Guns, Dogs and Blades QnA

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Revhendo said:
Why is this?
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Well it kind of all goes back to the litigation landscape of todays society. Most all of the popular classes for self defense, defensive shooting, etc have a large part of the class doing holster work with high repetitions. Invariably if there is an AD (accidental discharge) on the range it is typically when the individual is going in or out of the holster. The great majority of students have not practiced this aspect of shooting much, they are clunky and nervous about drawing their pistol. The leather holsters create more friction and also are far more malleable and prone to the tops folding over as the individual inserts the pistol back in. With Kydex, the holster is ridgid and the friction coefficient is dramatically less. This greatly reduces the opportunity for anything to go wrong on either extraction or insertion of pistol into holster. As a result it has become somewhat of an industry standard to require a modern holster for training. By same token most PDs have adopted similar stance as a result of retention device requirements. Very few ranges or clubs will allow the shooter to do holster work. If they do allow it a lot of times the member must pass a test and have a written release from club allowing them to do holster work. In my classes I always explain that on each repetition I require the student to slowly and carefully look the pistol back into the holster. Most all are utilizing a striker fired pistol so it is going back into the holster with a round in chamber. I have seen multiple ADs in both training and at matches it happens. By same token of course a seasoned competitor who has thousands upon thousands of draws from holster is not who we are talking about here, it is Joe citizen who has signed up for class with little to no experience. I apologize for length of response but this is a tuff topic.
 
Any thoughts on a Taurus Judge for home defense? I own a Glock & a shotgun, but would like something that takes less aiming at indoor distances. I don’t have a great deal of experience with guns.
 
Mike69cuda said:
Any thoughts on a Taurus Judge for home defense? I own a Glock & a shotgun, but would like something that takes less aiming at indoor distances. I don’t have a great deal of experience with guns.
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M69 great question, it is however like asking which cam is best on this forum! Hah! Here is my .02 worth. Please note I do not have a dog in the fight, we do not sell guns for a living. A lot of folks purchased Judges here a couple years back due to the size vs punch and flexibility with ammo. I have never heard a complaint about them and or seen a malfunction at the range, I do notice however at the range, if an individual brings one they do not shoot many rounds before they are done. They are a bit rough on wrists, by same token they are not designed for extended shooting sessions. With regard to your actual question. I would perhaps look at it a bit differently. What if you took the money you will spend on a Judge and purchased ammo for your Glock, then hit the range for more practice? Depending on who’s metric you utilize there is some deviations on distance but virtually all metrics indicate the great majority (80 plus%) of self defense incidents occur at approx seven yards. At that point you can utilize your bodies natural reaction and kinesiology to eliminate the threat. Translated distance and time dictate the need to aim. I will always aim if at all possible, but given we do not always have that luxury, exactly to your point, we must practice not aiming on occasion. You can very effectively train at home for this with your Glock, via many options. From dry fire snap caps to all kinds of laser adapters that use apps in your phone. Once your body does the repetitions you create habits and neurological pathways. This in turn negates the need to aim at some of the closer distances. Again I am a strong advocate of aiming. On the technical side at indoor distance a shotgun pattern is not nearly as big as one might suspect. Thus back to my Glock suggestion. Practice and Shoot with what ya got buddy. As much as it pains me to say this you just can’t go wrong with the Glock! Disclaimer: I do not carry or shoot Glocks thus the humor! But there is simply no getting around the fact that Glocks are reliable and accurate.
 
Both of your posts lead to the fact that nothing replaces practice. Firearms proficiency is a perishable skill. Dryfire practice at home is invaluable if done right. It can also reinforce bad habits if done wrong. (Don't ask me how I know, I'm still working at untraining a few quirks.) Live fire practice ties it all together with conditioning, accuracy, recoil sensitivity, manual of arms and whatnot. I'm not going to lie, live fire is way more fun.

The main thing is to find something you're comfortable with and something you'll want to shoot. If you find a tupperware mini 9mm is what fits you best and you can shoot it accurately, go with that. Practice the hell out of it, learn how to unjam it blindfolded, rack the slide with your foot, open a Doritos bag with it and practice, practice, practice. My .357 snubby is fun, but after about 4 rounds downrange, I'm reaching for my old, rattley .45 Gov't 1911.
 
Revhendo said:
Both of your posts lead to the fact that nothing replaces practice. Firearms proficiency is a perishable skill. Dryfire practice at home is invaluable if done right. It can also reinforce bad habits if done wrong. (Don't ask me how I know, I'm still working at untraining a few quirks.) Live fire practice ties it all together with conditioning, accuracy, recoil sensitivity, manual of arms and whatnot. I'm not going to lie, live fire is way more fun.

The main thing is to find something you're comfortable with and something you'll want to shoot. If you find a tupperware mini 9mm is what fits you best and you can shoot it accurately, go with that. Practice the hell out of it, learn how to unjam it blindfolded, rack the slide with your foot, open a Doritos bag with it and practice, practice, practice. My .357 snubby is fun, but after about 4 rounds downrange, I'm reaching for my old, rattley .45 Gov't 1911.
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Well said RDO, shooting is most certainly a perishable skill. And we call what you are referring to as “training scars”. Once upon a time I got a piece of string wrapped around my finger in an effort to fix one! But that is a story for another day!
Shame you are not closer as we are hosting Nighthawk on our range for a demo day Oct 1. You could shoot some of their rattle traps! Hah! Should any of you ever get a chance to shoot a Nighthawk pistol do it. The difference is amazing and frankly there is just no way to describe it. I would say it is better than sex but then you would all accuse me of being older than dirt.
 
Sublime one said:
Well said RDO, shooting is most certainly a perishable skill. And we call what you are referring to as “training scars”. Once upon a time I got a piece of string wrapped around my finger in an effort to fix one! But that is a story for another day!
Shame you are not closer as we are hosting Nighthawk on our range for a demo day Oct 1. You could shoot some of their rattle traps! Hah! Should any of you ever get a chance to shoot a Nighthawk pistol do it. The difference is amazing and frankly there is just no way to describe it. I would say it is better than sex but then you would all accuse me of being older than dirt.
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I would totally be up for that. I have fired a few of the Wilson Combat offerings and they (Nighthawks) are on another plane, for sure. Although I still lust a Supergrade in Baron Blue....
Oh, and a full size 1911 in 9mm? It is such stupid fun to shoot.

And now, the obligatory Zombie Cat pick....
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Anyone else had friends or family who live in (former) "May issue" states hit you up with questions on ownership?
 
Well my neighbor came over for some reloading support. He borrowed some powder, primers, and dies, a machine or two and a scale, other than that he had everything he needed to load some 30-06. Hah! I could not say no, he is going on a once in a lifetime Elk hunt, using a pre 64 Winchester in 30-06 his grandfather gave him. He really wanted to make his own ammo as well but does not reload. How can you say no to that! Pure legacy hunt right there. He had a great time but did not think my no alcohol at loading bench was a good rule! I assured him it was, ask me how I know!

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Revhendo said:
Oh, and a full size 1911 in 9mm? It is such stupid fun to shoot.
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I thought I was crazy buying a Springfield Range Officer Elite in 9mm years ago, I think I enjoy shooting it the most out of the other handful of 1911's I own. Super accurate too.
 
Sublime one said:
Well my neighbor came over for some reloading support. He borrowed some powder, primers, and dies, a machine or two and a scale, other than that he had everything he needed to load some 30-06. Hah! I could not say no, he is going on a once in a lifetime Elk hunt, using a pre 64 Winchester in 30-06 his grandfather gave him. He really wanted to make his own ammo as well but does not reload. How can you say no to that! Pure legacy hunt right there. He had a great time but did not think my no alcohol at loading bench was a good rule! I assured him it was, ask me how I know!

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Gonna come visit it ya soon John and if you have time would like you to help me with my non experience reloading 45 ACP.
Tell your hound Hemi treats real soon as long as she don't eat me first. lol
 
Mike69cuda said:
Any thoughts on a Taurus Judge for home defense? I own a Glock & a shotgun, but would like something that takes less aiming at indoor distances. I don’t have a great deal of experience with guns.
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https://www.vuurwapenblog.com/gener...inion/the-taurus-judge-is-just-not-very-good/

There's no such thing as needing to aim less. Shotguns just do not have the spread that Hollywierd has us believe. If it does, it's a bad idea to even try to use it. You're accountable for every projectile going down range, and if they disperse that far - it becomes negligent to employ. Relying on spread vs accuracy is a recipe for blind-firing ineffectively as well.

Until star-trek like phasers with auto-aim are the norm, we're going to have to aim well and shoot straight.
 
Phreakish said:
https://www.vuurwapenblog.com/gener...inion/the-taurus-judge-is-just-not-very-good/

There's no such thing as needing to aim less. Shotguns just do not have the spread that Hollywierd has us believe. If it does, it's a bad idea to even try to use it. You're accountable for every projectile going down range, and if they disperse that far - it becomes negligent to employ. Relying on spread vs accuracy is a recipe for blind-firing ineffectively as well.

Until star-trek like phasers with auto-aim are the norm, we're going to have to aim well and shoot straight.
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Not disagreeing with you, however I live in a neighborhood with houses on every side & I am very concerned about high velocity bullets that miss thier mark. I would rather take my chances unarmed as kill someone else in the house or a kid next door.

That was my primary consideration buying a tactical shotgun. I want to shift the odds in my favor without risking others.

Anybody have any wisdom on this issue?
 
Mike69cuda said:
Not disagreeing with you, however I live in a neighborhood with houses on every side & I am very concerned about high velocity bullets that miss thier mark. I would rather take my chances unarmed as kill someone else in the house or a kid next door.

That was my primary consideration buying a tactical shotgun. I want to shift the odds in my favor without risking others.

Anybody have any wisdom on this issue?
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Shotguns will go through more walls, doors, and drywall than a 5.56 round will. Smaller bullets fragment when they hit things and tend to lose lethality quickly. Buckshot and slow/heavy round don't take as much damage and will continue on with lethal capacity for much longer.

There's some professional testing out there on the subject matter, but the take-away is that if you're buying to prevent over-penetration you're better off with stronger physical security in your house because anything which is effective at conversational distance is also effective through at least one interior wall.
 
Mike69cuda said:
That was my primary consideration buying a tactical shotgun. I want to shift the odds in my favor without risking others.

Anybody have any wisdom on this issue?
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I use my AR pistol loaded with .223 rounds. As mentioned they tend to be frangible, especially with a cannelure.

Or, you could get a fur missile.

OIP.RnIaOwcSSApknbRNR3_67QHaHa?w=216&h=216&c=7&r=0&o=5&pid=1.jpg
 
Mike69cuda said:
Not disagreeing with you, however I live in a neighborhood with houses on every side & I am very concerned about high velocity bullets that miss thier mark. I would rather take my chances unarmed as kill someone else in the house or a kid next door.

That was my primary consideration buying a tactical shotgun. I want to shift the odds in my favor without risking others.

Anybody have any wisdom on this issue?
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Mike,
You can easily achieve your goals with some research on ammunition, there is a plethora of designed ammunition to do exact what you are asking about. Predominately in 9mm. No need to reinvent the wheel, there is a whole big wide market of folks that have your concerns. Check any of your major ammunition manufacturers website and you will be good to go.
 
Phreakish said:
Shotguns will go through more walls, doors, and drywall than a 5.56 round will. Smaller bullets fragment when they hit things and tend to lose lethality quickly. Buckshot and slow/heavy round don't take as much damage and will continue on with lethal capacity for much longer.

There's some professional testing out there on the subject matter, but the take-away is that if you're buying to prevent over-penetration you're better off with stronger physical security in your house because anything which is effective at conversational distance is also effective through at least one interior wall.
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What about those 12-gauge short rounds?
 
Doesn’t shotgun penetration depend on the type of load used? Is there an assumed shot size for a shotgun when making the comparison?
 
Jadaharabi said:
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What about those 12-gauge short rounds?
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Not sure I'd trust them for self-defense. They're cool, but they tend not to feed well in pumps. A SxS or OU is not a great idea to get into a skirmish with. He with more ammo tends to win a fight that continues past the first 3 shots.
Whether to use the shorty rounds would depend on your own personal setup and how well it functions for you.
For me, the rule is that shotguns are for birds, pistols are for fighting my way to a carbine. Rifles are for hunting - everything.

Here's a good vid on ammo capacity. Yes, he's a cop and thus faces a different type of threat, but I've seen the trend in lots of self-defense shootings too.
 
Mike69cuda said:
Doesn’t shotgun penetration depend on the type of load used? Is there an assumed shot size for a shotgun when making the comparison?
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The only type of ammo which is useful for self defense is buckshot. Either 00 or 000. Both will penetrate more and further than 5.56. Using birdshot is likely to be ineffective, and in some instances could bring charges for 'maiming' since birdshot is not intended for engaging anything but... birds.

Protecting oneself requires using tools that are effective. Anything which is effective won't be stopped by interior doors and walls. Bullets exiting homes are rare. Being in control of where you have to engage a threat from is the way to avoid unintended hits. The only way to 100% eliminate projectiles is to rely on non-projectile means of defense. As a result, what's best for each person varies.
 
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