Fighting a red light camera ticket

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mshred

mshred

The Green Manalishi
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Hey guys,

as if i wasnt having enough of a bad day, i come home to find in the mail an envelope addressed to me that houses pictures of me in the scamp going through a red light.....the price of the ticket, 325 dollars!!!!!!!

Now you can imagine how pissed i am, and i dont feel like just paying it...I know most of you guys are from the states, so your traffic system is obviously different, even in the slightest, but im looking for some ideas on how to fight this...There is no way im handing over the cash just like that...im going to set a trial date and attempt to go in again after they give it to me and change it with the excuse that i must attend school on that day

If i do go to trial though, they do have evidence against me saying i ran it...what would you guys say? I am going to go back to the intersection and have a look at the flashing crosswalk signals, and will try to use the excuse that there was no numerical countdown...I am also cruising with a friend who is leading in the photo, so i was going to use the excuse that i was following him, and with the manual brakes, it was just too hard to stop in time without losing control....does this sound cheesy?

my brother keeps telling me that either way im guilty, but heck isnt it "innocent until proven guilty"?

any suggestions on how fight this in court would be great!

Thanks guys!
Matthew

ps this does not affect my insurance rates nor do i lose demerit points on my license...i just dont want to pay 325 bucks...i gotta build a motor this winter, that money needs to be saved
 
Well u also have to think that no matter what according to the traffic camera u ran it. The judge doesn't care what car it was in or how badass it is. I would say pay it (really no good excuse for it) I don't know about where you live but they do not give traffic school but on first offenses. If you actually go to court and try to fight it then they will make you pay court costs on top of the 325. So i would say just take the 325 loss and just learn from it I guess. Hope this helps!
 
that was not meant to be an asshole comment, I had similar happin to me a few years back and tried to fight it, lost anyway and then they added court fees, Wish I would have just paid it
 
There is only one way that I know of and that is to find out how long ( in seconds ) the yellow is supposed to be lit before it turns red, and then go and time the light and see if it is correct.
 
Matthew, I'm sorry to say that your chances are none to none. You were proven guilty with the picture and whatever speed you were doing, printed on the ticket. If you even mention the brakes you may face a safety check to make sure the brakes work properly.
Going to school isn't an excuse. Many others go to school too and didn't get flagged.
I'm in Winnipeg and have been hit up twice while I was on the job.
If you go ahead and take it to court, be careful it may end up costing you more.
Mike
 
Hey guys,

i appreciate the responses and dont take them as a-hole ones, no worries

i understand my chances are slim to none...ive been reading up on a site called ticketcombat.com...that is where i found out about posting a trial date, then trying to postpone (my student status is not as an excuse to get out of the ticket, but an excuse to change the trial date...apparently according to this site it is easyily done as long as you do it before your trial and not the day of...my brother has seen it happen first hand there before)

I thought too about the comment of my brakes being manual brakes and whether or not they would say they need an inspection...but by any standards, its not like the car is unsafe, just doesnt stop as good as say an 2000 civic, which is a given really...am i stupid for thinking this? i mean, if cars like ours arent safe, why would they let us drive em right?

In regards to the yellow light and the time it takes to turn red, according to the ticket i recieved it says that the officer has certified that red light camera system was in proper working order when the picture was taken
 
I watched a light down here that malfunctioned and defaulted to its back up mode witch is 4 way flashing red. The cameras flashed every car that legally stopped and proceeded as the law requires. The lights didn't have a short outage did they? Just an idea. I would go pay the fine you ran the light.
 
well i just looked up the law in the traffic act, which is section 18.1, and there is this statement about section 18.1


"No dismissal

(18.4) No charge shall be dismissed, and no certificate of offence shall be quashed, on the basis that a certificate of offence or offence notice specifies subsection (18.1) or (18.2), instead of subsection (18), as the provision that was contravened. 1998, c. 38, s. 3 (1)."

Lovely, looks like im royally screwed

the part that ticks me off is that when it turned red, i had NO way of stopping in time...you can even tell from the pictures...and i dont speed in this car either, EVERYBODY passes me when im driving, unless im flooring it (i take it easy so as not to open the secondaries when cruising around)

well, talk about a great day
 
mshred said:
I am going to go back to the intersection and have a look at the flashing crosswalk signals, and will try to use the excuse that there was no numerical countdown...
Click to expand...
My buddy actually had the same ticket here in Cambridge Ontario and tried to fight it. He first used the excuse that the weather was bad and the road was icy, and there was absolutely no way he was going to be able to stop without losing control. He was then told that that was not a valid excuse because he should have been driving at a speed that would have allowed him to come to a complete and safe stop. He then went on to say that if the crossing count down was there he would have been able to have known how long he had and would have been able to stop. To which he was told its on the pedestrian signal for a reason, its not there to alert people that are driving cars, that’s why there is a lighting system right in front of the roadway. In the end he lost the case and he lost a days pay.

Marshall
 
Yes you got a ticket and yes that sucks. But, YES you ran the light. I would just pay the ticket since you know you did wrong. I got a ticket a few months back for speeding on the freeway. Cop pulls me over and got a ticket for doing 80ish even though I was going faster than that. I paid the ticket, did traffic school and got on with life. Sht happens.
 
I have heard from a hot rod relative that there is a clear spray paint which will prevent the camera from reading the plate number. Maybe a rare car is not the car to drive through a red light?
 
I don't know about your municipality but here near where I live the cameras were put up by a private company and they get the money for the tickets. For the city letting the company put up the cameras they pay the city a portion of the money collected. That's the key word "collected".

It is too costly and time consuming to have a city help a private company collect the money in court so they don't do anything about it if you don't pay. They get their money by people being scared into paying. Unless a face is in the photo then it is nearly impossible to prove who was driving while the infraction occured. There is reasonable doubt because there is no positive ID. There is positive ID that it was a certain car but no positive ID who was driving. The Police and Procecutors Office know this.

I will say unless you know for sure I wouldn't fool with it and just pay it. After all you just admitted to doing it. The other guys are right, if you fight and lose there will be court assessments on top of the fine.


Chuck
 
The only way that I have heard to get out of a red light camera ticket is to say that you were not the one driving. Of course, if you are clearly in the picture driving your car, you are out of luck. If, however, your friend was driving your car, and the ticket was sent to you as you are the registered owner, then you can say this isnt you driving so you shouldn't pay the ticket - you've been falsly accused. I had someone once say that there is nothing in the laws that requires you to give up the name of your friend who was driving - this was here in California and a couple of years ago, so maybe it's been changed. Your only saving grace would be if there was a glare on the windshield, or if the windshield was dirty, and you can't be seen clearly in the picture.
 
Geez I hate that for you. The judge is going to go with camera... it's like a real in the flesh police officer standing there. You might as well pay it I guess and move on. Good luck!
 
I'd just pay it. Here in B.C. If you claim your car doesn't stop that well they could ask you to get a Motor Vehicle Inspection....

Garth
 
Just a thought. Google Springfield, Missouri and look for this issue in there somewhere. They ruled it unconstitutional the way they were doing it. May not work in another country but look at it and decide for yourself. I like the theory that they never saw your face so how can you be guilty. After all, you loan your car to no tellin how many people at your place to make a beer run at all hours of the day and night. Probably something you dont keep track of. Personally i think it's a crock of ****.
Small Block
 
People run lights all the time, and when I was a uniformed Trooper with traffic law enforcement responsibilities there were poorly-constructed intersections where I'd purposefully sit on and wait for drivers to run the lights to 1.) "show the flag" so to speak that we were out there to enforce the law and more importantly 2.) try to slow people down and help prevent collisions. IMHO the cameras are merely a revenue collector, compared to the job I and my brethren performed of actually witnessing violations, stopping motorists and interracting with them for the positive. I didn't write traffic citations to everyone I stopped; if it was a borderline violation, I'd issue a Written Warning Notice. The cameras, on the other hand, have no discretion.
My sincere sympathy, but as you said, you've got a none-to-none chance. Better luck to you.
 
I heard of a business called Points.I think you can contact them if you feel you have been unfairly charged with a traffic violation.Not sure how it works and if they could help you.Had trouble trying to find them on the net.Just a thought.8)
 
well either way I love T O, CNE and Yonge st. Not to steal your post but once lost my CA license plate on the Queensway in the snow and I reported it and a Mountie called me every day for ten days saying they haven't found it. Back then I was driving a 55 Ford p/u with a 289 and webbers. It made quite a hit up there in 1976
 
Point to think about:
Was really where you were going that important to go through a traffic light? I have conducted numerous traffic accident investigations; mostly city driving, but many serious accidents. There is nothing that is important enough to run a light and change your life or someone elses forever to save 30-60 seconds. I have run my share in the past, but since learned. Think about this when that light goes yellow and you have that thought, "I can make it." Is where I am going worth dying for???????

In most states it doesnt matter who was driving, the ticket goes to the registered owner and if the reg. owner was not driving, then he must provide the information on who was. Now, if you allow a buddy to drive and he racks up some tickets, then you are looking at civil court case against him/her. Either way, they are cash cows for whatever municipality they are erected. Believe it or not, even police get these same tickets when on duty and are required to pay them!
 
"In regards to the yellow light and the time it takes to turn red, according to the ticket i recieved it says that the officer has certified that red light camera system was in proper working order when the picture was taken."

Go out and time the light and ask the same question. Also, when was the last time the timing was certifed to be correct ?
 
I was driving home late one night (2am) from working a double during a rain storm and when the traffic light turned yellow I knew there was no way I could stop in time for the red and I saw the the camera flash. When I got home I told my wife to keep an eye out for the notice in the mail. About 6 months go by and the notice finally shows up and says that since I did not respond to the original notice sent to me the fine is doubled and I cannot contest the ticket. Talking about being screwed. This happenned in Washington DC. (They wrote the book on screwing us)
 
If there's a semi behind you in the picture tell the judge that you were afraid he wasn't going to be able to stop. Around here cars get rear ended all the time at the intersections with photo radar. Stats showed that there are more rear end collisions since the cameras went up, but less left turn and broadside crashes.

Worst of all, a few of the cities which run the cameras out here purposely reset the yellow lights to run shorter at camera controlled intersections than at non-camera intersections. It's all about the money. The more people they can nab, the happier they are.
 
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