Yea, I was really surprised. They were loose loose
Finally get to pretend I am one of the cool kids - Holley kit swap
- Thread starter DionR
- Start date
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Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
That flange crossed my mind as well. You might be able to run a slightly undersize washer and deal with it that way. Would still act as a safety if it tried to lift, but it might move a bit before it hit the flange.
DionR
Well-Known Member
So my wife opened the garage door to get her car out and I couldn't help but step out and poke around some.
Here are some pictures of the mount and how the washer helps keep the motor locate.
I also tried to twist the motor and it feels very solid. So I don't think there is a twist that is causing the offset that I am measuring.
I also snapped some more pictures of the header to inner fender clearance and the clearance to the valve cover on the PS.
In addition, I grabbed some allen wrenches and used them to check clearances. Looks like the tightest spot on the header is about 7/64" clear and on the PS there is about 1/4" clear between the VC and the inner fender.
After looking at it some more, I am starting to wonder if Holley didn't intentionally slide the motor over 1/8" to gain some clearance for the VC. I've heard that can be a trouble spot and my brother on his '71 Demon build using Holley's billet VC had to notch his inner fender. So maybe I am good and am starting to lean towards not doing anything.
@racerjoe, how much clearance do you have on your PS valve cover? Ever tried to remove it with the motor in the car? @Dantra, too late to ask how close your VC was, but maybe you have an idea how my motor location compares to yours with the above pictures? @Map63Vette, any comparison info?
Here are some pictures of the mount and how the washer helps keep the motor locate.
I also tried to twist the motor and it feels very solid. So I don't think there is a twist that is causing the offset that I am measuring.
I also snapped some more pictures of the header to inner fender clearance and the clearance to the valve cover on the PS.
In addition, I grabbed some allen wrenches and used them to check clearances. Looks like the tightest spot on the header is about 7/64" clear and on the PS there is about 1/4" clear between the VC and the inner fender.
After looking at it some more, I am starting to wonder if Holley didn't intentionally slide the motor over 1/8" to gain some clearance for the VC. I've heard that can be a trouble spot and my brother on his '71 Demon build using Holley's billet VC had to notch his inner fender. So maybe I am good and am starting to lean towards not doing anything.
@racerjoe, how much clearance do you have on your PS valve cover? Ever tried to remove it with the motor in the car? @Dantra, too late to ask how close your VC was, but maybe you have an idea how my motor location compares to yours with the above pictures? @Map63Vette, any comparison info?
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
My PS VC is pretty close as well. I know I had to cut off the stud portion of the bolts for it to make it fit. I can't recall if I took a grinder and put a bit of a bevel on it or not though. I drove it to work today though, so I'll try to remember to grab some pictures. I did do a cam swap with the engine in the car, so the covers would have come off. They don't really need to lift up if you take the coils off first, they are pretty much flush mount with o-rings, so as long as you can get to the hardware I don't think that would be a problem. I have TTI headers and an older 5.7, but I'll have to look at the DS as well now just because I'm curious.
DionR
Well-Known Member
To be clear, I held the 1/4" allen wrench vertical with the flat against the inner fender and slid it back and forth to check the clearance. I could feel it drag on the VC, but not enough to say it had less than 1/4" clear and enough to say it didn't have more than that.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
7mm (.2755) on the PS side. The 3rd bolt will have to be walked out with a wrench but not impossible. I may actually be doing it soon because I want to ditch the stock pushrods and put some beefier ones in. As much as I find the limiter, I figured it would be in my best interest to have some valve train rigidity.
My pass side vc is probably close to that if not a little closer. Man, pop those washers off and see if it won't shift.. Looks like it will. You may just need to get some grinder action going on those washers and make the like a cam
So you are running the TTI kit? And similar clearances, i honestly think adjusting the header would be the easiest option for him, as looks like could hug the block tighter
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's an old setup though. I did my swap with an 06 5.7 the better part of 10+ years ago, so TTI was about the only option out there aside from stock manifolds. Can't complain too much though, it all bolted in fine and seem to fit okay. Definitely tight in a few places like the steering box and torsion bar, but it all clears as far as I'm aware. The coating on mine went bad pretty quick though. They were supposedly ceramic coated, but they have flaked and pitted pretty bad on the bottom end of the car.
Keep in mind that these are stainless and not everybody has the ability to weld them.
DionR
Well-Known Member
So if anything your motor is minutely closer to the centerline of the car. Interesting.
I am convinced that at least one source of the "hemi tick" is pushrods being a touch short. When they press the balls into the tubes, I think sometimes they bow the tube and end up with a pushrod that is shorter than speck.
So better pushrods make a ton of sense to me.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
The washer isn't limiting the side to side movement. The slot is only marginally larger than the bolt and is radiused at the bottom so the weight of the motor is going to center the bolt on that radius provided both mounts are located correctly. And there isn't much slop in the slot anyways. So popping the washer off alone isn't going to get me anywhere.
And based on the input here I am starting to thing I don't want it any further to the PS. I plan to see how the VC bolts come out but my gut says if I move the motor over 1/8", I won't be removing the VC's without at least jacking the motor up.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Dennys mounts have adjustment in all directions. This is kinda where it landed.
I measured the pushrods. They were all perfect. They are just thin wall.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I don't think I want to adjust the header. It might have been able to be done tighter, but I don't have a steering column in the car yet so there might be reasons.
I really think some careful hammer blows to the inner fender would open that up quite a bit. And since this is the side where the motor rocks away (assuming there is any kind of squish to the motor mounts), the gap will only get better while it is running.
DionR
Well-Known Member
To be clear, based on your measurement and my redneck method of checking, I would say our motors are in the same spot relative to the centerline of the car.
Very interesting.
I wouldn't worry the centerline.. these things fit where they fit.
mopar65
Well-Known Member
Are you talking about the long tubes?
DionR
Well-Known Member
As far as I know, Holley never sold a long tube header for the G3 swap. I am talking about the shorty swap headers.
Link is in post #36
dmopar74
Well-Known Member
Block of wood and a bfh would make quick work to fix header clearance. Diggin this thread, as I'm thinking about a hemi swap as well.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Based on these pictures, I am going to say if I moved the motor over 1/8", getting the valve cover off would be a royal pain.
I haven't set the angle on the motor yet and visually it looks too flat, which would mean that the socket and extension wouldn't fit if I tipped the back down. But currently the bolt is loose and tipping the back down wouldn't affect that. Even if I can't get on the bolt square with an extension like this, it is still better than having to smash or weld a notch into the inner fender so I can get the bolt loose if I needed to pull the VC.
Starting to think Holley did a pretty good job of locating the motor.
I haven't set the angle on the motor yet and visually it looks too flat, which would mean that the socket and extension wouldn't fit if I tipped the back down. But currently the bolt is loose and tipping the back down wouldn't affect that. Even if I can't get on the bolt square with an extension like this, it is still better than having to smash or weld a notch into the inner fender so I can get the bolt loose if I needed to pull the VC.
Starting to think Holley did a pretty good job of locating the motor.
True, luckily i have fabricators that work for my company so i just con them into working on my car. However would be pretty cheal if u took it to someone to have it done
O yep thats a good point, i am running power steering as well. Going to be interesting fitting all that. As dont think manual conversion is an option as getting manual column in Australia would be difficult haha. Watching very keenly mate as i have the same set up, have all the parts just not at this stage of build yet
DionR
Well-Known Member
You know you have to run a Borgeson box, right? And Holley has hard lines for the box that they say have to be installed before dropping the motor in.
One thing I would suggest is spend some time making sure the Holley mounts fit into the saddles before dropping the motor in. Mine were too tight to get them in and I had to open up the ears a bit with a rubber mallet. And I still didn't get them fitting right so while I got it the motor in, it is going to take a prybar to get the mounts out of the k-frame saddles.
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