Gear Vendors question

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dcassellia

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Hi All I have a 1971 Scamp with a 440 and 727 my tire size is 28inch and I have 391 gears
I'm thinking about going with a gear vendors unit because I want to do events like power
tour and so on. It was more of a track and around town car so any thoughts ? I an currently
going over the car and then painting

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IMG_6899.JPG
 
I'm running a Gear Vendor in my 73 Scamp with a 408, 904 and had 4:10's and ran that for 3 years but switched to 3:23's.
Did a 2,400-mile trip with it last summer and worked out very well. I could do 75MPH all day.
Hope this chart helps.

IMG_20231226_084507646.jpg
 
dcassellia said:
Hi All I have a 1971 Scamp with a 440 and 727 my tire size is 28inch and I have 391 gears
I'm thinking about going with a gear vendors unit because I want to do events like power
tour and so on. It was more of a track and around town car so any thoughts ? I an currently
going over the car and then painting

View attachment 1716183178

View attachment 1716183179
Click to expand...

I helped a friend put one in his 71 Dart and we had to cut the hump and raise a section right under his bench seat 2 inches to keep the pinion angle right.
 
TrailBeast said:
I helped a friend put one in his 71 Dart and we had to cut the hump and raise a section right under his bench seat 2 inches to keep the pinion angle right.
Click to expand...
I thought but don't know (That's why I'm watching) that it fits with some hammering in part of the hump. Then you have to set pinion angle at rearend by shimming or perch relocation? I'm contemplating putting one in my 68 340/4spd.
 
 
So potentially speaking here, it might be easier to get a B body A833 for the 4 speed setup to get the vendors tailhousing and save the A body unit for other projects.

The case for A and B are the same.....ya?

I apologize i am now realizing the OP is running an auto.....stick em up!!

lo siento.

So, @TrailBeast .... was your friends an auto? The conversion that required the tunnel massage.

EDIT: AND @TrailBeast ....how much of your massaging was caused by possible shimming of engine (changing angle because of header fitment etc etc) Basically if Gear Vendors is saying "a couple of whacks and yer good" and you had to cut and splice, was it because of other changes per say.
 
Last edited:
Back in 2002/2003 ish, I installed a Gvod behind my A833, in a 68 Barracuda.
It only takes a few whacks to the hump, and then the whole entire hump becomes the restriction. Since it still did not fit; From there I had a choice to either cut the hump out with the Tunnel hoop and re-engineer it, or drop the tail of the trans.
I opted for the latter by using a spool mount cross-member, and dropping the spool down as far as it went. For the rest, I dropped the entire cross member a tad, by slotting the holes.
Then I went to the engine, with the idea to lower it, to restore the driveshaft/pinion angle. I saw that my 72/older steering would not work and so I switched to 73 up steering for added clearance. Then I readjusted the engine mounts, to drop it as low as worked without having to smash the TTIs too bad.
Since my car is lowered, the pinion angle wasn't too bad an issue, but yes, I had to work it a bit.
So, what @TrailBeast said is correct and is what most people are gonna have to do.

I went with the GV because I planned to use it as a splitter. With a Commando 4-gear, this gives me EIGHT useable but not sequential gears, which I use in various ways.
Since the Commando runs well this way with 3.23s/3.55s; for a starter-gear of 9.98/10.97, and a hiway gear of 2.52/2.77, this combo works very well for me.
But
If I had an automatic requiring a 3.91 rear gear, I would have installed one of either the A500/A518 units. With a .69 od, you can run just about any rear gear up to about 4.30s with 27" tires.

IMO, if I had an automatic, installing the GVod is at least as much hassle as installing one of the Mopar units, and with the Mopar, you don't have the restrictions associated with the GV, and, you get the .69od verses the .78GVod. That corresponds to about 13% rear gear. And you'll never break the Mopar overdrive.
What using the Mopar unit means, is that you can put Second gear exactly where it needs to be, to max out your street attitude, and Not have to worry about your cruise rpm.
Or in your case, with a 440, you can put Third gear, lol, where you need it to be.

To the guy who asked about changing the A833 A-body m/s ;
Yes the A-body shaft is too short. It is the only part that has to be swapped out tho, as the GVod comes with it's own adapter tail, in aluminum. Unless maybe you have a six-cylinder tail, then you'll need a bigger rear bearing for the GV Adapter unit..
Whereas the B-body has the right M/S already, and yes the cases are the same, except the retainers are different, but that can be changed.
However, swapping mainshafts is easy cuz the whole 4-speed has to come apart anyway, to install the GV tail.
When installing the GVod you will need Chevy Speed-O gears to adapt the unit for the new Driveshaft rpm. There is no work-around for this. GV supplies what ever you need for the First install, but if you swap the rear end, you will need a new matching Chevy gear.
GV offers a deep-sump for their unit, which I opted for, knowing my unit was gonna be working overtime as a splitter, behind my 4-gear.
And, it requires a specific oil, so buy extra.
The driveshaft gets real short with the GV, around 3ft IIRC. This makes setting the pinion angle with the body at the usual HotRod stance, and the engine in the stock location, somewhere between tricky and impossible.
But, if I would have had more money, I would have installed a regular 5-speed manual.
Or, to tell the truth, knowing what I now know, I wouldda just installed less cam, less gear, and more cubes, or just a longer stroke, and still installed the Commando.
For me, it was a fantastic option,
but
if I had an auto, I would swap to a Mopar overdrive, with a well-matched stall. Despite having just four gears, the Torque-Convertor acts like an infinitely variable two-speed (with WOT ratios somewhere between 2.0 and 1.1) and the lock-up is worth near a half a gear. So when you add all that up, it's like having 5.5 gears.
 
Last edited:
AJ/FormS said:
Back in 2002/2003 ish, I installed a Gvod behind my A833, in a 68 Barracuda.
It only takes a few whacks to the hump, and then the whole entire hump becomes the restriction. Since it still did not fit; From there I had a choice to either cut the hump out with the Tunnel hoop and re-engineer it, or drop the tail of the trans.
I opted for the latter by using a spool mount cross-member, and dropping the spool down as far as it went. For the rest, I dropped the entire cross member a tad, by slotting the holes.
Then I went to the engine, with the idea to lower it, to restore the driveshaft/pinion angle. I saw that my 72/older steering would not work and so I switched to 73 up steering for added clearance. Then I readjusted the engine mounts, to drop it as low as worked without having to smash the headers too bad.
Since my car is lowered, the pinion angle wasn't too bad an issue, but yes, I had to work it a bit.
So, what @TrailBeast said is correct and is what most people are gonna have to do.

I went with the GV because I planned to use it as a splitter. With a Commando 4-gear, this gives me EIGHT useable but not sequential gears, which I use in various ways.
Since the Commando runs well this way with 3.23s/3.55; for a starter-gear of 9.98/10.97, and a hiway gear of 2.52/2.77, this combo works very well for me.
But
If I had an automatic requiring a 3.91 rear gear, I would have installed one of either the A500/A518 units. With a .69 od, you can run just about any rear gear up to about 4.30s with 27" tires.

IMO, if an automatic, installing the GVod is at least as much hassle as installing one of the Mopar units, and with the Mopar, you don't have the restrictions associated with the GV, and, you get the .69od verses the .78GVod. That corresponds to about 13% rear gear. And you'll never break the Mopar overdrive.
What usding the Mopar unit means,is that you can put Second gear exactly where it needs to be, to max out your street attitude, and Not have to worry about your cruise rpm.
Or in your case, with a 440, you can put Third gear, lol, where you need it to be.

To the guy who asked about changing the A833 A-body m/s ;
Yes the A-body shaft is too short. It is the only part that has to be swapped out tho, as the GVod comes with it's own adapter tail, in aluminum. Unless maybe you have a six-cylinder tail, then you'll need a bigger rear bearing for the GV Adapter unit..
Whereas the B-body has the right M/S already, and yes the cases are the same, except the retainers are different, but that can be changed. Swapping mainshafts is easy cuz the whole 4-speed has to come apart anyway, to install the GV tail.
When installing the GVod you will need Chevy Speed-O gears to adapt the unit for the new Driveshaft rpm. There is no work-around for this. GV supplies what ever you need for the First install, but if you swap the rear end, you will need a new matching Chevy gear.
GV offers a deep-sump for their unit, which I opted for, knowing my unit was gonna be working overtime as a splitter, behind my 4-gear.
And, it requires a specific oil, so buy extra.
For me, it was a fantastic option, but if I had an auto, I would swap to a Mopar overdrive. And
if I had more money, I would have installed a regular 5-speed manual.
Or, to tell the truth, knowing what I now know, I wouldda just installed less cam, less gear, and more cubes, or just a longer stroke.
Click to expand...
Good info!
Thanks!

but kind of a short reply for you......are you feeling ok?:lol::poke:Just kidding, Happy boxing day to you sir.
 
I've installed more then a few.
Minor mods lol. Mopar Tim as Hoppy suggested did his in his 65 dart major tunnel mods.
First one I did was my 68 gto 4spd. 20 years ago.
It's not difficult if you have a lift. Just a lot more then a few bumps on the floor pan.
Good product and fun to drive.
 
Check out Wilcap adapters. I used one of their adapters to put a 200-4R behind my 340 in my 73 Sport. Fits without cutting the tunnel at all.
 
Kendog 170 said:
I thought but don't know (That's why I'm watching) that it fits with some hammering in part of the hump. Then you have to set pinion angle at rearend by shimming or perch relocation? I'm contemplating putting one in my 68 340/4spd.
Click to expand...

clementine said:
So potentially speaking here, it might be easier to get a B body A833 for the 4 speed setup to get the vendors tailhousing and save the A body unit for other projects.

The case for A and B are the same.....ya?

I apologize i am now realizing the OP is running an auto.....stick em up!!

lo siento.

So, @TrailBeast .... was your friends an auto? The conversion that required the tunnel massage.

EDIT: AND @TrailBeast ....how much of your massaging was caused by possible shimming of engine (changing angle because of header fitment etc etc) Basically if Gear Vendors is saying "a couple of whacks and yer good" and you had to cut and splice, was it because of other changes per say.
Click to expand...

The trans on the friends car is a 727 behind a 440.

I guess if a person could massage 2 inches of clearance with a hammer we could say that could be the way to do it.

Not cutting and restructuring the floor would have caused a severe down angle to the trans tail, so to keep the engine and trans at the correct angle the floor had to be clearanced.

The car had new motor and trans mounts.
 
Yar nam dol said:
I've installed more then a few.
Minor mods lol. Mopar Tim as Hoppy suggested did his in his 65 dart major tunnel mods.
First one I did was my 68 gto 4spd. 20 years ago.
It's not difficult if you have a lift. Just a lot more then a few bumps on the floor pan.
Good product and fun to drive.
Click to expand...
Would you mind describing the floor mods? Some claim whacks with a big hammer, some claim major surgery. In my case, considering for a 69 Swinger 4 speed. Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Some of you guys had me confused with chatter about 4 speeds and 904 transmissions, so I went back and read the opening post. The guy has a Scamp with a 440 and 727.
 
supertruck said:
Check out Wilcap adapters. I used one of their adapters to put a 200-4R behind my 340 in my 73 Sport. Fits without cutting the tunnel at all.
Click to expand...
I don't like the crudeness and size of the Wilcap adapter and used a bolt-on bellhousing instead to fit a 2004R. I did have to modify the torsion bar crossmember, but not the floor pan itself.

The 2004R swap is one of the best mod's I've done to my '68 Barracuda, and it's definitely the best performing transmissions I've ever driven. I even opted to for a lock-up torque converter feature, which when combined with a high quality 3800rpm stall torque converter makes it perform like a 5 speed automatic.

I found the gear vendor's overdrive ratio was not worth doing for what I ended up with in terms of rpm drops on the freeway.

Heart (Medium).png
 

@ clementine said:​

"but kind of a short reply for you......are you feeling ok?"
Ok then, for you;
Part 2;
The 200R4 has pretty good ratios and splits. The ratios are
2.78-1.57-1.00-.67 od and splits of .56-.64-.67 ..Thus the total range is
2.78/.67= 4.15 this is exceptionally good
and like @jbc426 said; with the convertor, that will act like a 5-speed LU

The A500/.69od by itself would be;
2.74/.69= 3.97 . which is also hard to beat; splits are .56-.65-.69

The GVod added to an A999 would be
2.74/.78= 3.51 . not so good. but the splits are .56-.65-.78
-----------------------------------------
for you 4-speed guys;
The A/F body, overdrive box, together with a GVod, is a hoot!
It has the added bonus that you can split every gear! The ratios are;
3.09-2.41-1.67-1.30-1.00-.78od-.57od yes SEVEN useable ratios.
Giving a range of; 3.09/.57= 5.42.
the splits are .78-.69-.78-.77-.78-.73
I optimized this with a rear gear of 3.23s to put, top of First-over
at 6000=62 mph; that's just one, lightning-fast, electric shift.
In .78 overdrive, this makes 65@2040 & 75@2350; and
in Second overdrive, 85@1950.
The starter gear is still 3.09 x 3.23=9.98.
The nice part about this combo is that you can run absolutely any rear gear you could want. I ran it with 5.38s, and with 4.88s, and settled at 4.30s for a while .
4.30s had a nice parade gear of 13.29, that allowed 3.5 mph @580 rpm.
and 4.30s got me 60MPH at 5400 in Second Gear.
Eventually I installed 3.23s, and ran a 223*cam so it was spot on for low-ET.. This would be a near perfect combo for a modest 318.
However when that 223* cam died, I upcammed just one size, and immediately I lost the bottom end torque that I had come to appreciate the 223 cam for.
and, I now found the standard ratios in the wrong spots most of the time, and splitting ALL the time, just gets old. I needed more gear, and 3.55s were not enough. So

Next up was;
The A833Commando/GVod, with a total range of 3.09/.78= 3.96
This is still more ratio than my hi-compression 360 needs, but it's a lot of fun. At the time of install, I had recently up-cammed to a 230* cam; and with the previous trans combo, I had lost enough very low rpm torque as to be unacceptable. Not long afterwards 3.23s went in, cruising at 65mph became 2040, the starter gear was 9.98, and 60mph became 5820 in First-over; just about right for that new 230* cam..
Eventually I went back to the 3.55s for a slightly sweeter parade gear; and with those, the car went 93 in the Eighth@6160rpm in Second-over, again, one shift in the main box, and two electric-shifts; totaling four good ratios
with splits of .. .78-.80-.78
I figure, that's pretty hard to beat;
Shifting at 5800 the Rs drop to ~4600, so the powerband needs to be just 1200 rpm and the 230* cam hits the marks nicely; altho, I liked the 223* cam better.

For those that might balk at the modest '78 ratio of the GVod, I offer this;
In routine shifting, as in getting up to hiway speed, I usually shift 1-2-3 and then GVod, and finally into Fourth-od. This gives me a short .78 Fourth and a long .71 Fifth.
In practice, the ratios are; 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od
splits look like; .62-.73-.78-.71 (This ratio is pretty close to most overdrive units, except the 200R4)
Down-shifting to pass someone doing 55, is a hoot!
55 in 4-od with 3.55s is ~1900rpm. Popping down to third gear, the Rs jump up to ~3400, where my HO367 has already got pretty good torque. But you know, Second gear will get me ~4700 , and the electric-shift is hot on it's heels. So if you see me going by you at 80 mph, the 3"pipes singing a happy song, just know that I'm still in Second gear; listen for the tires barking on the electric-shift into 2-od, lol. Ok nobody needed to know that. lol.

If I had a 440/727, in a stock wheel-well short wb Scamp;
I think I would just gear it for hiway, and stall it up a lil for take-off.
But if the take-off was still too soft, I'd put some decent pressure to it. Like 185 to 200 psi. Oh wait, I wouldda done that at the first, lol.
But I gotta say, the 200R4 is a pretty good option.

Clementine? You awake? Come-back ..... lol
 
I took a serious look at the GV for my Dart. Ultimately I went with a 46rh because the overdrive gear is way deeper and it gives me a lockup converter. Like jbc426 said, it makes it feel like a 5 speed with a higher stall converter.
 
jbc426 said:
.

I found the gear vendor's overdrive ratio was not worth doing for what I ended up with in terms of rpm drops on the freeway.
Click to expand...
I agree. The .78 ratio is something but not that impressive for an overdrive ratio. The .69 of the 500/518 is fine.
 
jbc426 said:
I don't like the crudeness and size of the Wilcap adapter and used a bolt-on bellhousing instead to fit a 2004R. I did have to modify the torsion bar crossmember, but not the floor pan itself.
Click to expand...
This is the Wilcap adapter behind my 340. What's crude about it?

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