front end alignment problems.

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XtechX

XtechX

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Edmore, Michigan
The alignment guy couldnt get my 68 barracuda to align correctly. He said it was like my passenger strut bar was too short?? The rt disc assembly and control arms were off, I guess? The top part of the assembly needed to go forward and the lower part needed to go back, like an inch to be correct. Unless the unibody is bent some, I dont know what else to do. Anyone else ever had this type of problem or even unnderstand what I'm talking about?...lol
Any comments or suggestions woud be great. A few details: The car has a disc brake conversion on it ( I think it's off from a dart) atleast thats my guess ( I didnt build it) stock K member as far as I can tell, everything else is stock appearing and everything is new, suspension wise. It has a flaming river power rack and pinion under it.
 
XtechX said:
The alignment guy couldnt get my 68 barracuda to align correctly. He said it was like my passenger strut bar was too short?? The rt disc assembly and control arms were off, I guess? The top part of the assembly needed to go forward and the lower part needed to go back, like an inch to be correct. Unless the unibody is bent some, I dont know what else to do. Anyone else ever had this type of problem or even unnderstand what I'm talking about?...lol
Any comments or suggestions woud be great. A few details: The car has a disc brake conversion on it ( I think it's off from a dart) atleast thats my guess ( I didnt build it) stock K member as far as I can tell, everything else is stock appearing and everything is new, suspension wise. It has a flaming river power rack and pinion under it.
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Go and measure the flange to flange distance on each strut rod. There are two lengths 67-72 and 73-76. Not much difference but there is some.

Also do you have the same type strut rod bushings on left and right side? There are different thicknesses sold.

Biggest difference would be if a B/E body strut rod installed on your car. My originals has stripped threads. So I had someone sent me a replacement, but it was a B/E body one. Too long!
 
The strut rods measure approximately 23 inches in total length. From where the rod exits the lca to where it enters the k member is 16 1/2 inches. The rods look like theyre similar but I couldnt tell you if they were from an a,b,e body car. This is my first mopar and am still learnig. I hope the measurements help.
The alignment guy said It looked like I needed close to an inch longer rod to put things where they go to be straight.
 
What numbers was the alignment rack showing? I have problems believing alignment techs when it comes to old chrylser torsion bar suspensions. There have been way too many misaligned cars on what is really not that complicated a system. Is he trying to set your caster at a negative value as per the factory settings. Does he know how to adjust camber/caster cam bolts? Was ride height set properly? Were the bushings tightened in the air causing everything to bind up.
 
The torsion bars have dropped about an inch, they wont seem to stay put even when I have tried to adjust them before. I seen him bounce the front end a couple times to seat them too. Still wont stay ( that is one problem). The shop says hes been doing alignments for many years but its not even close. He never claimed it was ( in his defense) but the right wheel is leaning in and toed out from the looks of it. What a mess!!! The car leans hard to the sides when turning and throws everything out of whack too. Again, everything is new uinder the car and has new edelbrock struts, maybe a sway bar might help too, after its aligned right.
 
You say you are running edelbrock struts. Why are you running struts on torsion bar suspension? I would take a tape measure to frame k member, spindle to rear axle center and really inspect every thing. Sounds like its been punched in face some time in its life and LC is bent. Take hard look at cross member where torsion bars attach and make sure its not rusted. Something is surely bent you just have to find it.
 
Look at the hex on the rear of the torsion bars to see if they are turning, causing the car to keep dropping. Bouncing the front does nothing. When the tires go up and down, they scrub. They must be on functioning skid plates or the car must be moved around or driven to settle the things into place, then check again. Check the front strut rod bushings to see if they are fully seated and the same left and right. Measure from a reference point on the K-frame by the strut rod back to the lower ball joint to see if they are the same. Compare lower control arms side to side to see if they are in the same place on the pivot. Poly bushings don't hold them from moving fore and aft, or the stock ones may not be fully installed and seated. If one adjustment is way off, it can cause other ones to be way off, too, like if the toe is really bad, when the car moves forward, it can pull the bottom of the tire inboard or outboard, changing camber.
 
Yes, check the rear torsion bar mount. Shocks don't mean crap on what you have. If the strut bushings aren't worn, look at ball joints, tie rods, etc.
the younger guys hace no clue how to align an oider car- their computer has no data.
 
Check the welded sleeve @ the backside of the x-member where the LCA pin goes thru and be sure it's not broken or split.
 
I don't know if these will be at all useful to help me figure out whats wrong??
 

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Are the torsion bars original to the car, or new replacements? Old high mileage bars can fatigue becoming weak and unable to hold constant ride height. The other is caster, it’s not set by changing position of lower control arm by tightening or loosening nut holding strut.

Once technician sets ride height by FSM method, camber and caster are set by two eccentric bolts holding upper control arm to frame, and toe is set by adjusting position of tie rod ends.

Sometimes, more often than not, there is not enough adjustment to obtain satisfactory positive caster, the setting that keeps car easily going down the road in a straight line without sawing the steering wheel constantly, or in other words a stable non wondering feel.

Camber is tilt of the wheel in relation to vertical when looking head on at front of car; top of tire laying in is negative (0 to -.5 degrees is good); top of tire pointing out is bad causes poor handling. Camber when out of adjustment will wear tires, as well as incorrect toe.

You have to determine what is out of whack; it is weak torsion bars, bent frame, not enough caster adjustment, or a technician that doesn’t know his elbow from his ***…

I have to second the inept technician previously brought up, I have had my fill of these bozos they are everywere.
 
I'm not sure if the torsion bars are new replacements or not, but everything else is new, so probably. I did some quick measurements lastnight from the grease fitting on the lower ball joint to a hole on the front frame rail, and it looks different from side to side by a 1/4". I'm going to take it to an old timer frame, and alignment guy and see what he can do later this week, as soon as I can get a hold of a car trailer. I took the car to a car show 3 miles away yesterday but Im not crazy about driving 15 + miles with the wheels the way they are.
 
mcnoople said:
ignore this it was already answered.
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I'm not trying to start a fight here, but the last time I checked, this was MY thread. IMO, telling people to ignore my thread is equivalent to shuuushing me, and that is rather rude. The people so far that have been giving me advice have been great, I still have not figured out totaly what's wrong exactly, but they have given me some good insight and I'm sure they have me headed in the direction. So, if anyone has any other productive ideas or comments to add, I would appreciate it.
I'm leaning toward the RMS adjustable strut rods and maybe the tubular uca's if they are needed too for a street car.????
 
I think mcnoople noticed he repeated someone's answer, so he edited his to say ignore it.
 
I had a simalier problem to correct it I had to go with aftermarket upper control arms and adjustable strut rods. The problem with just going with the rods is he'll never get the proper camber/caster without the aftermarket control arms. They give the front end a different geometry to make it fall within spec. I spent almost a year and a half chasing this problem to fix it the right way. Good luck!
 
375inStroke said:
I think mcnoople noticed he repeated someone's answer, so he edited his to say ignore it.
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Kinda what he said. I asked a question that the original poster had already answered and I had not noticed. It will let you edit your own post but not delete. Sorry if it was misintrepreted. Reading my post again I can see how it can be misintrepreted. Without a doubt this is a good legitimate thread. I hope you get an answer
 
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