Getting hemi 5.7 to 500hp pump gas

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snapetwo

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OK, so here is the situation.
Its been debated that my idea of 700hp on street, is a little scary.....so im gonna shoot for 500hp, figure its a nice round number.

I wanna know how everyone would approach this, im not a millionaire...so can't afford blowers and stuff(someday want a root style blower thru the hood), i will not run a turbo, my car is a muscle car not an import.

I picked up the 05' ram hemi 5.7 for $200, guy said it has a lifter tick....i had a tough time turning it over (compression, nothing broken), it did turn over. I ended up pulling heads to check the cylinders, everything is smoother, looks good.

As of now, i have 2 choices.
1. Spend $300 to replace the head bolts and put it back together, then try and fire it once i get that situation worked out (hotwire or megasquirt).
2. Spend money NOW, while its torn this far apart, and rebuild it/hop it up a bit...

I'd hate to dump money into the engine if its not gonna run, however id hate to get it running, only to find a prob and have to tear it down yet again...

ultimately I want to be able to drive this on street, weather permitting..mountain driving Colorado.

I'd like peoples opinions, suggestions, what they would do..all that.
 
I would go with option 2.

If you have a goal of 500hp you're going to have to do a little work to the engine. It seems like a waste of time/money to put it all together to get it running, then tear it apart again.
 
very true...guess im just anxious to hear her breathe...
What u suggested for 500hp?
I read something about pistons melting at near 500hp....
 
Easiest....Arrington has a 6.4 based 426" stroker for $6999 right now.
 
no, way to much money. Have my hemi already.....
Thanks though, and if i was gonna spend that much dough, i would just get the kit Chrysler is selling for hemi swaps.
 
As far as actually getting to 500hp i'm not sure what you'll need. I just know it'll be cheaper to only do it once. I definitely feel you on wanting to hear it though. Mine's been sitting on the stand for probably a year now.. Still trying to find time to do the wiring.

You'll definitely want to got with a forged (6.1) crank, a set of worked heads, and a nice bumpstick but i'm sure yoi already knew that.

It's hard to navigate on my tiny phone with terrible internet or i'd try to find some more information for you
 
So what was wrong with the motor? You need to figure that out first. The tick could be a number of things. Do any of the rods have any play in them? Was there any metal in the oil pan? I wanna say there was a ticking issue with early truck 5.7's that was traced to valves/valve springs. Someone else can fill you in on that. Just don't choose either option until you know what was wrong with it.



500 flywheel or 500 rear wheel? Big difference...

500 rear wheel is close to impossible with a 5.7 hemi (no one has done it yet to my knowledge). I have seen a radical built 5.7 put down 500 flywheel N/A, though. We're talking 11.8:1 compression forged motor, GTP stage 2 eagle heads and stage 2 intake, ~23x/23x @.050 cam, etc. The motor has run high 10's in a new challenger. $$$$

The cheapest way to make power with a hemi is either forced induction or a stroker kit.

I'm getting the idea that you don't want to spend much money on the motor. If that's the case, you need to re-think your hp goal (again). Put a cam in ($300-$400), new head bolts and gaskets ($120), put it together, and enjoy what you've got. Assuming you've figured out the tick.
 
good points..ty for the replies and info.
The tick, is a mystery obviously without it running. They guy I bought it from actually did the swap for a client of his, he sold me it for $200. I jumped all over the engine regardless of the tick.
It turns over, there is no leaks, no metal, no nothing.
the rods were all straight and true. Valves worked....im guessing is just a lifter.
I know my 09 charger has a slight tick, but its nothing to worry about, even dealership said its nothing.... that's the "normal tick" ive read about.

way i figure it....if that's all that's i wrong w it, I stole the engine...if its something more serious, I still am doing great for only spending $200

So if i just went stock ecu, cam, some forged piston....what is a realistic HP expectation?
if i decided to stroke it, then what?
 
snapetwo said:
i will not run a turbo, my car is a muscle car not an import.
Click to expand...
So using your logic this is not a muscle car....Would take this type of build over a G3 HEMI any day....[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baxA0Js8CUU&list=UUY0zVPlQg-eSVYTSyig0Kkw&index=21&feature=plcp"]mike duster Atco - YouTube[/ame]
Turbos are a way to have your cake and it eat it too. Ridiculous amount of power when the go pedal is pushed yet reasonable manners when it is not. But to each his own....
 
ya know, im only 30. I grew up with the imports and the stupid blow off sound that the turbos were doing...and I developed the opinion. A a muscle car should not have a turbo. It should have a super charger.
Now my personal preference, maybe im just old skool at heart...Root style thru the hood blower, whining. NO turbos, no hiding it....show it.

Now I do realize turbos are free HP, superchargers are parasitic...I just can't make myself, put a turbo, in a muscle car.

Maybe im way off in my logic, but there you go.
 
500hp out of a 5.7 is not cheap, gotta go over your goals again.
 
OK, fudge that....im wrong in my turbo thinking...my god look at youtube..hemi and turbo.....as long as it dont' sound like an import, that is to much for me.
 
snapetwo said:
ya know, im only 30. I grew up with the imports and the stupid blow off sound that the turbos were doing...and I developed the opinion. A a muscle car should not have a turbo. It should have a super charger.
Now my personal preference, maybe im just old skool at heart...Root style thru the hood blower, whining. NO turbos, no hiding it....show it.

Now I do realize turbos are free HP, superchargers are parasitic...I just can't make myself, put a turbo, in a muscle car.

Maybe im way off in my logic, but there you go.
Click to expand...
My logic tells me the more driveable the better. Build a reasonable motor with decent compression, keep the boost low when on pump gas......not going to hook up on the street when you start talking higher hp anyways....track day gets here give it some octane & turn the boost up. Funds permitting for the turbo build it just does not make any sense to me to build a 500-600 hp "old school" build anymore...just like it does not make any sense to me to not have an od....but that is a whole nuther topic....
 
snapetwo said:
good points..ty for the replies and info.
The tick, is a mystery obviously without it running. They guy I bought it from actually did the swap for a client of his, he sold me it for $200. I jumped all over the engine regardless of the tick.
It turns over, there is no leaks, no metal, no nothing.
the rods were all straight and true. Valves worked....im guessing is just a lifter.
I know my 09 charger has a slight tick, but its nothing to worry about, even dealership said its nothing.... that's the "normal tick" ive read about.

way i figure it....if that's all that's i wrong w it, I stole the engine...if its something more serious, I still am doing great for only spending $200

So if i just went stock ecu, cam, some forged piston....what is a realistic HP expectation?
if i decided to stroke it, then what?
Click to expand...

You either need to stay stock short block or go forged short block. The absolute bare minimum for a forged short block is ~$2000-2500 after machine work and assembly. Add ~$600-800 if you throw in a stroker crank.

Go check out LX forums for what to expect from a cam only. Use my search below:
https://www.google.com/search?q=dyn...d929655c529e4&bpcl=38897761&biw=1920&bih=1019
 
Heres an article I found, looks like your not going to get anywhere close to 500, without major$$$ and/or a blower.
The 5.7 in my 07 charger, with a diablo tune, CAI, put down 305 at the rear wheels.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/general/hrdp_1105_what_breaks_on_2008_to_2011_dodges/viewall.html

Engines
’09-’11 5.7L (345CI) HEMI
The Challenger R/Ts were factory rated at 370 to 376 hp and 398 to 410 lb-ft. Variable cam timing (VCT) is standard; automatics also get the multiple displacement system (MDS). For street use, DC Performance’s Lyle Larson says the 5.7 can tolerate up to a 30 percent power increase with no major short-block mods.
VCT issues (big cams): Serious performance cams aren’t compatible with the cam phaser. Software lockout only works to a point, and no mechanical limitation devices are currently offered (Arrington’s working on it). The front cam, cam drive, and block are different, so a non-VVT cam and drives won’t fit. Either regrind the stock cam or use an Arrington billet 5.7L cam that works within the phaser’s limitations.
MDS problems (big cams): Cams over 218/220 degrees at 0.050 aren’t happy with MDS. Disable it via reprogramming (DC and Arrington offer these services). Half the lifters are different; replace with standard 6.1L lifters.
Pistons fail (any power level): Detonation from excessive boost, an overly aggressive tune, and/or bad gas breaks the tops off the stock hypereutectic pistons, usually on the intake side. 20 to 21 degrees of lead is pushing things under high load, WOT, cautions Modern Muscle’s Dave Weber. Replace with a high-quality aftermarket forged piston.
Con rods break (600-650 hp): Replace the stock powdered-metal rods with high-quality aftermarket forged rods.
Crank bends (650 hp): The 5.7’s cast-iron crank may bend at this level. Replace with the 6.1’s forged crank or aftermarket equivalent.
Main caps fracture (800 to 900 hp): ARP main studs help the stock powdered-metal main caps live to a point, but the best answer is replacement Arrington Performance (or equivalent) billet caps.
Main and rod bearing wear (racing): DC Performance reports problems with the stock 5.7 bimetal bearings under extreme race use. Replace with trimetal bearings.
Valvetrain issues: 5.7L valves are heavy, and should be replaced on rebuild. The 5.7 needs a spring upgrade with any real cam change, Weber says. When replacing a cam, the seals get torn up; always install new ones.


Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/...008_to_2011_dodges/viewall.html#ixzz2DYBXjybA
 
You guys know he never said rear wheel or flywheel. And 500 to the wheels is possible. Not cheap but possible. And I hate to say it but comparing the new cars, with what an a body will do are drasticly different. The modern transmissions soak up a ton of power. The 03-08 Hemi (345hp rated in the ram) will only dyno 260-270 to the wheels. So your seeing a loss of close to 100 HP in the driveline alone. Add in a set of ported heads, headers, cam, a good tune, and you typically see 360ish to the wheels in a ram. Figure in your driveline losses of aprox 100 HP and your in the upper 400's at the flywheel. Want an added boost stick a bottle in the trunk.and you can easily have sn additional 150hp on the stock rotating assembly. Guys spray 150 in the trucks all the time.
 
My goal when we built my 5.7 was 500 hp to the WHEELS,500 hp to the crank is NOT hard to obtain again can you do it on $300 NO - HP cost money and trying to achieve it on the down low cheap basis will only cause problems,Now the question is for everyone is: supercharger?? Turbo??? spray???? or take the stroke and compression to the max and deal with race gas.My 392 5.7 was built for no power adder other a 100 shot of nos if i wanted which is NOTHING to throw at ANY engine if done PROPERLY.Ok so I get crap all the time because I choose to use a CARB = old school according to SOME here on this site.Carb's are NEVER going away in our hobbie and I choose that route again MY CHOICE.What did we achieve????? I've got 634hp at the flywheel and 518hp at the rear wheels with my cut-outs CLOSED!!!!!! In a properly built forged and stroked 5.7 small block with a carb. Was it cheap??? NO is it sweet??? Come to Wisconsin and take a ride and find out.Those are big block numbers that we have out of a small block,Again you can do the same thing with a R3 block and lot's of cash,I have less than $6000 in this motor including everything from pan to carb.--Hope this helps a little--Steve
 
So im thinking of doing a cam and a twin turbo setup.
What you all think of that? hp range? do you think internals still need to be upgraded?
I don't want to run nos, turbo is already pushing my way of thinking..
 
Any boost is pushing it in the stock pistons. You can run 6-8 psi but who wants to stop at 6-8psi? Build the motor now, for your ultimate goal later. You may sacrifice a bit of power now, but will greatly make up for it later.
 
well, might as well stroke it then too. get some work done.
I saw a package for srt8 for a few grand, maybe i'll look into that. Crank, cam, heads
 
You keep saying get some work done?????? what is getting some work done???? If your putting a crank in why not stroke it???? with the callies set-up there is NO clearance to be done for the stroke-I choose diamond forged pistons and my final compression was 11-1 ,I also used head studs,Main studs-Runs great on 93 pump gas but I use aviation fuel because I have connections at a local airport and get it at cost--Steve
 
my plan will take me to500 hp give or take a few but your right stroke it like you said with a line bore and lifter hone nice eagle forged crank ,comp cam 20-228, 229 if you really wanna push it to the track side 360 x heads m1 intake and 750 or bigger carb 10,5/1 comp good stall and workon gettng it to hook it should be a nice looking quik street car and can still take to sho and feel good but its your car burn it down your way allin 1 shot or a few years i have a buget also i went for best of both worlds i hope lol my bro in law went for it all for 25k and had 1 hell of a summer now car back up on blocks looking to tone it down for economic reasons obviously we all want it all butits gettn to expensive to play hard and run hard on your own $ hope whatever u chase you get but cash and time went thru my fingers like water so im looking to play a little slower a little longer but gl with your choice
 
On the 5.7 hemi You could put in a custom cam, performance heads and tune and get 400 wheel horsepower, I would contact a hemi specialist for a recommended cam . Inertia has quite of few and a couple to get the 400+ whp.

http://inertiamotorsports.com/camshafts.html

Once you get beyond that range of power its gonna cost some bucks, and if your talking turbocharging ,Lots of little things add up quick . Besides the turbo , a good wastegate and blow-off valve isnt cheap and custom headers and hot and cold side tubing (they really needs to be tig welded to keep slag out of the turbo), intercoolers etc. will get expensive real quick. I did a turbo project and was suprised how quick it all adds up.
 
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