Hairline crack in my hedder tube.

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pettybludart

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Today I swapped a starter relay on the 66 Dart,while doing this I caught a glimpse of a mark on my coated headers.These are Hedman Husler,s fenderwell hedders that are coated.Upon further inspection,I noticed a very small crack(about 3/4 inch) starting at #3 cyl. tube on the outer side of the weld.These hedders weren,t cheap and I,ll be calling the manufacture about this,cause they,re only 6 mnths old and see what they have to say.I,ll post pics of the hairline crack tomorrow.I,ve heard the best way to stop from cracking is to drill little holes at the end of each side,then weld up.Has anybodyelse had a problem like this and what did you do?Thanks.
Here,s a pic of the hedders..
View attachment car pics 66 Dart 135.jpg

View attachment car pics 66 Dart 136.jpg

View attachment car pics 66 Dart 137.jpg

View attachment car pics 66 Dart 196.jpg
 
By all means youll have to call them first, the coating would have to be ground completly off in order to weld it up. Good thing you caught it before it was leaking bad, that will lean a cylinder out quick. I would pull the plug on that cylinder and look at it now.
 
By all means youll have to call them first, the coating would have to be ground completly off in order to weld it up. Good thing you caught it before it was leaking bad, that will lean a cylinder out quick. I would pull the plug on that cylinder and look at it now.
Will do Randy.Dam,you responded to a thread LOL,I feel privledged.Thanks.:snakeman:
 
i would talk to hedman first about this, i would think that they would need to know when stuff like that happens to be able to avoid that from happening again to anyone else..
i would gues there is more tension on that pipe than it should be maybe from forcing the pipe into the jigg when welding it or just to much heat when welding it making the pipe hard and brittle close to the weld.
 
Wow, sorry to read about this Scott, like abv posts said I'd be getting in touch with Hedman before any repairs are done. Good luck!!
 
id also like to hear Hedmans response -- i was considering their headers next .

Ive re-welded my old Hookers 423 times in the last 2 years .....
 
I have seen a few people have the same issues and gotta wonder why the companies don't use thicker wall tubing or at least sleeve the first few inches. Is there any way you could run a brace from the headers to say the bellhousing? I would think its an issue with that style of header and how far out the weight is. Kinda like holding a set of dumbells with your arms extended. Do that too long and your shoulders feel like there on fire.
 
I have seen a few people have the same issues and gotta wonder why the companies don't use thicker wall tubing or at least sleeve the first few inches. Is there any way you could run a brace from the headers to say the bellhousing? I would think its an issue with that style of header and how far out the weight is. Kinda like holding a set of dumbells with your arms extended. Do that too long and your shoulders feel like there on fire.

odd thing about it is that that crack is on the inside of a bend,where the tubing is compressed and therefore slightly thicker in wall thicknes compared to what you will find on the outside radius of the bend wich usualy is alitle thinner.

my thoughts on why the thinwall tubing is used is a few diferent points.

less steal costs less

thicker material takes more time and wears alitle harder on cutting equipment

thinner material is lighter in wheight

if the company is making raceheaders as well as typical streetstuff they already have the tooling for the thinner wall wich the racers prefer for lower weight this means they also wont need to buy two sets of mandrells and also cuts down on setup time since its not always a mather of just swaping the mandrel when doing a diferent wallthicknes,sometimes you need more or less preasure on the sliding (and or somethimes boosted woch may alse need adjustment on boosterspeed) suporting die.

having more diferent wallthickneses available also means you need more space and that you have to buy in less of each spec tubing meaning the price for each lenght will go up slightly, also having more tubing of diferent sorts on the shelf means that it may get old lying ther on the shelf, i dont know why but precision steeltubing seems to harden with time wich does make it almost useless when bending around tight radiuses, when the tubing has hardened by it self two diferent things can and will happen 1 it breaks while bending,this is a truly horrible senario that from time to time can take lots of time and effort to free the remains stuck on the mandrell it may also damage both the mandrel and wiperdie when this happens,its also very easy to damage the mandrel while cutting the piece of tubing open across the lenght of the mandrel 2 when the tubing does not want to bend since its to hard it may wrinkle in just the same way as a typical walker brand exhaust pipe,when this happens the wrinkels eats away material on the wiperdie as they pass over it and it very quickly eats the razorsharp tip of the wiperdie in the area wich is closest to the tangentpoint on the radius, it also puts an enourmus force on a very small area aproximately 1" behind the tip of the mandrel and puts a increadible force pulling the joints apart holding the ball segments at the end of the mandrel,these tools are kind of expensive to replace,but will last a very long time even under the huge forces they are subjected to as long as everything is done right.

puting a sleeve close to the end of the tubing would probably be dificult in a massproduction enviroment and would mean you would also need ot dent the tubing more to create space for the bolts. but i have seen some headers with a added bracket to the top of the flage wich is easier to install.

sorry this ended up being a mandrelbending 101 post but hope you get an understanding for why and how it works.

but a thicker wall tube would probably be easier to weld to the flanges to since it can take alitle more heat,its horrible to weld thick flanges to a thinn piece of tubing since the thick flange absorbs all the heat very quickly and dont want to melt while all that heat needed to penetrate the thick flanges easily burns thru a thinnwall piece of tubing

also TTI uses thicker wall tubing and i think dougs does it to but alot of people dont want to pay the added price
 
Man, I know how you feel I didn't even get mine on the car, 800 dollars and they did not fit so another 400 dollars later. They now fit the right way.
 
True about the weight savings and tooling costs but what good are either to the customer if the parts breaks? You also got to wonder the profit margin on a set of headers. My TTI's where about 800 and if they had a flaw or broke like that when being used for there intended purpose I would be pissed. If they tried to give me the run around they would end up with a set air mailed right up there ***! Either way thick wall tubing, bracing or sleeving would be would be worth the small profit loss in this case over pissed off customers. JMO.
 
thing is that most of the world have stoped carying about quality when buying, i run into this almost every day at work, most people only care about the price of the product:( doesnt mather if you tell most people that there is better alternative than the cheapest one, and then they come back mad when the cheap stuff wont last :( another example is "but i can get similar stuff cheaper somewhere else"
slightly oftopic, those hedman headers should be better of in the first place and for that price they should last alot better,hopefully this is just a mather of an isolated problem that hedman will resolve :)
 
on the profitmargain, i have looked at making something more afordable for A-body mopars but its almost impossible unless its at a very big scale where stuff are made in big series,the time it takes to first make the paterns and jigs are one problem,the other is the time it takes to assemble the parts and weld them up this takes alot of time and skill for repeted good results,there is also quite alot of wastematerial to consider
 
Those type of cracks happen a lot on fenderwell headers.
 
There's a lot of leverage on fenderwell headers because of the amount of overhang there is. As Rob said.....it's not uncommon. BUT, that area should have been thicker to make up for it.....especially on high dollar stuff like that.
 
Can you braze it (or TIG it for reduced heat creep) from the inside (if Hedman tells you to pound sand?) I cant believe I had a set of those and sold them, evacuators and everything...and the only thing that can support those angel wings are the exhaust hangers as they move with the rapping motor unless you shoot something off the trans braces to the collector.
 
OK I,ve sent Hedman an e-mail with pics to their tech support.I,ll keep you updated on their response about warranty.:clock:

To guys talking about hanging exhaust?I only have 18 inch extensions at collectors with evac tubes installed at the collectors.
 
OK I,ve sent Hedman an e-mail with pics to their tech support.I,ll keep you updated on their response about warranty.:clock:

To guys talking about hanging exhaust?I only have 18 inch extensions at collectors with evac tubes installed at the collectors.

Dood...compare them to an under chassis header. See how much over hang there is now? That puts a ton of stress right on those top welds all along the header flange. It's not about what you have connected to the headers. It's about how much horizontal header there is between the heads and the inner fender. All that is just hangin there. That's a lot of leverage.
 
A simple 1 inch wide 1/8th inch thick strip of metal with a 90 degree bend at the top bolted up thru the floor board and the top hole of the header collector flange will support them provided your positive the motor is mounted solid. My Hooker fenderwells did the exact same thing exact same place on more than one tube so I had them TIG welded inside and outside all the way around, put the braces on and zero problems since but then again I have a 1/2 inch thick motor plate and an 1/8th inch thick mid plate with a solid mounted trans, aint nothing moving nowhere. Headers get the worst vibrations during a burn out and a two step launch. Cant wait to see what Hedman says.
 
Dood...compare them to an under chassis header. See how much over hang there is now? That puts a ton of stress right on those top welds all along the header flange. It's not about what you have connected to the headers. It's about how much horizontal header there is between the heads and the inner fender. All that is just hangin there. That's a lot of leverage.
I understand your point,but why #3 cyl. and not #1 or #2 cyl.??They would have more stress I would think?Maybe it,s just from the indentation for the heder bolt?We,ll see what they say?Regardless it will be fixed,but is gonna mess up the pretty factor LOL.:angry7:
 
I understand your point,but why #3 cyl. and not #1 or #2 cyl.??They would have more stress I would think?Maybe it,s just from the indentation for the heder bolt?We,ll see what they say?Regardless it will be fixed,but is gonna mess up the pretty factor LOL.:angry7:

Who knows? Maybe that particular weld is the weakest one. Didn't you say you have solid motor mounts? Maybe you could come up with some kinda support for the headers off the fenderwells somehow. Just a thought.
 
Another thing, if you launch on a two step, the headers fling around big time when the engine is missing.

Like Fish mentioned, make some sort of bracket that can help support your headers at the collector. Maybe make it similar to those rubber muffler hangers, not completely solid, but, providing support.
 
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