hellwig swaybar install

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redfastback

Don't ask me... my garage is empty
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well, i just got done doing an installation on a prototype swaybar setup for hellwig. the new front bar has better frame mounting and better endlinks that use the shock stud. the rear bar has better axle mounting plates and uses dogbone endlinks that are adjustable on the bar itself. haven't tested it on the street yet, rain is a comin'. the mounting is night and day compared to the old design. a few mods and this will be a nice setup. can't say when they will be put into production(early a's as well).
i am more than happy to be asked to help out a company that wants to make a better mounting and handling swaybar for a bodies. i hope that my .02 cents helps to get a good fitting/functioning sway bar for our cars.

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From the pics it looks like the front bar clears the strut rod a little better than some other bars do (they just seemed a little too close to the strut to me). I would be interested in a set for my 73 dart and a set for Nikkis 72 scamp.
 
Hey there redfastback, lovely installation, the mounting is truly night and day with the one I have... http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=25963&page=2
Now what I worry about mine is that the front installation will not be approved by the officials due to the weldings. I want to change all that and use the shock stud as you do.. Now what I want to know is the thickness of the L shaped mount.. is it 0.36 of an inch?
 
I REALLY like that adjustable rear sway bar. :thumbrig: =D>

But do you have to drill through the frame?

Is there an insert in there to prevent crushing the frame?

Is there any welding involved?

I know the Mopar people and audience that would buy an adjustable rear bar that was reasonably priced. But it would have to be less than Firm Feel's frame mount bars. Those are a lot nicer than the ones that strap onto the axle. So this axle mount unit must to sell to the customer for under $200 or not much more than their current rear bars. Or people will just buy the Firm Feel unit.

Here's pictures of my Addco rear sway bar install on my 68 Dart from my FABO picture page: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1070

At ride height on the front sway bar: If you didn't have the shock mount there and you tightened down the end link pack, does it naturally go in line with the shock stud. Tough to explain. But are the end links pulled over to fit in the lower control arm. They look pulled inward a little in your picture but I don't know if the suspension was loaded or not.
 
according to the directions, the inner holes increase the stiffness of the bar. yes you have to drill thru the frame but they give you an insert that fits in the frame rail and a washer straddles it. it says to start off in the outer hole and get the feel of the car with that and then go in one hole if need be.

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Looks nice, I have been planning on putting sway bars on my Duster for awhile now, may wait until these come out in a production version and see what people think of them.
 
On the front sway bar, what do you mean by "Shock mount"??

Do you have to have the lower control arm with the sway bar bracket welded to it??


:::Nevermind I see it now::::::
 
tubbedamx said:
On the front sway bar, what do you mean by "Shock mount"??

Do you have to have the lower control arm with the sway bar bracket welded to it??


:::Nevermind I see it now::::::
Click to expand...

Are you referring to my installation?
I guess not.. your referral to welding confused me.. sorry.
 
I guess what I was trying to say was...

If your car had a factory swaybar the lower control arms had a mounting tab welded to them. I was wondering how if you needed those control arms to mount the sway bar or not.

Not having seen a "Shock mount" before I didn't know what that was. But after studing the picture a little more I figured it out.
 
Nice, very nice. Looks like a better product coming. I'm game for one.
 
To redfastback >>>
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Looks nice, rugged. tubbedamx asked about whether you "HAD" to have the lower control arms that already have the welded on end link locators ... then he posted back that he realized that you don't. On that same point though, I ask the reverse; namely, will this new front bar work with the LCA that "DOES" have the factory tabbed welded on, because I certainly would not remove mine if I chose to use that bar.

Also, what are the thicknesses of the bars from and rear, their metallurgy and are they solid or hollow?

And lastly ... how does the front bar clear the factory disk brake calipers?

To autoxcuda >>>
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First off ... this you? - http://members.aol.com/pwall5/cars/2cudapag.html

... anyway, question about that firmfeel unit - I went and check that out and I really like the rear attachment and the bar up over the axle. But I wonder about it's clearance of the exhaust up there. Do you - or for that matter, does anyone here - know how the Firm Feel bar clears in the rear?


Lastly to any and everyone ... back to the front brake calipers ... clearance for the factory disk brake calipers that is ... on my car, after jacking the car up and turning the wheels left and or right, I have to pump the brakes a few times when it's back on the ground because of the end of the bar pushing the calipers when it's up off the ground. So how do either of these - the firmfeel or this hellwig - do in this regard? NOTE: I am not about to relocate the front calipers to behind the wheel - that's not happening.

Thanks and best regards,
 
first off.... the bars are 1 1/4" for the front, and 7/8" for the rear. in regards to whether it will clear calipers etc., mine are mounted to the rear. i would imagine that if you had front mounted calipers, you need to modify the length of the endlinks. and from the looks of it, it will fit factory swaybar tabs. the directions that were sent to me were for a b body that had pics of with/without factory sway bar tabs. i wil have to get back to you on whether it WILL FOR SURE fit cars with factory sway bars.


i have installed the firmfeel rear bar on a 70 dart. it went in quite well with the exception of having to move the fuel/vapor line off the pass frame rail. i couldn't tell you whether or not the hellwig or firmfeel is a better bar. autoxcuda might be able to answer which design is better.
 
Thanks, good info. Are the bars solid core steel though? What's the coating on them?
 
Rear Bar is very nice. Thats a must have for me. The 1 1/4" front bar is nice for guys running smaller tbars. I would think with a 1.04s it would be too much roll couple, and create understeer. Some of us running big ford rear discs cannot use a frame hung bar anyway - it doesn't fit.
 
GMachineDartGT said:
Rear Bar is very nice. Thats a must have for me. The 1 1/4" front bar is nice for guys running smaller tbars. I would think with a 1.04s it would be too much roll couple, and create understeer. Some of us running big ford rear discs cannot use a frame hung bar anyway - it doesn't fit.
Click to expand...

You get understeer when you have too much front stiffness compared with your rear stiffness, oversteer for the reverse (I imagine you know this, I don't mean to "sound" in any way condesending - sorry if I do ;0) ... NEway, if the spring rates, damping and swaybars are well matched ft/rr, assuming basic susp geometry is decent, you should get a fairly well balanced vehicle; especially since the A-body with either the /6 or smallblock has a very good front to rear weight bias.
 
To autoxcuda >>>
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First off ... this you? - http://members.aol.com/pwall5/cars/2cudapag.html
Click to expand...

Yep, that's me. :wave:

... anyway, question about that firmfeel unit - I went and check that out and I really like the rear attachment and the bar up over the axle. But I wonder about it's clearance of the exhaust up there. Do you - or for that matter, does anyone here - know how the Firm Feel bar clears in the rear?
Click to expand...

It's always going to be a possibility. Since who knows what your muffler guy did back there. It was made to avoid the factory pipe routing. It's going to be more of an issue with the guys running 3" pipe all the way out the back though.

The Firm Feel bar was copied from the fitment of the E-body rear bars that are on all the R/T's, Rallye, 'Cudas, AAR, T/A etc... It's a little tighter in the A-bodies, but the E-body guys don't really have any problems with it.

Lastly to any and everyone ... back to the front brake calipers ... clearance for the factory disk brake calipers that is ... on my car, after jacking the car up and turning the wheels left and or right, I have to pump the brakes a few times when it's back on the ground because of the end of the bar pushing the calipers when it's up off the ground. So how do either of these - the firmfeel or this hellwig - do in this regard? NOTE: I am not about to relocate the front calipers to behind the wheel - that's not happening.

Thanks and best regards,
Click to expand...

Turn the car all the way to see where it hits.

You could grind off a 1/4" of the non structural square pinch-off corner of the addco 1 1/8" aftermarket sway bars. This Hellwig bar pictured above doesn't look to have that.

Here's some pics of underneaf my Dart that still has the wide 66-72 sway bar setup. Note the interference and lack of turning radius when you have too long of LBJ bolt.

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Here's some pics of underneaf my Dart that still has the wide 66-72 sway bar setup. Note the interference and lack of turning radius when you have too long of LBJ bolt.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. My endlink bolts are reversed from yours so that the long side it down and cut off and filed.
 
redfastback said:
according to the directions, the inner holes increase the stiffness of the bar. yes you have to drill thru the frame but they give you an insert that fits in the frame rail and a washer straddles it. it says to start off in the outer hole and get the feel of the car with that and then go in one hole if need be.
Click to expand...

It probably wouldnt be a bad idea to weld the washers to the frame rail. This way if the end links come loose they dont wallow out the hole you drilled.
 
dartley said:
NEway, if the spring rates, damping and swaybars are well matched ft/rr, assuming basic susp geometry is decent, you should get a fairly well balanced vehicle; especially since the A-body with either the /6 or smallblock has a very good front to rear weight bias.
Click to expand...
What's well balanced?

'64 GT Dart, 273/904, manual steering and brakes with AC and about 1/3 tank of gas.
Without me
FL:932 FR:960
RL:698 RR:672

1892 front / 1370 rear

3262 total

58% front 42% rear

With me
FL:986 FR:976
RL:732 RR:688

1962 front / 1482 rear

3382 total

58% front 42% rear
 
375inStroke said:
What's well balanced?
Click to expand...

I hope it's better than 58/42 front to rear split. But fact is what most of our cars will be. They are heavy front engined sedans. IIRC, my 68 Coupe is the same F/R percentage. A glass hood, trunk battery, no A/C, 2/3 of gas would surely help that number.

A 64-66 Barracuda with that glass rear window probably has better percent than the coupes. But that's just added weight to the rear.

375stroke, you might try putting IN 3/4 of a turn (raise) on the FL adjuster and taking out 1/2 turn out (lower) of the FR adjuster. Then check weights with you in it. Should balance the front and rear side to side scale weights.

'64 GT Dart, 273/904, manual steering and brakes with AC and about 1/3 tank of gas.
Without me
FL:932 FR:960
RL:698 RR:672

1892 front / 1370 rear

3262 total

58% front 42% rear

With me
FL:986 FR:976
RL:732 RR:688

1962 front / 1482 rear

3382 total

58% front 42% rear
Click to expand...
 
Don't remember where I read it - years and years ago. But I had thought that the ratio for non A/C cars to be more like 55/45 (which is very good). I won't argue the point though because I don't have any facts on my side at this time and my memory has been wrong in the past and will be wrong again. But I would think that the '67 up A bodies would have a better fr/rr ratio than the earlier cars.
 
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