help me understand this

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trudysduster

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on my Duster, 8.75 rearend, spring suspension. messed some with this last year and lost interest because I really didn't understand pitch. now it is time to get it done. I had a slight vibration, not enough to spend a lot of money trying to find where it was. This year going to car show I have been carrying a lot more stuff in the trunk, like canopy, chairs, coolers etc. etc. now that the tranny mount problem is fixed the vibration is worse. Yesterday coming home from the show I noticed something I never had before. I am probably carrying about 400 pounds in the trunk. give or take. I was trying out the car yesterday and going down the road I hit a small dip in the road and the car went up and then squatted down a little and then leveled off. you know what I mean. When the car came down, at that point I noticed the vibration got worse at that point. when it leveled off it was back at a slight vibration. I know now that it was a change in the pitch of the rearend driveshaft tranny that caused it. Here are my questions:

1. should 400 pounds change the pitch that much. I don't remember being a kid and loading the trunks on cars like these to go on vacation causing a problem in cars.

2. Do you think that the springs may be a little weak causing it to squat more and would weak springs cause this at all.

3.at the point where the car came up and then back down in the dip, did the front of the rearend raise up that I felt the vibration a little more.

4. If that is the case, do I need to shim the back of the rearend and push the nose of the rearend down some. I know, I need to put the guage on it. I am going to do that shortly. I do not really understand this concept so I am trying to understand it in my terms about angles. I know they need to be one up and one down but it is confusing to me. I have several sets of shims but was wondering which way to start.

5.When cars shows are over and I take the 400 pounds back out, will I have to redo the pitch again.

6. last question......... would it do me any good to have a new set of springs made for this car. Or have these re-arched. would that keep the weight from changing the pitch enough to not cause a vibration.

someone explain this to me in terms I can understand. I don't understand some of the technical terms some of you guys use on these cars. I am old school. Not stupid but sometimes I read posts on here that some of the younger guys use that means the same thing we did back in the day to achieve the same results . Thanks,Bill :violent1:
 
I don't know where the problem is but I cant imagine "junk in the trunk" being a factor. Consider pick up trucks and how many complaints there aren't.
 
There is a nice thread in Transmission and Drivetrain tech with the title "Pinion angle - have a vibration" that explained everything rather well.

Posted via Topify using iPhone/iPad
 
Bill, I'm sorry I never got back to you on this after our discussion at the show. After reviewing my Chassis book, your goal should be to get the rear u-joint angle to be 5-7*. The link I posted in the last post appears to be the example from the Chassis book.

1. should 400 pounds change the pitch that much. I don't remember being a kid and loading the trunks on cars like these to go on vacation causing a problem in cars.

It will not change the pinion angle, but it will change the driveshaft angle, which effects the u-joint angle, but I don't believe enough to cause a vibration.

2. Do you think that the springs may be a little weak causing it to squat more and would weak springs cause this at all.

That could cause it to squat more, but I don't believe that is what is causing the vibration.

3.at the point where the car came up and then back down in the dip, did the front of the rearend raise up that I felt the vibration a little more.

That would be difficult to determine; whether it was during the compression of the spring when you initially hit the dip or the unloading of the spring after.

4. If that is the case, do I need to shim the back of the rearend and push the nose of the rearend down some. I know, I need to put the guage on it. I am going to do that shortly. I do not really understand this concept so I am trying to understand it in my terms about angles. I know they need to be one up and one down but it is confusing to me. I have several sets of shims but was wondering which way to start.

I would use the diagram in the previous post. If you set the u-joint angle properly, by either install shims or cut the spring perches off and reweld them in the correct position, and then still have a vibration, at least you can eliminate that as a cause.

5.When cars shows are over and I take the 400 pounds back out, will I have to redo the pitch again.

No.

6. last question......... would it do me any good to have a new set of springs made for this car. Or have these re-arched. would that keep the weight from changing the pitch enough to not cause a vibration.

Depending on how much the car squats when loaded, you may want to consider new springs. I've never had a set re-arched, so someone else will have to chime in on that.

Good luck to you on solving this issue. Sorry; I don't believe I've been much help.
 
Before modifying something else I would deal with the short drive shaft first. Something messed the old yoke up and it is pretty likely still involved in what you have going on now.
 
Before modifying something else I would deal with the short drive shaft first. Something messed the old yoke up and it is pretty likely still involved in what you have going on now.

Very good point; I didn't read that in this post. The depth of the yolk into the transmission will affect driveshaft angle, which will in turn affect the u-joint angle. That issue will need fixed prior to attempting to adjust u-joint angle.
 
Very good point; I didn't read that in this post. The depth of the yolk into the transmission will affect driveshaft angle, which will in turn affect the u-joint angle. That issue will need fixed prior to attempting to adjust u-joint angle.


You didn't read it in this thread because it is in a combination of three other threads.


http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=285803

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=285887

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=286054



attachment.php
 

Wow, that is far out.

Bill, I would recommend getting a longer driveshaft and having it shortened or have a driveshaft made for your application. You can find the length you need by inserting the yolk all the way into the transmission, then pulling it back 1"-1.5", put a u-joint cap into the yolk, bolt a u-joint into the pinion, and measure from center to center of each u-joint cap. When I accomplished this measurement on my Duster many years ago, I did it with both caps facing down towards pavement. I provided that measurement to my driveshaft guy, along with another driveshaft I had that was too long, and he was able to shorten it to what I needed. You may even be able to find a shaft that someone else has for sale that matches your application.
 
you guys have been a great help. I am going to deal with the driveshaft first. thanks for the info. I will get it eventually. thanks
 
heres what I would like to do. After we get this Grand Prix painted that's in the garage right now, should be over the weekend, I would like to get this car back up in the air and get the driveshaft lengthened and then take pics of the rearend and tranny with the guage on it and let you guys see where I am at. Then maybe you can tell me more about whether I need to shim the front or rearend and about how much. Would putting the jackstands under the rear axle and the front frame just behind the front fender wells and make sure the car is level be the correct way to measure the pitch. Thanks
 
Bill,
Figuring the pitch is over my head so I will have to just subscribe to the thread, read, listen and hopefully learn something. I do know getting the correct length drive shaft in will change your pinion angle.
 
Bill,

As long as the rear suspension is loaded it shouldn't matter. In other words, jack stands should be fine, as long as they are under the rear axle causing the rear springs to compress, instead of the under the rear frame rails. The car doesn't have to be level.
 
well Bill, don't feel bad it is way over my head too. I will get it up and take pics and let some of these other guys let me know what to do if they will. I am too old to learn new tricks. Bill
 
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