Help with cam selection

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rod7515

rod7515

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First let me apologize for this thread if it gets to long. But I need your thoughts to help me make a decision.
I am building (having built) a 360 stroked to a 408. My plans are to drive this on the street about 1000-1500 miles a year to local shows and to take 2 trips a year to shows that are 175 miles away which will include highway driving at 65 mph for 75/85 miles. I also want to race this car 2-3 times a year at a 1/4 mile dragstrip. Would like to run in the mid to high 11's.
The car is a 66 dart, that will be using a 904 trans and 3:91 rear. Motor will be bored .030 with a 10.25:1 compression. The heads are 915J's that have been slightly ported and upgraded to the larger valves. Rockers are rollers at 1.5. Scat crank and rotating assembly. I am planning on running a 2X4 setup with holley 500CFM carbs. I am going with a solid roller cam. I've always used Comp cam products so I contacted their tech line to get some recommendations on choices. The option he threw at me knocked me off my feet, a .260/.268 @ .050 with a .645/.645 lift 110 center line. He thought a 3000/3200 stall converter would be a good match. I thought that would be to much cam for an engine that would be driven as much as I think I would use it. And how would the valves springs hold up with that use. He didnt see any issues but I'm not sure I agree, I was thinking around a .575/.575 lift with a 110 center line and .260/[email protected].
Maybe its not feasible to run mid 11's and drive on the street as much as I want and if thats the case I would settle to run slower but want to be able to drive the car on the street. I am replacing rear springs with SS springs and moving them in for a mini tub change. Also will be adding frame connectors as well. So now your thoughts and recommendations? If I forgot or left out information let me know so I can get the best advice.

Thanks Rodney
 
That 4" arm soaks up a lot of camshaft. I had pieced together a mild 408 myself, to run the 11:50 zone. I ended up with the primary choice being a 258/270@ solid roller.I ended up with a [email protected] solid flat tappet.(Comp 294s).Idled like a pussycat. Fishy68 just went low 12's@112 with 3:55 gears,with a similar cam. Curious what other people will comment.
 
Mid to high 11s in a 408 powered street car isn't to hard. The biggest issue I see is the "slightly ported heads". Big inch motor and lightly worked heads aren't likely to make enough power to meet your mid/upper 11 sec goal, especially in a street car. Not saying it can't be done, just not likely.
 
That's an old school build in a modern cube displacement. I like the Mopar P4120657 for that. .590/312.
 
Do yourself a favor and call Dwayne Porter at Porter Racing Heads. Talk about your heads and a custom grind to suit the heads YOU have. Forget the Comp cams tech line and forget "off the shelf" grinds if your looking for the BEST cam for YOUR combination.
 
Do you have any flow numbers for those heads? What manifolding (intake & exhaust) are you planning to use?
 
Any reason for the 2x4? Just aesthetics? Tunnel ram?

I don't know how manageable a 2x4 is going to be on the street and keep from killing ET, compared to a Dominator or the like single four, double hitter.

I think a good indy manifold port matched with a Dominator will be more well behaved on the street, if you're planning on driving that rig with 3.91's on a 3 speed with no overdrive.

Mid 3300 stall would be choice, but I don't know about those carbs. 1000cfm twins on a street car, yes, it will work, but you'll be hitting every gas station between tracks with that kind of milage and no O/D. Two accelerator pumps and a lot of runners likes WOT.

Look into Dynamic for a converter. They are built differently and help cure cruising slip on a street car.

That would be the first thing I'd look at. The second would be a possible a500, or go rowin gears with a ball top, for road trips.
 
Here are a few answers to the questions, No I have not had any flow tests done. The intake manifold is an older edelbrock tunnel ram. For exhaust I am looking at a set of TTI headers. I would consider something else if there are any other suggestions.

I will give Dwayne Porter a call this week and see what his thoughts might be. Does he just do heads or do they get involved in camshaft grinding?

The Mopar camshaft is a flat tappet and I want to use a roller cam. I checked the summit listings and didnt find any mopar roller cams. Do they make them?

I dont have to make a decision right now as I am just starting on the car and it is going to be a 2 year or more project.
Thanks for the suggestions and interest so far.
Rodney
 
rod7515 said:
Here are a few answers to the questions, No I have not had any flow tests done. The intake manifold is an older edelbrock tunnel ram. For exhaust I am looking at a set of TTI headers. I would consider something else if there are any other suggestions.

I will give Dwayne Porter a call this week and see what his thoughts might be. Does he just do heads or do they get involved in camshaft grinding?

The Mopar camshaft is a flat tappet and I want to use a roller cam. I checked the summit listings and didnt find any mopar roller cams. Do they make them?

I dont have to make a decision right now as I am just starting on the car and it is going to be a 2 year or more project.
Thanks for the suggestions and interest so far.
Rodney
Click to expand...

Crower makes rollers and they will custom-grind for you. They are very helpful on the phone as well:

http://www.crower.com/
 
crower..crane..howards...bullet...comp...

or any other major cam grinder will grind you any cam you want....roller..flat tappet...
 
On the suggestion of speaking to Dwayne at porters I will probably go to a solid flat tappet cam instead of a roller cam. Still need to decide on grind but will have the shaft nitrited for strength. What grinds and lifts are others using to reach the mid 11's and still be streetable. He had no concerns with the 2x4 setup or gearing and thought 11's wouuld be very reachable with everything else I was planning on using.
Rodney
 
If that" older tunnel ram" was made in the 80's,post some pictures if possible. They made a "street tunnel ram", in that era. Seen it work,it ROCKS.
 
You won't need much of a cam to reach deep 11s in that combo. Personally I feel the static compression is too high. The 4" arm will make the tunnel ram work. No need for higher compression because with iron open chamber heads it leads to detonation and ping problems. I'd rather see a dished piston used and the static left around 9.8:1. With a much smaller cam it will make enough steam to put that car into the 11s. That is if 11s is the goal anyway.
 
i know some like em and some dont ,but hughes engines helped me with a cam in my 360 magnum and i am pleased with the results,i would use them again,all they do is mopar
 
I think Comp's recommendation is a little out there...especially with a stock head. With that said, I think the "lightly ported J heads" are going to be your bottle neck with this combo, and could potentially keep you from your goal of high to mid 11's on a street car....not saying it is impossible, just not the best choice for a stroker.

For what its worth, my 410 stroker is using a smaller off the shelf "street roller" from Comp, the XE286R (248/254 duration). This cam along with some ported Edelbrocks and a 750dp propels my Barracuda into the mid 10's....and I can (and do) drive it all over town.

My point to this is, I don't think you need a monster camshaft to achieve your goal, but I do think you should look into some different heads (JMO). A more street-able cam will be easier on the valve train parts, and less maintenance...and the larger cubes of your stroker will be able to breath with better flowing heads. Going fast is all about getting a good COMBINATION of parts that work well together, and tuning them for optimal performance.
 
rod7515 said:
First let me apologize for this thread if it gets to long. But I need your thoughts to help me make a decision.
I am building (having built) a 360 stroked to a 408. My plans are to drive this on the street about 1000-1500 miles a year to local shows and to take 2 trips a year to shows that are 175 miles away which will include highway driving at 65 mph for 75/85 miles. I also want to race this car 2-3 times a year at a 1/4 mile dragstrip. Would like to run in the mid to high 11's.
The car is a 66 dart, that will be using a 904 trans and 3:91 rear. Motor will be bored .030 with a 10.25:1 compression. The heads are 915J's that have been slightly ported and upgraded to the larger valves. Rockers are rollers at 1.5. Scat crank and rotating assembly. I am planning on running a 2X4 setup with holley 500CFM carbs. I am going with a solid roller cam. I've always used Comp cam products so I contacted their tech line to get some recommendations on choices. The option he threw at me knocked me off my feet, a .260/.268 @ .050 with a .645/.645 lift 110 center line. He thought a 3000/3200 stall converter would be a good match. I thought that would be to much cam for an engine that would be driven as much as I think I would use it. And how would the valves springs hold up with that use. He didnt see any issues but I'm not sure I agree, I was thinking around a .575/.575 lift with a 110 center line and .260/[email protected].
Maybe its not feasible to run mid 11's and drive on the street as much as I want and if thats the case I would settle to run slower but want to be able to drive the car on the street. I am replacing rear springs with SS springs and moving them in for a mini tub change. Also will be adding frame connectors as well. So now your thoughts and recommendations? If I forgot or left out information let me know so I can get the best advice.

Thanks Rodney
Click to expand...

Haha....Please see my post above in regards to this :D
 
The combo sounds feasable. I like the cam they recomended and comp cams are a great company. All of your plans sound good.

The 110 centerline will help your idle quality and also broaden the power band which is great for the street. Don't forget your in the big block cubic inches now.

I run a GVOD. Love it 14 years stong.

I'd rec a modern intake, not a tunnel ram unless you want that look.

DaveBonds said:
I don't know how manageable a 2x4 is going to be on the street and keep from killing ET, compared to a Dominator or the like single four, double hitter.

In theory.. 8 small holes flowing 1000cfm total should create more velocity than 4 huge holes fowing the same. Also the port distribution should be improved depending on the intake design. (at least at WOT)

however, KISS, a single 4 holley HP carb works and it is tough to beat.

Look into Dynamic for a converter. :D They are built differently and help cure cruising slip on a street car.

I run a 3500. You wou'd never know it was anything other than stock if you drove the car. I cruise at 2500 RPM.
Click to expand...


rod7515 said:
On the suggestion of speaking to Dwayne at porters I will probably go to a solid flat tappet cam instead of a roller cam.
Click to expand...

Why?

moper said:
You won't need much of a cam to reach deep 11s in that combo.
Click to expand...

MPP 242/528/112 cam in a 440 will put an A body mid 11's.

flyfish said:
I think Comp's recommendation is a little out there...especially with a stock head. With that said, I think the "lightly ported J heads" are going to be your bottle neck with this combo. , and could potentially keep you from your goal of high to mid 11's on a street car....not saying it is impossible, just not the best choice for a stroker.

For what its worth, my 410 stroker is using a smaller off the shelf "street roller" from Comp, the XE286R (248/254 duration). This cam along with some ported Edelbrocks and a 750dp propels my Barracuda into the mid 10's....and I can (and do) drive it all over town.

My point to this is, I don't think you need a monster camshaft to achieve your goal, but I do think you should look into some different heads (JMO). A more street-able cam will be easier on the valve train parts, and less maintenance...and the larger cubes of your stroker will be able to breath with better flowing heads. Going fast is all about getting a good COMBINATION of parts that work well together, and tuning them for optimal performance.
Click to expand...

Good advise all the way around flyfish but if he runs those heads that biger cam will help to crutch that bottle neck.
 
great feedback so far. After speaking to my engine builder last night he thinks we need to stay with a roller cam. Agreed that the .645 lift seems a bit to much I will probably talk to them about the 2nd recommendation which is a .593/.593 lift with about the same duration and center line. If the heads become a draw back once I get it running I will go for a set of aluminum edelbrocks. As for the intake I will get a pic later tonight and post it. What manufacturer does a good job with headers. Looking for something that fits with having to be wrapped around the torsion bars and not block out the starter. The pistons will be slightly dished and I am leaning toward a scat rotating kit. The forged cranks are almost double the money then the cast steel. Is it really a needed upgrade?

Oh, lastly, what does GVOD mean?
Thanks for everyones input,
Rodney
 
If you decide to use an alloy head then you may need to change your piston choice.
 
I'm going to be using a voodoo 30200741 solid flat tappit cam w howards lifters in my 10:1 416 with aluminum heads that flow around 280 @ .600. .546/.566 lift 243/251 @ .050 lobe separation 110. Time will tell. I'm hoping it goes fine. Was recommended this cam by a reputable builder that I trust. I'm looking to be rite around 500hp/500tq
 
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af270/rod7515/66%20Dart/edelbrock2X4_zpsddccb41f.jpg


Pic of the Edelbrock 2X4 set intake I hope to use. It looks like they may have the top on backwards. Im thinking the lowest should be on the front and the highest one should go on the back. the number on this intake is a TR5. Guess I'll do some checkin on this intake. I bought this including both carbs and linkage for very little so if I have to change direction its not that big of a lose. I want this set up to work because it would be a wow factor! I'm sure its going to need a hood scoop once this is on. lol
Rodney
 
Have a similar Weiand T/R ,to go on my Magnum. TR5, a good one. If you use that 286 roller(248/[email protected]),and a 4" arm,it should work. A new world in tuning ,yes. Be patient. That's a decent combo. (Still would like more headwork,myself).
 
rod7515 said:
What manufacturer does a good job with headers. Looking for something that fits with having to be wrapped around the torsion bars and not block out the starter. The pistons will be slightly dished and I am leaning toward a scat rotating kit. The forged cranks are almost double the money then the cast steel. Is it really a needed upgrade?

Oh, lastly, what does GVOD mean?
Thanks for everyones input,
Rodney
Click to expand...

TTI Headers

YEs forged

GVOD = Gear Vendors Overdrive

swinger340 said:
I'm going to be using a voodoo 30200741 solid flat tappit cam w howards lifters in my 10:1 416 with aluminum heads that flow around 280 @ .600. .546/.566 lift 243/251 @ .050 lobe separation 110. Time will tell. I'm hoping it goes fine. Was recommended this cam by a reputable builder that I trust. I'm looking to be rite around 500hp/500tq
Click to expand...

I had eddy RPms with a very similar cam. 10.5:1 and ported eddy's. 503hp @ crank.
 
rod7515 said:
great feedback so far. After speaking to my engine builder last night he thinks we need to stay with a roller cam. Agreed that the .645 lift seems a bit to much I will probably talk to them about the 2nd recommendation which is a .593/.593 lift with about the same duration and center line. If the heads become a draw back once I get it running I will go for a set of aluminum edelbrocks. As for the intake I will get a pic later tonight and post it. What manufacturer does a good job with headers. Looking for something that fits with having to be wrapped around the torsion bars and not block out the starter. The pistons will be slightly dished and I am leaning toward a scat rotating kit. The forged cranks are almost double the money then the cast steel. Is it really a needed upgrade?

Oh, lastly, what does GVOD mean?
Thanks for everyones input,
Rodney
Click to expand...

Ok, let us know what happens when your builder tries to put valve springs and rockers on there....should be interesting....:happy1:
 
For pistons - I'd say go dished and keep the static lower. Then you'll be ready for better heads and compression isn't as big a deal for your needs.
I think if you want to stay with Comp then something like the XR274R is more appropriate. Unless the ports are really well done (and completely ported) anything more than that is probably a waste of lift and the extra duration will hurt the low and midranges to some extent. That family of lobes uses a milder spring too which will help the street duty. You will still need to cut the spring seats and guides to get it to work but that's nothing out of the ordinary.
 
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