Fuel Tank Question: '60 Val

[Gadabout]

12K later, Mabelline is up and running. It is just shy of an as-new restoration. Everything busted has been replaced with New Old Stock or a good facsimile. The fuel tank was rusted from the inside out, so not finding any, we opted to coat the inside. First few tank fulls, everything was fine. Didn't leak a drop.

Then, yesterday, gasoline started draining all over the pad while I was filling it. I'm not sure where the leak is coming from, but about half the tank drained before it found its level.

Doesn't seem like a great idea to try resealing it (or does it?) so is there a fuel tank out there? I find tanks on eBay for a '64 to - '67 that are pretty basic, and look like they would comfortable fit around the spare tire well, this before emissions equipment made its debut.

Question, can a '64 tank fit??

 

[MV8]

Probably. Compare the overall dimensions to those listed for the newer tank. Different fuel level sender and location. There may be subtle differences to deal with.

 

[Professor Fate]

Are you sure it's not the sending unit gasket or filler tube seal?
Aftermarket sending unit lock rings are notorious for being incorrect (too thin and flimsy) and leaking all over the place.

 

[Gadabout]

Are you sure it's not the sending unit gasket or filler tube seal?
Aftermarket sending unit lock rings are notorious for being incorrect (too thin and flimsy) and leaking all over the place.

Until we pull the tank, can't say where its coming from. The sending unit was new, and it didn't leak the first couple of fill ups.

I decided the roll the dice and purchase a new old stock tank for a 64 - 67 Valiant 200. If it doesn't work, I can return it. Alternatively, there is a fabrication ship in El Paso but the cost will be quite heavy, which I will do, as a last resort.

The fellow at the fabrication shop did say the sealants routinely fail as the ethanol dissolves it, so he says. He says that ethanol also plays Hell on aluminum, as on the atomic level, aluminum is porous, which is why it is so light.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I looked at pictures of both tanks online and it appears to me the 60-62 tanks are the same shape and might interchange with the 63 and up tanks. The only major difference appears to be where the sending unit is located. Maybe @slantsixdan can chime in and let us know for sure.

 

[slantsixdan]

There is no '60-'62 tank. The '60-'61 tank fits those years only. The '62 tank is that year only—the spare tire well in the trunk floor is a very different shape/size in the '60-'61 versus '62 cars. People have swapped '63-up A-body tanks into '62s with some cleverness, but the '62 and '63+ tanks all are shaped to accommodate a round spare-tire well, not the big square one in the '60-'61 cars.

That's a real nice-lookin' medium-early-build '60 V200 you've got there, with the sharkfin chrome bits atop the fenders!

 

[RustyRatRod]

There is no '60-'62 tank. The '60-'61 tank fits those years only. The '62 tank is that year only—the spare tire well in the trunk floor is a very different shape/size in the '60-'61 versus '62 cars. People have swapped '63-up A-body tanks into '62s with some cleverness, but the '62 and '63+ tanks all are shaped to accommodate a round spare-tire well, not the big square one in the '60-'61 cars.

That's a real nice-lookin' medium-early-build '60 V200 you've got there, with the sharkfin chrome bits atop the fenders!

Thanks Dan. Muchas grassy ***. So to dumb it down, does that mean the later (available) tanks cannot be used in the 60 model cars?

 

[slantsixdan]

I haven't held metal to metal about it, but yeah, barring a miracle it means that. You're looking at either extensive rework of the trunk floor (expensive and difficult) or a custom fuel tank (expensive and easy).

 

[Gadabout]

Are you sure it's not the sending unit gasket or filler tube seal?
Aftermarket sending unit lock rings are notorious for being incorrect (too thin and flimsy) and leaking all over the place.

Well, well, well Professor Fate. After pulling the tank, and it did look pretty thrashed from 64 years of road spray, I went about doing everything but investigating the leak, which I presumed was major.

Since there are no good condition 1960 Valiant gas tanks lying around, anywhere, I looked into contriving a fuel tank from scratch from a place that does that locally, but they didn't want it because of the curve in the tank for the wrap-around of the spare tire well. Then I had the bright idea of why make a curve, when a smaller dimension right angled bracket shaped fabricated tank would accomplish the same end- until I crawled under on my arthritic knees and realized the space between axle and well was impossibly small; no doubt why they made the tank a wrap around.

Then we thought about putting a fuel cell into the very large spare well. That looked promising.

Just for a curiosity, and since I had the tank off anyways, I filled it with water. And filled. And filled. At some point the water level exceeded the inlet port and water started to back out- but it kept on and on and on after I had shut the water down. It was almost as if it was doing a reverse siphoning effect. Also, a little trickle of water ran down from the level of the sending unit.

So, why it allowed me to fill the tank on several occasions before without this over-wash (of gasoline) I can only guess. Bad filler gasket, as Professor Fate asks? Therefore, if I can fill it with maybe ten gallons (15 gallon tank? Maybe??) that would negate the leakage problem, excepting for sloshing while accelerating or stopping.

I don't like the idea of a twenty gallon unsecured cell in the trunk. God forbid I wreck, or get hit, then I will be getting a gasoline bath. Or should I just say to Heck with it and go with the cell? That tank does not look to hold more than 15 gallons if filled to the very top- and it reverse siphons out if overfilled.

Advice please?

 

[Gadabout]

Probably. Compare the overall dimensions to those listed for the newer tank. Different fuel level sender and location. There may be subtle differences to deal with.

And there was. The '64 tank is 17 inches wider than the '60 tank. The '60 tank, now out, seems to be impossibly tiny for a car of this size, but there it is. The wrap-around feature is apparently a compensation for the its small size and the enormous spare tire well, that appears much in excess of the diameter of a tire.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Take the original tank to a radiator shop and have them rework it.

 

[MV8]

I see what looks like a small vent port on the filler end. Maybe the leak was there (the hose) since you filled the neck and pipe at the station.
I'd also pull the sender and clean the o ring seat area well.

If you can't find any problems, put it back in, leave the car raised for easy access to inspect, and refill. Add a little at a time until you see a leak and trace it back to the source. Blotting with paper (versus a wet finger) will make it easier to trace. Home Depot has an orange siphon hand pump for about $20 that can be extended with clear hose over the pumps hose. They is also a "jiggler" check valve siphon that can be found online, but I found the orange pump adequate.

 

[bcschief]

Anybody have a parts book to get a part number and then see if any of the NOS dealers might have one.

 

[Gadabout]

Take the original tank to a radiator shop and have them rework it.

That never occurred to me or anyone else. Great idea. However, I've already committed to a fuel cell installation. I'm not happy about having a trunk full of gasoline, but this appears to be the most pragmatic way to move forward, having not heard of your solution.

The main two issues remain are the filler tube grommet. How to size that reliably is beyond anyone's guess. The other issue, that maybe the radiator shop could repair, is the possibly rotten metal at one of the screw holes for the sending unit. The grommet issue appears particularly troubling.

The odd "reverse siphon" effect that occurred when filling the tank up, and having it continually pour out liquid is caused by internal tank baffles, I am told.

 

[RustyRatRod]

That never occurred to me or anyone else. Great idea. However, I've already committed to a fuel cell installation. I'm not happy about having a trunk full of gasoline, but this appears to be the most pragmatic way to move forward, having not heard of your solution.

The main two issues remain are the filler tube grommet. How to size that reliably is beyond anyone's guess. The other issue, that maybe the radiator shop could repair, is the possibly rotten metal at one of the screw holes for the sending unit. The grommet issue appears particularly troubling.

The odd "reverse siphon" effect that occurred when filling the tank up, and having it continually pour out liquid is caused by internal tank baffles, I am told.

It's your car. Kinda dumb to lock yourself into something you don't like. Have at it.