Which has what to do with getting the right set up?
Help me pick a clutch for my street/strip Dart- Centerforce Dual Friction Died!
- Thread starter 68Dart500
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harrisonm
Well-Known Member
Not quite sure what this means.
j par
Well-hung Member
Correct what you said about Brewers being very knowledgeable about four speeds and such, but if they sell clutches likely they don't build them or make them... They probably resell somebody else's clutch with their name on it. just like Hughes does with a lot of their products. Some good products they make, but a lot of their stuff is resale also, example cams...
With all that said likely it's been over 3 months since the op started this thread and had his one opening comment..
No questions or answers or anyting.. not even coming back on to say what he did or if he's still going to do something...
19DART66
Well-Known Member
First thing I have to now is, what first gear ratio is in that 833? If it anything other than a 3.09 your starting line ratio is to high, you want a first gear ratio x rear gear ratio to come out to 12.0 to 15.0(closer to 15 the better). Right now you are at 9.44 if you have a 2.66 first gear with 3.55 rear gear, if you have the 2.47 gear set your at 8.77, these are clutch killer ratios. 3.09 x 4.10 = 12.67 is a lot easier on the clutch and will help reduce the amount of clutch slip you need to get the car cleanly off the line. If you can not find a 3.09 gear set and have to stay with the 2.66 than you need a 4.56 or 4.88 rear gear. Now for a clutch, if you are dead set on a street clutch I recommend a Ram Power Grip HD with the 900 series disc and a clutch tamer. But the best clutch for the job is a Soft-loc (adjustable sintered iron clutch) and manual clutch linkage (not hydraulic).
19DART66
Well-Known Member
Oh and this will really get me in trouble, I recommend an aluminum flywheel because there lighter and helps dissipates heat faster from slipping the clutch.
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
How are those for chatter and noise on the street?
Why not a hydraulic linkage? If properly constructed they do the same thing - translate 4" or so of foot movement to .040-.060 plate departure, regardless of what kind of levers are used to get it there. Or are you referring to the hydraulic TO bearings which can be problematic...
My car has 2.66 1st, a Centerforce DF, hydraulic linkage (up to a stock fork and TO bearing), and 3.91 gears with 26.7" tall tires. I don't have to slip the clutch (more than normal) to get it moving. Not sure how it'd hold up on the strip though. I'm still in shakedown mode with short street trips.
19DART66
Well-Known Member
Yes a sintered iron disc will chatter bad on the street because the hotter they get the grabber they get, when driving on the street you have to learn to just let it out do not try to slip it out. Hydraulic clutch linkage actually reacts slower then mechanical linkage, for a street car that goes to the track once in a while they work fine and are alot easier on the leg, but for best performance mechanical. Just don't expect good 60 foot times with a 2.66 first with out excessive clutch slip, and Centerforce DF don't like to be slip like that. They are a very harsh clutch, I always called them parts breaker clutches, they love to eat up driveline parts.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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And mine did it on the street with street 295s as well. Which is one reason I swapped out the CFII disc.
j par
Well-hung Member
Of course this is an old thread and I'm sure you seen mine...
j par
Well-hung Member
For the hydraulic clutch the clutch tamer has a new product called the hit master. It's made for hydraulic clutches and has timers and all kinds of stuff like that. The price over doubles but I guess it's the cat's meow...
X’3 here. In a heavier car (E body) 2.66 first, 4.10’s and a 27 inch tire with a big street cam, single plane intake, etc... the car wasn’t to happy at the starting line.
I thought the CF-DF a good street set up, just not for my over weight over camed combo.
K.O. SWINGER
Meeting in the alley since 1976
I might get the Wrath of the Romans with this, but I put a ram HD Borg & Beck Style in my 340 and it is a great match. But it might be a little light for your setup. I run 275 50 dragnittos radials, it works great
K.O. SWINGER
Meeting in the alley since 1976
actually I believe ram calls it its competition series it's a 10.5
That’s actually a good set up.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
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My first clutch was an old Zoom, B&B 3-finger that I bought back in the 70s. I think it was called a 3200@ with rpm clamp assist. I liked it, even tho it took a good bit of leg power.
I bought the CenterForce hype in the second or third year of operation, and that's how I got started with the diaphragm. There was nothing wrong with my Zoom, except for maybe the modulation factor.
I don't recall who made that Zoom.
I eventually installed the disc into my CF-PP when I didn't like the supplied CFII disc. And it eventually blew up. Like all the rest,lol.
So the Zoom and the CFII are now sitting on the spare parts shelf, keeping the other stuff company.
I bought the CenterForce hype in the second or third year of operation, and that's how I got started with the diaphragm. There was nothing wrong with my Zoom, except for maybe the modulation factor.
I don't recall who made that Zoom.
I eventually installed the disc into my CF-PP when I didn't like the supplied CFII disc. And it eventually blew up. Like all the rest,lol.
So the Zoom and the CFII are now sitting on the spare parts shelf, keeping the other stuff company.
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
Does anyone make a sintered iron full disc with a sprung hub? Seems like that would be the best of both worlds (grip, reasonable plate load, and better street manners)... closest thing I could find was a Ram 900 series (sintered plates, sprung hub).
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Nope. If you use a sintered iron disc and it chatters you have way too much base load. I run about 600 pounds of base pressure and that's plenty. No chatter. Smooth engagement.
I'll never run anything else. Been doing it since 2001 and I'd never consider anything else.
McLeod
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
Only 600 lbs plate load?? Is that fixed load, or centrifugal assist?
You must be able to push the clutch pedal with one finger ;)
You must be able to push the clutch pedal with one finger ;)
I've only driven mine as far as the street...turned around and went back to the garage to finish body and paint.
GETTIN CLOSE!
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
That's what I have on it now. I've had it as high as 900 when I was breaking the disc in, and they come in from the outside to the center. Even at 900 it won't chatter.
I'm very careful with the plate load that low for just screwing off on the street because it's real easy to drive through the clutch if you're not careful.
I know guys running as high as 1500 base pressure on the street and they don't get chatter either. But that's a TON of load for the disc. You hit the car with bite and that much plate load and it will probably break parts.
I also use a little counter weight. I think is 8 grams on three levers, so 24 grams total. I also have some custom made fingers that actually delay the the counter weight a bit.
My pressure plate is adjustable so I can change the plate pressure easily.
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
So, what kind of pressure plate has that adjustment range? Is it super expensive?
What could I expect to use in my current combo, mostly street, a little strip? I'm guessing more than 500 but less than 600 ft-lb (without the nitrous). I know this sort of question gets complicated quickly, just trying to get a general idea what to upgrade to if (when?) I drive over my Centerforce ;)
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Now you can buy a 10 Long pressure plate and that's what I would have used had I not already had this stuff.
I use a McLeod B&B/Long cover. Cale Aronson still has adjusters and parts for those covers. He did mine.
He may have enough pieces to put one together, or you can just buy the Long cover and you'll have way more adjustment than I have. I think I go down to 400 and can get as high as 1000 pounds. You can get much more adjustment with the Long cover, if you think you need it.
Black Magic clutches is Cale's business.
Just as an update. I've got 4.10 gears in it now. Bought a Ram powergrip HD with 900 series disc and a new steel flywheel but I'm thinking of exchanging it because of the engine work I had done I'll likely be pushing the limits of this clutch setup. Realistically it'll probably only see 3-4 track days per summer and 1500-2k street miles which makes me unsure if I should go full sintered disc or twin disc etc
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