Help settle an arguement, oil pump shaft

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coffeedart67

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Dad has been helping me rebuild the 273. He says you can't install the oil pump shaft with the intake on, I say you can just may have to devise some kind of tool to get it lined up right. I am still probably at least a couple months away from engine install and startup, and therefore I wouldn't waant to prime and presurize the oil system now(using a homemade primer), would I? And I would like to get the engine sealed up.
thanks
Aaron
 
Dad has been helping me rebuild the 273. He says you can't install the oil pump shaft with the intake on, I say you can just may have to devise some kind of tool to get it lined up right. I am still probably at least a couple months away from engine install and startup, and therefore I wouldn't waant to prime and presurize the oil system now(using a homemade primer), would I? And I would like to get the engine sealed up.
thanks
Aaron

of course you can. prime the engine with a rod, then drop the drive in . it doesnt matter where the slot is pointing. when you go to start it, find BTDC and put the number one plug wire at the terminal the rotor is at.
 
Do it all the time. Real easy to index the gear just use a long flat blade screwdriver and turn the gear in the reverse direction. it will rise up and move one tooth at a time till it's indexed correctly.It's also fairly easy to pull it out of the bore with a hook made out of a thin piece of wire.
 
I replaced mine with the intake on. I used long needle-nose pliers. Like 73AbodEE said, you can line up the #1 wire anywhere. I would say try and keep the rotor pointing towards the #1 piston at TDC if you have a vacuum advance on your distributor so it has room to move back in forth when you set the timing.
 
As said above; just go to hardware store, get a 3/8" rod, weld a 5/16" allen/hex on it, and a priming rod is born.
 
Yes you can pre prime the engine with the intake on, dist.out.
Long hex shaft (you can buy them or make you own).
Two people, one to use the drill and the other to turn the crank.
Take the spark plugs out.
You take out the oilshaft first then prime and put back in.
But then you have to find tdc and position slot on oilshaft to the
proper position. Drop oil pump shaft in then take a long flat head screw
driver and place in slot and turn ,the shaft will rise then drop to the next
tooth. Keep going till in proper position (sorry hard to explain).
Hope the helps you.

Darryl
 
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=210714&page=2


"The thing" about timing traditional V8 engines. This does NOT apply to some V6s (even/odd fire) and some 4 bangers.

"The book" shows how to insert the intermediate shaft, that is the drive gear/ oil pump drive, and if done properly, everything comes out "OK"

THE REASON it is originally done that way is

so the assembly line folk can wrench, repeat

so the plug wires "lay" nice

so the tune up guys "see" what they expect.

The TRUTH is you can close your eyes and drop the drive gear in ANYPLACE, plug the distributor in "any" old way, and and then bring the timing marks up on no1 ready to fire, and plug the no1 wire in wherever the rotor points, and it will run just fine.

If the vacuum can is off interfering with something, you can simply turn it where you want, bring no1 up to fire, and plug the no1 wire into where the rotor is pointing.

HERE IS the steps to setting up an engine dist.

1---It is important to realize, that when the cam timing marks are set "by the book" that is cam at 6 o'clock, crank at 12 o' clock, this is NOT no1 ready to fire, but rather no6 ready to fire.

So you either have to plug in the dist. pointing to no6, or rotate the engine 1 turn

2---After the cam is timed, with the timing marks on TDC, the "book" shows how to insert the intermediate shaft. if yours is incorrect and you want to correct it, you can simply use a large screwdriver and "walk" the gear up out of the helix and move it whichever way it needs

The gear on a small block should have the slot pointing nearly straight inline with the crank, just a tad to the driver side pointing at the front most manifold bolt

A B/RB gear the slot should be essentially inline with the crank

3---With this in place, now bring up the no1 cylinder ready to fire NOT on TDC but rather WHERE you want initial timing to be. There are two ways to do that

A---If either valve cover is off, bring the timing marks up to where you want initial time, IE 10BTC or so for a bone stocker, 15-20 for a "cam" or maybe even a little more for a real hot cam
Look at either the no1 or no6 valves. Whichever set of valves is CLOSED indicates which cylinder is ready to fire. If no 6 are closed, you can either plug the dist. in with rotor pointing to rear (no6) or rotate the crank one turn, and plug the dist in for no1 (rotor pointing forward)

B---If the valve covers are on, pull the no1 plug, stick your finger in the hole, and bump the engine around. When you START to feel compression, watch the timing marks, and bring them up to initial time, IE 10-12 BTC

Now plug the dist. in, rotor pointing forward, and put the vacuum can approximately where it should be.

I always mark the dist. upper rim directly under the no1 tower so I don't have to argue with teh cap.

Rotate the dist RETARD (cw for small block, ccw for B/RB) to "get the slack" out of the drive, then slowly ease the housing back advanced until

the points open if you are using points

or until the reluctor tip is centered in the pickup coil core.

This procedure should get you close enough that the engine will start and run with no fuss. Then of course just take your timing light and adjust from there

An aside.

I'm a HUGE believer in checking actual TDC with a piston stop, which you can make or buy

cca-4795.jpg


Small block intermediate shaft below. The slot lines up with the front left intake manifold bolt. You can walk the gear up and around with a screwdriver

attachment.php


B, RB, 426 hemi:

attachment.php
 
Do you really need my vote? Dad, ya got out done. Though it is easier with the intake off. It can be done with it on.
 
I don't know if anybody mentioned this and it may be obvious to some.

But when you prime the oil pump be sure to rotate the crankshaft as flow to the cylinder heads alternates to each bank through the cam bearings.

Having never done one before, I didn't know this and had a very scary 20 minutes when I thought my Right bank had no oil flow/pressure.
 
Do it all the time. Real easy to index the gear just use a long flat blade screwdriver and turn the gear in the reverse direction. it will rise up and move one tooth at a time till it's indexed correctly.It's also fairly easy to pull it out of the bore with a hook made out of a thin piece of wire.

X2:burnout:
 
As was said above, you can absolutely install the oil pump shaft with the intake on, and as 67dart383 said, indexing the oil pump drive shaft as per the manual does not make any difference and is absolutely not necessary.
 
I don't know if anybody mentioned this and it may be obvious to some.

But when you prime the oil pump be sure to rotate the crankshaft as flow to the cylinder heads alternates to each bank through the cam bearings.

Having never done one before, I didn't know this and had a very scary 20 minutes when I thought my Right bank had no oil flow/pressure.

X2 Did the same years ago.

Sorry Dad ,Aaron is correct.

Darryl
 
I don't know if anybody mentioned this and it may be obvious to some.

But when you prime the oil pump be sure to rotate the crankshaft as flow to the cylinder heads alternates to each bank through the cam bearings.

Having never done one before, I didn't know this and had a very scary 20 minutes when I thought my Right bank had no oil flow/pressure.

Great point , I do this on any engine I build.i always make sure I get oil all the way up to the rockers.
 
I don't know if anybody mentioned this and it may be obvious to some.

But when you prime the oil pump be sure to rotate the crankshaft as flow to the cylinder heads alternates to each bank through the cam bearings.

Having never done one before, I didn't know this and had a very scary 20 minutes when I thought my Right bank had no oil flow/pressure.

While we're on "this" be aware that small blocks shafts turn CW, B/ RB and 426 era hemis turn CCW
 
Thanks, guys have a primer shaft made out of an old oil pump shaft without the gear and a piece of rod welded on to lengthen it.
Thanks again, and have a Happy Thanksgiving, (for our norhtern neighbors have a nice day, rest of the week and many more to follow)
Aaron
 
As said above; just go to hardware store, get a 3/8" rod, weld a 5/16" allen/hex on it, and a priming rod is born.

3/8 allthread, hit the end 6 times with a grinder to make a hex...done. Remember to plug or install an oil pressure sender before you spin it or you'll get a guyser of oil up your nose. Ask me how I know this 8-)
 
Remember to plug or install an oil pressure sender before you spin it or you'll get a geyser of oil up your nose. Ask me how I know this 8-)

Man between that and the trans fluid all over the garage floor from the valve body removal a couple of years ago, you are well lubed, LOL.
 
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