Finally decided on a cam for teen SB. Should I bother with header?

[longarm]

If your not changing the springs, I wouldn't waste the time or money on a new cam.
Whatever cam you use it should be for torque only in
those rpm parameters.

I think your fun(ds) would be better spent on a quality torque convertor in the 2200 range.
Imho your dual exhaust and manifolds are fine for what you have.

 

[cudaracer]

If your not changing the springs, I wouldn't waste the time or money on a new cam.
I think your fun(ds) would be better spent on a quality torque convertor in the 2200 range.
Imho your dual exhaust and manifolds are fine for what you want.

really?
I thought of that, but remember, I have a cam that does not come to life until after 1600rpms. Would it not be far better to start your power band at idle in an automatic?
I have to work hard to break the tires loose as it is. And a TC will help that, it still will not solve having a power band that is at a level that I barely will live at, not to mention I have given up a lot of DCR as well.

 

[cudaracer]

btw, running a DCR calculator, I am currently at 6.6 DCR. Way too low. I should be around 8.5-8.7 instead.

With my new cam I will be much better off at around 7.85

 

[longarm]

I think your on the right track and a torque building cam
is a step in the right direction for sure if you don't run
any harder than that, but a good convertor will plant you solid in
the cams torque range instead of a slow drag to that range.
If you spent the money for a really good convertor, I wouldn't
be afraid of a 2600/2800.
And I would use new recommended springs/lifters no matter what
for a new cam.

 

[Inertia]

I don't understand the "headers only help higher RPM" thing. It's bullshit. Headers wake an engine up through the entire RPM range. Why the heck do you think the factory has gone with tubular manifolds?

^^^ what he said

Headers have always been one of the most cost efficient ways of making H/P..

You can expect up to 10% h/p increase thru mufflers,, and up to 15% open.. My personal,, and customer's seat of pants experience would back that up..

Doug's un-coated, heavy guage headers are about $350 at Auto-zone with their 20% discount, (free shipping) that happens every few month's.

That's cheaper than some hi-po manifolds, and you can expect at least 10 yrs good service,, prob more if it's not a daily driver..

If you haven't dropped the front end to the ground, even $150 Summit headers will give good service.. That's 10% h/p for $150,, THAT's cheap horsepower !!

When you decide to upgrade,, you won't be limited by your exhaust ..

hope it helps

 

[rumblefish360]

Headers aside, the right cam does wonders even if the static comp ratio is low.
Comp Cams has a line design for use with exhaust manifolds.
Food for thought......

Whe headers do help with power from the bottom of the rpm scale to the top, I find your own words working against myself recomending them.
A torque converter with more stall is an excellent idea!

 

[cudaracer]

couple of facts/reminders:

Cam is already purchased and I like it.
Springs were already replaced 2K miles ago.
Headers have been decided against, at least for now. Lots of dyno charts that compare with and without that show minimal gains below 3K, and that's what I am all about. The other problem again is cost for good headers that don't leak, don't drag and don't force you to get a new small starter in an e-body. Having them piped into my dual exhaust is additional cost as well to the tune of nearly $900 including headers. Roller cam would make more sense at that point. Exhaust stays as is for now.

 

[Abodybomber]

That's o.k, for now.Tune the damn thing,ask questions as you need. Best of luck.

 

[frosty_the_punk]

I would estimate your torque to be around 320. hp to be about 285.

The best way to get more torque is more cubes. you can screw around forever and spend thousands trying to get 2-3% here and there or you can just save up your cash and do it right once! just my opinion.

 

[cudaracer]

I would estimate your torque to be around 320. hp to be about 285.

The best way to get more torque is more cubes. you can screw around forever and spend thousands trying to get 2-3% here and there or you can just save up your cash and do it right once! just my opinion.

Thanks for the tip.
Already looked into more cubes, that is not cheap either. All I am doing here as a cam swap to correct too much cam in the first place. It was my noob mistake that I seek to correct to establish what should have been. Far easier and cheaper. The added torque I seek is coming from setting up the cam power range to best take care of my smaller teen and lower rpm driving style with an automatic.

 

[cudaracer]

That's o.k, for now.Tune the damn thing,ask questions as you need. Best of luck.

thank you, I will do just that.

 

[jerry6]

Well, 3500 rpm with my 3.23 gearing is like 105mph.
I would then ask, why go any faster. In fact, where can you go any faster on the street.

So yeah, it's far more important for me to get to 105 and having a huge grin on my face, than taking it any faster in a car that does not feel safe to do so in the first place.

So you're running 33" tall tires ? 26" tire with 3.23 at 3500 rpm + 83 - 85 mph , should not be racing on the street anyway . 105 on the street is a bit dangerous , around my parts it's directly to jail .
Here is a calculator to figure out how fast you might be going
http://www.bigblockdart.com/forum/speedtire.php

 

[cudaracer]

So you're running 33" tall tires ? 26" tire with 3.23 at 3500 rpm + 83 - 85 mph , should not be racing on the street anyway . 105 on the street is a bit dangerous , around my parts it's directly to jail .
Here is a calculator to figure out how fast you might be going
http://www.bigblockdart.com/forum/speedtire.php

Oh, duh….my speedo has been wrong for so long I forgot, after putting in the 3.23 gear. My speedo was hitting over 100 when rpm’s were at 3500, which I rounded up to 105. I seemed to guess that speedo was about 8-10mph faster than actual, but, no way is it that off. What gives here.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make was that 6K rpm is not a reality with my auto.

And thanks for link

 

[jerry6]

Oh, duh….my speedo has been wrong for so long I forgot, after putting in the 3.23 gear. My speedo was hitting over 100 when rpm’s were at 3500, which I rounded up to 105. I seemed to guess that speedo was about 8-10mph faster than actual, but, no way is it that off. What gives here.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make was that 6K rpm is not a reality with my auto.

And thanks for link

All depends on what tires and gears the car came with and what's on it now . It's surprising how off some speedometers can be . You can always buy a gear for the transmission once you know tire size and gears to correct it .

 

[cudaracer]

Had the cam installed. Initial timing set to +14deg, 34 total. Runs good, up until about 85 mph, and then it was like I was running out of gas and could not go any faster. Did not really hear a ping, just falls on it's face.

Dialed it back to about +10 deg intitial, run it again, and it made it to about 95 and then hesitated.

Is this normal for this cam and my hardware?
Where should I be?

 

[crackedback]

Headers, buy Dougs D-453. ~500 at autozone for coated using a discount code.

Valve springs could be an issue with it cutting off.

Ignition, what RPM did you stop to get the total number? You must run the engine up until it stops advancing. Many say go to 2500-3000 and see what you have, which may be wrong. Lots of mopar distributors don't stop advancing until 4K or more. Sounds like it may be detonating.

Fuel, or lack of, would be another area to investigate.

 

[318willrun]

I don't understand the "headers only help higher RPM" thing. It's bullshit. Headers wake an engine up through the entire RPM range. Why the heck do you think the factory has gone with tubular manifolds?

I almost ALWAYS agree with RRR, however, every engine is different. From experience, 360 heads, bigger cam will flatten low end torque on a 318 if it has highway gears and a tight stall, and headers will do so even more. The new V6 cars have headers, but none of them have gobs of low end torque. They have more gears (giving them better gearing). For my '05 Pontiac with a 3.8 to take off like my 318 from a stop light, it will turn 3500 rpm's on shift point where my 318 would be turning 2500 rpm's. Now if you are talking a torque monster (440) or even a 360, then the benefit of headers comes in at a much lower rpm. Or a 4-speed car! Or a 2800 rpm stall with 3.55 gears! But for his driving habits, the headers are a pain not worth having, because he will not see the benefit of them.

 

[318willrun]

What are your plans for the car , sounds like you just want to putter around town , never getting over 3500 rpm , why waste the money , just leave it stock and enjoy . Have you ever put the pedal to the floor ?

Actually, a lot of truth here. He will not get the full benefit of the 308 heads either.

 

[cudaracer]

Actually, a lot of truth here. He will not get the full benefit of the 308 heads either.

ignoring the chamber volume, I thought that bigger valve, better flowing ports is like always a good thing.

 

[cudaracer]

Had the cam installed. Initial timing set to +14deg, 34 total. Runs good, up until about 85 mph, and then it was like I was running out of gas and could not go any faster. Did not really hear a ping, just falls on it's face.

Dialed it back to about +10 deg intitial, run it again, and it made it to about 95 and then hesitated.

Is this normal for this cam and my hardware?
Where should I be?

I solved the problem. It was not the timing, but in fact an old plugged up fuel filter. Have no idea how old it was. When I took it off, brown sludge poured out. Added new filter, and problem solved.

Loving the new cam, but missing the top end surge.