Gets hot and stalls out

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Hello everyone, just wanted to give you some progress notes. I’ve installed the .25” spacer, and unfortunately it didn’t resolve the issue. I was supposed to be traveling for work this week but my meetings got rescheduled to next week, so trying to get things done now. I’ve got the top half of the fuel line done, and all but about 2” of the rubber is also covered in heat shield (Heatshield Products Hot Rod Sleeve). Ain’t the prettiest thing ever but I’m going for function over form at this point. I had to order a 6AN fitting for the connection to the fuel pump so hopefully I’ll be able to finish it Thursday. The new race coolant arrived today as well. At some point it occurred to me that someone had asked about headers, and I as I was working on the line I thought perhaps I need to put some heat tape on those to cut down the engine bay heat. So, lots more to do but making progress.

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** Disregard about the voltage regulator. It looks like the new one is internally regulated while the old one is externally regulated. Still would like input on the amperage though. **

Hello again. I’ve been thinking about the alternator; there was a comment that the 95a was far too much. I should note that the car has been rewired nose to tail, so everything has been upgraded. Still, with no A/C perhaps that can be downgraded a little. Nonetheless, while I’m waiting for parts, I’ve been doing research on the forum into alternators, and there have been several posts saying that a dual field alternator needs a voltage regulator. That led me to looking at the two alternators again, and sure enough it appears that the old one has a regulator on it. So, I’ll be getting a regulator and installing it on the new alternator. Any feedback on this is appreciated!

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itsfishy said:
** Disregard about the voltage regulator. It looks like the new one is internally regulated while the old one is externally regulated. Still would like input on the amperage though. **

Hello again. I’ve been thinking about the alternator; there was a comment that the 95a was far too much. I should note that the car has been rewired nose to tail, so everything has been upgraded. Still, with no A/C perhaps that can be downgraded a little. Nonetheless, while I’m waiting for parts, I’ve been doing research on the forum into alternators, and there have been several posts saying that a dual field alternator needs a voltage regulator. That led me to looking at the two alternators again, and sure enough it appears that the old one has a regulator on it. So, I’ll be getting a regulator and installing it on the new alternator. Any feedback on this is appreciated!

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The “alternator is too big” statement is crazy.
 
Post #119 asked about the troubleshooting results. I see you're running in several directions. You really need to focus on why the no-start. Does it have spark? Does it have fuel when you rock the throttle lever? After you fix the main issue you can start dinking around with other things.
 
Ricks70Duster340 said:
Post #119 asked about the troubleshooting results. I see you're running in several directions. You really need to focus on why the no-start. Does it have spark? Does it have fuel when you rock the throttle lever? After you fix the main issue you can start dinking around with other things.
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I appreciate the advice but I’m really not. I’m focused on the fuel issue, so I’ve put the spacer in and am redoing fuel lines. When I started it the day before yesterday I checked the fuel level in the carb via the sight glass (was where it should be). I’m waiting for a part (arrives today) so while I’m waiting I’m exploring other things that might be a cause, mostly because I’m still convinced that the alternator has something to do with it. Again for clarity: everything started after I replaced the alternator, and I just don’t like coincidence. So, heat issues first (fuel lines, new filter, new coolant), test, move on as necessary.
 
I am leery of header wrap as I toasted a set of headers on of all things my '88 Dak with a 125 HP V6. I wrapped them to keep the heat out of the engine compartment but in about 3 months, the totally fell apart flaking rust all over the place and naturally massive leaks. Edelbrock said that they could not warranty them as I wrapped them which caused baking of the carbon out of the mild carbon steel. Or so they said.
 
Have you checked ignition timing yet?

Alternators only put out as much as the electrical system demands. You can run a 200-amp unit but if your electrical accessories only pull 40 amps that's all it'll ever put out. What's the voltage when running?

There is more diagnosis you should be doing with tools instead of "this part might be an issue, replace". All you need to do to check whether it needs a voltage regulator is to use a multimeter and measure the voltage across the battery terminals or from alt output to ground while the engine is running. If it's over 14.5V (ideally lower due to your ambient temps), that's a problem.

If the fuel is indeed boiling, the engine should still at least try to start and run to some degree. If it's not firing at all that points more to ignition issues.
 
MopaR&D said:
Have you checked ignition timing yet?

Alternators only put out as much as the electrical system demands. You can run a 200-amp unit but if your electrical accessories only pull 40 amps that's all it'll ever put out. What's the voltage when running?

There is more diagnosis you should be doing with tools instead of "this part might be an issue, replace". All you need to do to check whether it needs a voltage regulator is to use a multimeter and measure the voltage across the battery terminals or from alt output to ground while the engine is running. If it's over 14.5V (ideally lower due to your ambient temps), that's a problem.

If the fuel is indeed boiling, the engine should still at least try to start and run to some degree. If it's not firing at all that points more to ignition issues.
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I'm not sure why folks are assuming I'm going at this as "this might be an issue, replace"; I'm going at this on a "do research, ask questions, get feedback, start working on the things that would be beneficial even if it's not the exact problem, test, continue". If fuel is boiling, that's a problem, so might as well do something about it. If it's not a problem (or not "the" problem), then doing something to make sure it doesn't become a problem isn't exactly a bad thing, and it rules out one potential issue. I know I don't know much about motors or diagnostics, so as I'm doing more research I'm asking questions. Asking questions does not equal just running out and replacing things. To your questions:

I have not checked the timing yet. I just got the last part for the fuel lines last night so hope to finish that up today.
I tested the alternator with a multimeter and it's fine; it's showing 14 on the gauge and similar at the battery. The old alternator was definitely not charging as I tested it the same way. Again, I keep coming back to the alternator because the problems started immediately after I replaced it, and that was the only change that was made. Still, I totally understand that one does not necessarily equal the other.
The engine does not start at all after it dies. It turns over very strongly but will not start for a solid 2 hours after the fact. After this most recent failure it wouldn't start for well over two hours; I ended up pushing it back into the garage and starting it the next morning, though it took quite a pull on the starter before it fired.

Ultimately I think under hood heat is the ultimate cause, but since the car has gotten hot before I think it's affecting some other part. Someone had suggested the coil before, and it sounds like you might be in agreement with that possibility.
 
itsfishy said:
I'm not sure why folks are assuming I'm going at this as "this might be an issue, replace"; I'm going at this on a "do research, ask questions, get feedback, start working on the things that would be beneficial even if it's not the exact problem, test, continue". If fuel is boiling, that's a problem, so might as well do something about it. If it's not a problem (or not "the" problem), then doing something to make sure it doesn't become a problem isn't exactly a bad thing, and it rules out one potential issue. I know I don't know much about motors or diagnostics, so as I'm doing more research I'm asking questions. Asking questions does not equal just running out and replacing things. To your questions:

I have not checked the timing yet. I just got the last part for the fuel lines last night so hope to finish that up today.
I tested the alternator with a multimeter and it's fine; it's showing 14 on the gauge and similar at the battery. The old alternator was definitely not charging as I tested it the same way. Again, I keep coming back to the alternator because the problems started immediately after I replaced it, and that was the only change that was made. Still, I totally understand that one does not necessarily equal the other.
The engine does not start at all after it dies. It turns over very strongly but will not start for a solid 2 hours after the fact. After this most recent failure it wouldn't start for well over two hours; I ended up pushing it back into the garage and starting it the next morning, though it took quite a pull on the starter before it fired.

Ultimately I think under hood heat is the ultimate cause, but since the car has gotten hot before I think it's affecting some other part. Someone had suggested the coil before, and it sounds like you might be in agreement with that possibility.
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Ok good, just making sure... I learned the hard way that the 'parts cannon' approach (wasted money). The fuel system mods you are doing are worthwhile even if there aren't any issues currently.

Definitely sounds ignition-related at this point, I wouldn't rule out the MSD box being bad either. Those are a crapshoot these days. Coil is easier/cheaper to check first though. Measuring resistance at a couple different points may indicate if it's bad. Only sure-fire way to test an ignition box though is to swap it out.
 
Good evening all, here's my update. Unfortunately, the parts that I was waiting for didn't fit, so I had to reorder. Very, very frustrating, but gave me an opportunity to step back and do some reevaluation.

I'm in the middle of swapping from braided SS lines to solid lines at the recommendation from the forum, but I read on Holley's site that they recommend either SS or braided. Well, I've already taken down the braided, so I'm continuing on that path but with some adjustments: I'll be covering the 3/8" line in Heatshield product, and then covering it again in 3/4" Jegs heat shield product that will cover not just the SS line, but also all of the rubber line from the fuel filter and the carb connections. Connections to the fuel pump will be handled by 6 AN fittings that are being changed from a 90* right out of the pump to a straight connection, which will actually route it away from the block for about 50% of the run to the carb, meaning that fuel should be cool...really, really cool...by the time it hits the carb. Long story short: along with the .25" carb spacer, there's just no way that fuel will boil before or into the carb.

I also looked at the coil. Despite my assurances to the group that I'm not going scattershot, on inspection I got concerned: the coil had a shallow dent on the cylinder body plus the bottom corner (between the bottom and the cylinder body) was compressed, as though it was dropped. Upon some research I also found that the MSD coil should be oriented vertically, not horizontally as I have it. And, just to throw a little bonus out there, I think I bought that coil in 1995. So, another long story short, between age, damage, heat, and vibration, I thought it prudent to just go ahead and replace it - so I did.

I'm traveling for work this week but will give another update when I can. In the meantime, and just so I can hear the collective forehead slap from the forum (lol), I'm considering pushing the HP from it's roughly 412 dyno'd amount (I'm sitting in a hotel and don't have the exact numbers in front of me) to a 500+ hp build. Let the criticism begin, but I don't think I need to make a lot of changes to get to that number. And yes, I understand that will not help the heat issue at all.
 
itsfishy said:
Just had a thought for everyone: I had JUST put on a new Powermaster 95 amp alternator. In fact, was taking it out for a longer test drive the first time it stalled on me. Any chance that 95 amps isn’t enough, and that’s causing the stumble/stall?
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Why on EARTH did you put such a high amperage alternator on it? Do you have a window unit A/C in the back window? You're just asking to burn that car to the ground now.
 
RustyRatRod said:
It's not that the alternator is "too big" it's that the car's wiring "ain't enough".
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Well sirs (making an assumption there but would love to know if I’m talking with any ma’am’s out there) I answered this previously but will do so again: it was recommended by a builder and the car has been rewired nose to tail with all new wiring, including fuse boxes. So I’m not worried about the wiring, and since I’ve learned it’s (the alt) also internally regulated I’m even less concerned. It is what it is at this point, I’m not swapping it. And yes, at some point I may add some A/C. Maybe not window A/C, but still.

I should also add that based on RustyRat’s response, a lack of amps is definitely not the issue.
 
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itsfishy said:
Well sirs (making an assumption there but would love to know if I’m talking with any ma’am’s out there) I answered this previously but will do so again: it was recommended by a builder and the car has been rewired nose to tail with all new wiring, including fuse boxes. So I’m not worried about the wiring, and since I’ve learned it’s (the alt) also internally regulated I’m even less concerned. It is what it is at this point, I’m not swapping it. And yes, at some point I may add some A/C. Maybe not window A/C, but still.

I should also add that based on RustyRat’s response, a lack of amps is definitely not the issue.
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I wasn't saying the alternator was in any way shape or form the issue. Thanks for the info about the car being rewired. Hopefully it was done correctly for a Mopar.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I wasn't saying the alternator was in any way shape or form the issue. Thanks for the info about the car being rewired. Hopefully it was done correctly for a Mopar.
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I’m sorry if I read more into your post than was there. It was a long travel day, and one that I wasn’t excited to make in the first place. Certainly not trying to take it out on anyone.

Car was wired with a Mopar-specific harness. I’m very confident in it.
 
itsfishy said:
I’m sorry if I read more into your post than was there. It was a long travel day, and one that I wasn’t excited to make in the first place. Certainly not trying to take it out on anyone.

Car was wired with a Mopar-specific harness. I’m very confident in it.
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Naw man it's all good. No problem at all.
 
Afternoon all, I've finally managed to get the fuel lines replaced with solid stainless. Took a while, and there was a bit of waste, but I now have SS lines, 6AN connections, and the lines are double- and in some places triple-insulated with heat shield (shield over the SS lines, and then another layer that covers the SS-to-hose from connection-to-connection, if that makes sense. I can take a pic for anyone who wants it). Between that and the .25" spacer under the carb that thing simply should not vapor lock. I also replaced the Blaster 2 coil because I noticed some damage to the old one. Car fired up on the first pull, and after some adjustments on the fittings everything looks good. I haven't been able to take it out for a test yet but might be able to do that tomorrow. Thanks again to everyone for their help, and more to come as I get to work on it. While I'm at it, has anyone used the universal radiator hoses for the top hose to engine? The one that's on the car now is hose with a metal connector in the middle. It looks like crap and I figure while I'm redoing it I might as well find something that may flow and look better.
 
itsfishy said:
Afternoon all, I've finally managed to get the fuel lines replaced with solid stainless. Took a while, and there was a bit of waste, but I now have SS lines, 6AN connections, and the lines are double- and in some places triple-insulated with heat shield (shield over the SS lines, and then another layer that covers the SS-to-hose from connection-to-connection, if that makes sense. I can take a pic for anyone who wants it). Between that and the .25" spacer under the carb that thing simply should not vapor lock. I also replaced the Blaster 2 coil because I noticed some damage to the old one. Car fired up on the first pull, and after some adjustments on the fittings everything looks good. I haven't been able to take it out for a test yet but might be able to do that tomorrow. Thanks again to everyone for their help, and more to come as I get to work on it. While I'm at it, has anyone used the universal radiator hoses for the top hose to engine? The one that's on the car now is hose with a metal connector in the middle. It looks like crap and I figure while I'm redoing it I might as well find something that may flow and look better.
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RED X for not posting some pictures.
 
That was a lot of work! Did it solve your issue?
 
RustyRatRod said:
That was a lot of work! Did it solve your issue?
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It was, but it was pretty gratifying to do (even if there may have been a swear word or two thrown in the car's direction) and I learned a bit along the way. I've not been able to test it yet; I literally just finished it a couple of hours ago. I *might* be able to get it out tomorrow, but honestly the way my weekend is shaping up it probably won't be until next week.
 
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