gear lube vs. tranny fluid

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aaron68s

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I hear mixed emotions on which one to run in an 833, what are some pros and cons of both?? Thanks Aaron:burnout:
 
Not many pros to trans fluid unless your in a very cold climate or your looking for every last .001. I use Jamie Passion fluid which is like a 5/20 weight in thickness, I hear good things about synchromesh, and redline MTF. Stay away from g5 rear end lube.
 
my 1969 shop manual recommends dextron ATF for both 3 and 4 speed manual transmissions
 
The syncromesh fluid is hard to beat.

I'd use 80-90 wt gear oil in a big truck or old lady car, but not in a performance car.

Syncromesh is kind of like an updated ATF for stick shifts.
It provides the advantages of a light oil but with better lubrication qualities.
 
Brewer's recommended I use 80w-90 GL4. I found Sta-Lube 85w-90 GL4 and used that. Trans shifts amazing.
 
Used Passon's stuff for a while then went to the Pennzoil syncromesh swear its the same--Steve
 
I use Royal Purple 75/140 in mine. I like the thicker oil with higher hp cars so it cushions the gears more.
 
ir3333 said:
my 1969 shop manual recommends dextron ATF for both 3 and 4 speed manual transmissions
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Exactly ^^^^^^ but no matter how hard you try to tell people, they always gotta latch onto the latest and greatest gimmicks. I say let um waste their money.
 
Years ago I had a automatic trans that shuttered in certain overdrive speed/load conditions. After finding it had the wrong fluid in it, I had to ask how the fluid could make a difference. I learned that the shutter was still there but I wouldn't feel it.
The molecules of modern fluids do cushion and absorb the feel and sound of moving parts. Do they reduce wear and/or extend part life ? Time will tell.
 
I run 20w non -detergent oil in my 833 /tried 90w to hard to shift in cooler weather,automatic fluid to thin in summer and I could hear the trans bearings singing ,maybe the alum case made it worse.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Exactly ^^^^^^ but no matter how hard you try to tell people, they always gotta latch onto the latest and greatest gimmicks. I say let um waste their money.
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The trick is to take advantage of better lubricating technology without falling for the gimmicks.
There isn't a reason in the world to allow more wear just because a 40 year old book says to use what was available 40 years ago.
 
I'm running atf in mine right now, seems to shift smooth but it doesn't like to shift down into 1st gear unless I'm damn near stopped. Is that normal for an 833?
 
Ive never heard of ATF in a stick. Seems like a terrible idea. I've always used whatever decently priced gear oil I could get my hands on.
 
I have always used 80-90 gear oil...Using ATF or Synthetics can cause gears to grind on down shifting because the syncro's are spinning in the low friction oils. 80-90 allows more "shock" on the gear security and some weight that slows down the syncro's allowing gears to engage instead of clashing. My buddy with his 67 Hemi 4spd GTX found this out after a re-build. He thought he would use what was recommended from stock.....went back to 80-90 and never a prob.
 
Try gear lube in a World Class T5 and you'll be rebuilding it soon. The synchros used in those are designed specifically for ATF and gear lube does not play well with them. They have a metal tag on the side of them above the fill & drain ports clearly stating "Dexron II".
 
/6 Matt said:
Ive never heard of ATF in a stick. Seems like a terrible idea. I've always used whatever decently priced gear oil I could get my hands on.
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ATF is common in standard transmissions, more so it seems in newer transmissions.
I know some of the bigger Chev trucks with standards in them demand ATF to lubricate and cool correctly.
The general rule that I go by would be, if it's got looser tolerances and uses ball bearings instead of needle bearings then a mid thickness (30-50wt) oil be used.
If it uses needle bearings for things like input and output shafts, or counter (lower shaft) gear, then ATF.

The thing is, the OEM style transmissions we use have a fair combination of both.
The main difference is that the counter gear uses pretty darn big needle bearings so as far as lubrication goes ATF or gear oil either one can work fine.
In my own oppinion the transmissions we use in these cars can be "adjusted" in the way they shift as well as how they downshift simply by changing the fluid viscosity, without much concern for damaging the trans.
On the other side of the coin a newer trans could lock up solid if you put gear oil in it because the oil was too thick to get to where it needs to be fast enough, or with enough volume.



aaron68s said:
I'm running atf in mine right now, seems to shift smooth but it doesn't like to shift down into 1st gear unless I'm damn near stopped. Is that normal for an 833?
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It's not normal but not uncommon.
It's probably either a worn syncro ring or the fluid.

As stated the thinner fluid can cause issue's due to lack of consistancy to stop the gear from spinning so it can mesh up (1st in your case)
First gear is the smallest gear (physically) and is the hardest one to stop because it has less surface area for the syncro ring to drag against.
Most syncro ring wear is limited to second gear, being as that ring is usually the most and hardest used.
 
aaron68s said:
I'm running atf in mine right now, seems to shift smooth but it doesn't like to shift down into 1st gear unless I'm damn near stopped. Is that normal for an 833?
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The 1972 Dart Owner's Manual recommends a downshift speed from 15 to 0 mph with the 4-speed. I don't think the downshift issue you describe is peculiar to the 833. The issue isn't getting out of second as much as it is picking up first. That's an issue of matching the synchronizer to the speed of the first gear set. I know that's really the job of the synchronizer. But given the jump between the first gear ratio and the second gear ratio, the synchro needs help. That's why the compu/manu/matics on some high end vehicles have a "rev matching" feature. (That and to make some of the dweebs that drive them not look like complete imbeciles.)
 
TrailBeast said:
The trick is to take advantage of better lubricating technology without falling for the gimmicks.
There isn't a reason in the world to allow more wear just because a 40 year old book says to use what was available 40 years ago.
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Then use Dextron-Mercon6. LOL
 
RustyRatRod said:
Then use Dextron-Mercon6. LOL
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It's interesting how people WAY overthink things like oils.
Some are better than others, but when it comes down to it there are only three that matter.

Engine oil
Gear oil
French fry oil (which by the way would work just fine in out TF 727's and 904's)

I'm not that literal about it, but I know I use good quality oils for what is required mechanically and duty wise.
 
Well, I have used 80-90 in all my 833's for 30 years, My friend and his Hemi... it was a rebuilt 833, he thought he would go new school and try syn, clashed like crazy! He replaced the oil with 80-90.... perfect from then on. This on a suggestion from a good friend of ours who is lead mech at a Mopar dealership. Keep in mind I am just referring to 833 4 speed....not a fancy *** 5 or 6 speed.
 
marksmopar1 said:
Well, I have used 80-90 in all my 833's for 30 years, My friend and his Hemi... it was a rebuilt 833, he thought he would go new school and try syn, clashed like crazy! He replaced the oil with 80-90.... perfect from then on. This on a suggestion from a good friend of ours who is lead mech at a Mopar dealership. Keep in mind I am just referring to 833 4 speed....not a fancy *** 5 or 6 speed.
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Yes and also the guys that tear these down day in and day out like Brewers and Passon
 
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