues even if they could get it to work at low rpm w/ high throttle. Hopefully, they would have at least tapped a hole for a spark plug (plugged it) as a fall-back position for recalls.
 
Bewy said:
RB,
Still waiting for evidence......
Agree & make you look stupid? I have already done that with LOTS of help from you.....
You can bluster all you like......
Agree to 'the rules'.............
Your rules, you make them up to suit the argument......
Why would I or anybody else do that?
Click to expand...

Here you go. Learn something.

 
Brain surgeon.
The business end of a mag [ or any ign system ] is the spark current & energy output, not the primary current.
Millers 4 amp mag produces 58mA of spark current & 253 mJ of energy.

The 12 mag that he is trying to discredit produces 141mA [ converted from peak to RMS ] of sec current & 300 mJ of energy. Spark duration is 26* of crank rotation compared to 17* for Miller's mag.

Also, RMS is NOT average current/voltage in electrical parlance. Average is 0.636 of peak, RMS is 0.707 of peak.

One wonders if Miller gets this wrong, what else has he got wrong.
Read Post #125 & learn....
 
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